Accuracy questions

[1337cshacker 0]

Can some good shooters post they're results as far as accuracy for 50 yards, 100 yards? Interested in selling my crap Yugo SKS and getting a saiga. Want to know if it will be worth it. Been having LOTS of problems with my yugo, everything from accuracy to expensive boxer ammo, to popped primers. Thanks!

 

Also, Do you need to do 922r conversions for a 20 round magazine? Or only 30?

Edited August 17, 2009 by 1337cshacker

[JBski 6]

From around 80 yards or so

 

You have to be 922r compliant if the firearm will accept magazines with a greater capacity than the factory 10.

[Teaser 0]

See this topic:

 

Saiga accuracy

 

Tip: Try to buy locally if you can. You then may get the chance to see the "Factory certificate", for the rifle that you are looking at. Your mileage my vary.

Edited August 17, 2009 by Teaser

[imarangemaster 315]

Saigas use hammer forged AK 103 barrels, instead of used, broach cut surplus barrels. Youy figure it out. My certificate says 81mm from factory before conversion and it gets 2 MOA after Tapco G2 FCG and conversion. GET A SAIGA!!!!!!!

[Sharker524 0]

My x39 shot a 1/2" group at 25yds when I was sighting it in...

 

I'd expect 3-4moa out of any Saiga, and be happy with whatever I got in between. The accuracy thread on here supports this.

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

For the x39 about 3MOA from a rest. The 308 is giving a bit under 2MOA. Ammo is the key here though find what works best and stick with it. Silver Bear is a good all around choice for both of mine but your mileage may vary. Brass will almost always be more accurate since it seals better in the chamber but its expensive and there are always exceptions.

[1337cshacker 0]

WOW, Nice replies, and nice shooting JBski! My sks got anywhere from 5-7 inch groups at 100 yards. Won't tell that to the shop I re-sell it to. Anywho, what are dimples?

 

If I own some 30 rounders that are unassembled, is that legal? I would only assemble when all hell breaks loose, you know.... End Game/revolution type scenario. I'm not starting/advocating, but It's coming. Would just shoot it now, and hopefully forever, with the 10 rounders. Good idea or bad? Not looking into all this conversion stuff, would keep it all stock. Might convert to accept AK mags but again, would keep them unassembled. If you converted to AK mags, would you HAVE to use them, or would it still take the stock 10 rounder so I could go with the same plan?

 

922r won't mean crap in a end game scenario.

 

Basically I'm into the saiga because I know it's reliability (and now accuracy) is allot better than a SKS. I would not trust my current SKS in combat 100 rounds in it would quit going bang! My BIGGEST fear is all the preparation then an epic failure. Anyway I am are pretty disappointed in them. The only thing I really like was how many stripper clips I could shove in my bandoleer, 300!! Would be hard pressed to strap 300 rounds in magazines to your body, very ergonomic ya? Lol. That firing pin was the worst idea ever... Siminov actually designed it with a different pin and it had a spring, why they changed that is beyond me, and that change effectively ruined the weapon. I'm not the only sks'r with these problems either. Murray spring pin or not problems persisted. Murray is actually giving me a refund since his American made crap did not work.

 

I recently sold a 12ga saiga. Lost 50 bucks on it but it was worth it to shoot it a few times. Never even broke it in fully. MAN I loved that thing, there is no other gun I think other than the new A10 that can dominate the 150m battlefield like that thing, especially with a 20 round drum loaded 00/slug every other. Bring out the bump fire! Talk about OVERKILL. You can legally have that 12ga setup, but 922r will give you problems with a 762 in that setup. THAT MAKES SENSE. Lol... Reading here http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/ that the SPAS 12 is an assault rifle, when it's a freaking semi-auto shotty. WTF. Calling an SKS with detachable mag an assault rifle, when SKS definition MEANS Siminov Self-loading CARBINE! THAT MAKES SENSE!! This stuff needs to STOP. Reform now!

 

On a side note I have been mailing the Bureau of Firearms, essentially telling them how difficult they make it for Americans to defend themselves anymore, and to clean up THEY'RE act with all these unconstitutional laws. We should have anything but explosives/full autos, and no full autos just for the sake of in-experienced shooters. I would defiantly kill myself with a fully auto, LOL. Watch me get swat teamed for being an al-quida or something retarded cia controlled.

 

WELL BRING IT! I am not afraid of your obama crack troops coming for our weapons! Nor are allot of people I know.

 

Well I just had to rant there, sorry :D

Edited August 18, 2009 by 1337cshacker

[imarangemaster 315]

Why limit yourself when 922 compliance is so easy? If you don't want to convert you can do a tapco t6 with pistol grip, tapcohandguard, tapco hammer, and us mag followers.

[Azrial 1,091]

...922r won't mean crap in a end game scenario.

Making a otherwise legitimate firearm subject to legal confiscation is a foolish move. I urge you to reconsider.

