Paladin_Hammer 8 Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 I've got a line on a .308. Here is what it has: US Made Pistol Grip and Buttstock. G2 Trigger. US made gas piston. So it is 922® compliant. It comes with two factory magazines. Issues: He Krylon painted the forward grip, pistol grip, and buttstock. He also drilled holes in the forward grip to vent it. There is a muzzle brake that looks to have been welded on (which is unusual since I don't live in Massganistan or the PRK). The welded on brake looks to be improperly aligned, and while it does not block the barrel, it does look bubba'd. The whole setup will cost me $500. Is this a good deal or should I look elsewhere? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kmcintosh78 1 Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 My new 308 cost $495. Bandsaw off the brake, and do the paint how you want it. Why not? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paladin_Hammer 8 Posted August 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 My new 308 cost $495. Bandsaw off the brake, and do the paint how you want it. Why not? Is that new with a PG, G2 Trigger and all other manner of 922® compliance? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vbrtrmn 167 Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 Per bandsawing off the brake, that's about the stupidest suggestion ever; have you ever heard of a muzzle crown? If you have a barrel cut down, you'll need to re-crown the muzzle, a smith will charge about $25-$50 to cut and recrown. The problem is who the hell knows what else he did to fuck up that rifle. You could have the muzzle brake de-welded, but honestly you might wind up spending much more money fixing up his fuck-ups than it is worth. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paladin_Hammer 8 Posted August 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 Per bandsawing off the brake, that's about the stupidest suggestion ever; have you ever heard of a muzzle crown? If you have a barrel cut down, you'll need to re-crown the muzzle, a smith will charge about $25-$50 to cut and recrown. The problem is who the hell knows what else he did to fuck up that rifle. You could have the muzzle brake de-welded, but honestly you might wind up spending much more money fixing up his fuck-ups than it is worth. Is there anyway to remove that brake without welding or band-sawing? Could I just try and grind it off? Or is that too risky? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vbrtrmn 167 Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 Is there anyway to remove that brake without welding or band-sawing? Could I just try and grind it off? Or is that too risky? You can _try_ to grind it off, but this falls back to the problem of how badly did the dbag who's selling it to you already fuck up the rifle. I'd rather spend the money on something I know isn't an absolute piece of shit and build it out myself. I understand that you're getting some compliance parts, but honestly, it sounds like you're buying a Ford Pinto with some fancy rims and spray paint. If you're really considering buying that rifle, I'd HIGHLY recommend taking it to a gunsmith before hand and having it inspected. If the seller won't allow it, tell him to shove off. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paladin_Hammer 8 Posted August 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 Is there anyway to remove that brake without welding or band-sawing? Could I just try and grind it off? Or is that too risky? You can _try_ to grind it off, but this falls back to the problem of how badly did the dbag who's selling it to you already fuck up the rifle. I'd rather spend the money on something I know isn't an absolute piece of shit and build it out myself. I understand that you're getting some compliance parts, but honestly, it sounds like you're buying a Ford Pinto with some fancy rims and spray paint. If you're really considering buying that rifle, I'd HIGHLY recommend taking it to a gunsmith before hand and having it inspected. If the seller won't allow it, tell him to shove off. All good points. I do know that it shoots. He provided a youtube video of him shooting it, he also addressed me by my e-mail address in the video, so I know it WORKS. But as far as his handy work, you got me. What's attractive is the price, and that it has the conversion while still costing less than one should these days (a year ago this thing would have probably been worth $450). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vbrtrmn 167 Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 All good points. I do know that it shoots. He provided a youtube video of him shooting it, he also addressed me by my e-mail address in the video, so I know it WORKS. But as far as his handy work, you got me. What's attractive is the price, and that it has the conversion while still costing less than one should these days (a year ago this thing would have probably been worth $450). Are you trying to convince yourself that this is a good idea? If so, I've got a bridge to sell you, most of the locals call it the "Golden Gate", some say it is actually made of gold, I'm only asking for $5000, sorry cash only. "a year ago this thing would have probably been worth $450"... so now it is worth $500, because it is probably more fucked up? I'm confused. You've seen the frankenstein job he's done on the outside, WTF do you think he's done to the inside? Seriously dude, how much time and money are you planning on fixing up this mess? How much experience do you have fixing firearms? Are you 100% certain that this one isn't beyond repair? (all rhetorical questions) Spend your money on whatever you want, but dude... $500 is a decent amount of cash, personally, I'd rather put that in savings and get a brand new S-308 and do it right, rather than try to fix someone's butcher job. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gtnichols 51 Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 Grind it off carefully and you will never know it was there. Sometimes people get carried away with paint, what can you do,.. it's an AK right? as long as the action is unmolested and hasn't seen 1000 rounds of corrosive ammo without cleaning, sounds like a deal, maybe talk 'em down because that thingy welded on the end is crooked,.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paladin_Hammer 8 Posted August 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 (edited) Update here: I managed to get some pictures of the insides. I took them myself when I told him I wanted an expert to look at them. Of course I don't actually know a real-life Saiga expert, so I'm going to let you guys be the judge here. Below will be 12 (yes, 12) pictures of the rifle in question. The insides. The insides without the recoil spring. Here is something disturbing. The gas piston is missing a lot of paint. He said that he painted it and that it's come off since then. Not a good sign. Finally the whole rifle. So what do you guys think? Still screwy? Edited August 28, 2009 by Paladin_Hammer Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vbrtrmn 167 Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 The brake is definitely canted, I wonder if it is a defect (factory) or if it is something that dummy screwed up. If the threads are screwed up, you'll need to remove the gas block and have the barrel re-cut, re-crowned, and re-threaded. I'm not sure how much re-threading a barrel would cost, you can rent the die, tat and handle from Dinzag Arms; looks like he has the crowing tool, as well. http://www.dinzagarms.com/tools/tkr.html http://www.dinzagarms.com/tools/crown.html The paint flaking on the piston could be due to the Krylon paint. The insides look okay, but it is hard to tell, due to the extremely low quality of the pictures. What catches my eye is the missing paint on the front sight block, in the first picture it looks like it is chipped off or scraped off. This kind of tells me a sad story of how he treats his firearms. I don't know you at all, so I guess the main question is: How handy are you? Are you ready to possibly have to remove the front sight block? Do you have the tools to potentially cut the barrel? Have you ever used a die to cut threads? Would you be comfortable re-crowning barrel? Are you going to want to strip all the shit Krylon paint off the rifle and either duracoat or parkerize it? If you haven't done work like this, before, are you going to want to experiment on this weapon? Again, all rhetorical questions In the end it is all ... How much is your time worth? Have a good one! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodes1968 1,638 Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 Some good points, first its an AK and designed to withstand this type of guy. Its a 21" barrel so you have a lot of room to fix this IF you have to shorten