 

a side note I have been mailing the Bureau of Firearms, essentially telling them how difficult they make it for Americans to defend themselves anymore, and to clean up THEY'RE act with all these unconstitutional laws. We should have anything but explosives/full autos, and no full autos just for the sake of in-experienced shooters. I would defiantly kill myself with a fully auto, LOL. Watch me get swat teamed for being an al-quida or something retarded cia controlled.

 

WELL BRING IT! I am not afraid of your obama crack troops coming for our weapons! Nor are allot of people I know.

 

Well I just had to rant there, sorry :D

Well, I hope that they are getting all your letters, the name of the agency is the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms.

 

They do make rulings, but not law. They are not the ones that you need write to regarding oppressive firearm laws. That would be your Representatives and Congressmen.

 

Full auto is legal in the USA, some states prohibit them, but that has nothing to do with the Federal law. Protecting "inexperienced shooters" should not be cause for restricting my rights. I am a big proponent of natural selection.

[jimdigriz 580]

On a side note I have been mailing the Bureau of Firearms, essentially telling them how difficult they make it for Americans to defend themselves anymore, and to clean up THEY'RE act with all these unconstitutional laws.

 

 

You are almost certainly wasting your time. They exult in making it hard for Americans to defend themselves, and want everyone to have to rely on the state for protection. They are probably pinning your letters to the dart boards and having a good laugh. I would do everything to stay off their radar. They are, after all, the ones who murdered Sammy Weaver and six of the Branch Davidians, and got away with it.

 

Jim

[1337cshacker 0]

Jim, Your right, But I feel I have to try. It's my duty as an American to keep a watch on government. SCREW they're radar jim, YOU CANNOT BE AFRAID, or they win. Not being mean but everyone needs to GROW SOME and stand up to these criminals. The more we do nothing, they more they will do. "The amount of tyranny you live under WILL BE the amount you ACCEPT" - Ben Frank. I accept this BS not!!!

 

Azrial, I am not breaking any laws by having disassembled hi-cap magazines, nor will I apply them to my weapon. Cali residents can lawfully do this for when they go out of state to nevada to shoot, and are sure to disassemble again before entering the state. Furthermore, they will be AK mags, and the modification to apply it to my future saiga will not be completed until after End Game arrives, when the constitution is totally dismantled and it is war in the streets. My saiga and the mag it will accept will be STOCK until then, then it won't matter, I would say trust me but you don't. Furthermore I will slowly buy the American mods needed to make it legal anyway, but again, will not apply them. KEEP IT ALL STOCK I will.

 

Google End Game Azrial. Allot of things, the debt on your house/credit card/car, 922r, etc, WILL NOT MATTER. There will be no structure in the system to enforce them, it will just be HELL IN THE STREETS. Obama stazi will be everywhere going door to door confiscating weapons of ANY type anyway. They will expect resistance from any gun owner, but will do it anyway.

 

The atrny Gen already has the "legal standing" to ban any weapon he chooses, thanks to executive orders bush and bill signed in. The dems/repubs work together in secret, but publicly oppose each other.

Edited August 18, 2009 by 1337cshacker

[jimdigriz 580]

Jim, Your right, But I feel I have to try. It's my duty as an American to keep a watch on government. SCREW they're radar jim, YOU CANNOT BE AFRAID, or they win.

 

There is nothing shameful or cowardly about being afraid of armed gangs that can kill murder you with impunity. I consider it completely rational. I can prepare to fight them if they try to injure me, but, just the same, I'd rather not attract their attention in the first place. Because I'm likely to lose if it comes to a fight, even though I may take some with me. And I'd rather my wife not end up like Vicki Weaver, or my child like one of the gassed and burned-alive Branch Davidian kids.

 

Good luck to you, whatever your course.

 

Jim

Edited August 18, 2009 by Jim Digriz

[1337cshacker 0]

Thanks and Godspeed Jim. Though, I will continue to stand up for my country in any way I can. The crimes must be brought to the criminals attention, by everyone. They cannot kill EVERYONE. This is the problem we have. Davidan's family will be avenged by the American People when the time is right.

 

Anyway, back to topic.

 

The question of the saiga still accepting stock mags, after the AK mag mod has been done to it, is still open. Will it still take stock mags after the mod? Is the mod noticeable to detect?

 

What if you did have the mod and un-assembled mags, still a 922r violation?

 

I'm really NOT interested in all of the mods. The monte carlo stock is fine, actually, preferable in my arms, being used to the SKS design. Not looking to dump ass-loads of cash into this. More than less swapping the SKS in value to a shop and taking the difference with cash to get the saiga. That is my objective while being lawful, and it will be. I have no interest in violating, even, unconstitutional laws that should not exist.

Edited August 18, 2009 by 1337cshacker

[jimdigriz 580]

What if you did have the mod and un-assembled mags, still a 922r violation?

 

I don't know about the law in regard to dis-assembled mags. I would just say get some good 30 and 40 round com-block mags, wipe them clean of fingerprints, and cache them in several locations (not in or near your yard). Then, if the SHTF, as you expect, go dig them up.

 

Did you ever think about moving away from the PRC to friendlier places (regarding guns)? I know, most people have plenty of reasons to stay, even in liberty-hating states like CA.

Edited August 18, 2009 by Jim Digriz

[1337cshacker 0]

What if you did have the mod and un-assembled mags, still a 922r violation?

 

I don't know about the law in regard to dis-assembled mags. I would just say get some good 30 and 40 round com-block mags, wipe them clean of fingerprints, and cache them in several locations (not in or near your yard). Then, if the SHTF, as you expect, go dig them up.

 

Did you ever think about moving away from the PRC to friendlier places (regarding guns)? I know, most people have plenty of reasons to stay, even in liberty-hating states like CA.

Thanks jim, sounds like a good idea. Though, what I am going to wind up doing is getting 1 saiga, all stock, with the 10 round mags. Then I will get a REAL ak as well that can already take the 30 round mag. WHEN the SHTF I will mod the saiga to take the 30 rounds, but not until then. Will be in total compliance with the law, as long as the law EXIST.

 

I live in alabama, we are pretty gun friendly here. Every 16 year old here has a shotgun, and our crime rates are VERY low compared to states with the BS laws like cali. Since the DC gun ban was lifted, slightly, the crime rates have dropped allot. This should show the real criminals their laws only impede us from protecting ourselves.

 

I want to thank everyone for the warnings and help. When it does hit the fan, you all do NOT fight alone.

 

We will win!! Hopefully we will win with our first amendment, before our second.

Edited August 19, 2009 by 1337cshacker

[PRISONSHANK 70]

[Vultite 57]

with run of the mill russian ammo, I usually get around 6" at 50 yards off shoulder standing. about 8" at 100 off shoulder standing (irons). If replaced with better ammo and sandbagged with irons, still not much improvement, about 5-6" at 100 but no fly-aways and thats good enuff for me, no FTF or light strikes ect.

Edited August 19, 2009 by Vultite

[1337cshacker 0]

Vultite, sounds like you got one of the less accurate ones, but hell, if there was a guy at 200m you would hit him. Sounds good :D

HA, My grave might be sealed, but there is no better way to go than RESISTING corrupt government. You think you are so safe sitting back doing NOTHING. We will see how far that gets you slave!!

 

I died on my feet. You will still die, but on your knees. Good job PHAILURE.

 

Your sig is also ironic since you do NOTHING.

 

NOTHING!

Edited August 20, 2009 by 1337cshacker

[555JM 10]

We think alike, cshacker.

 

My unconverted 7.62x39 Siagas both shoot about 3" to 4" groups at 100 (well really 93) yards using Wolf ammo, iron sights, old eyes and a rest. The .223 Saiga seems to shoot into a 2" to 3" groupsize with the same parameters. The heavy trigger pull of the unconverted guns takes some getting used to, but fortunately all 3 feel the same and they are consistent.

 

Like you, I have no intention to convert to the AK config. For the $, I would rather have an extra unconverted Saiga and some ammo stashed at a separate location than a single converted Saiga.

 

My understanding with the 7.62x39 is that you need to install a bullet guide and trim the magazine catch to get a Saiga to reliably use 20-30 round milsurp magazines. Bullet guides are available from Dinzag for around $30 and aren't hard to install. There are videos & instructions here and on the Dinzag site to help. The Saiga magazines have a raised lip on the front that acts as a bullet guide, milsurp magazines do not. Putting the guide in will keep the nose of the bullet from jamming against the bottom of the barrel when using milsurp. It has no effect when using the Saiga magazines.

 

When installing a milsurp mag in an unmodified Saiga, the magazine latch won't lock the mag in. To correct this, the latch has to be trimmed slightly with a dremel or a file just enough to let your military magazine lock in. Once trimmed, the Saiga magazine is reportedly still useable, it just fits a bit looser. I'm holding off on doing this until the SHTF. Like you, the 10 round magazines are all I need for recreational shooting. Lord willing, they are all I'll ever need.

 

The caveat is that, by themselves, the above two mods will NOT make your Saiga 922r compliant. But your take on 922r is the same as mine. I don't know if any of this applies to the .223 Saiga.

 

FWIW and Good Luck.

Bob

Edited August 23, 2009 by 555JM

[1337cshacker 0]

Great info Bob and thanks for it. Unfortunately (well not for me) I am going to get a AMD-65. I'm taking the role of close to short-mid quarters because I have cat-like reflexes and quick target acquisition. Where I live this is also practical if anything were to happen (or when SHTF.) The shorter AMD should allow me to head mount my Night Vision Cougars and use irons with stock folded in. Pretty sick My dad is a better shot and will take the role of long range. Wanting him to get a Romak3 but we need to keep the same type of ammo, so he will probably get a saiga un-modded or century 762x39. He's leaning toward the century, don't blame him either.

 

Thanks all this topic is done unless anyone has more to add.

Edited August 23, 2009 by 1337cshacker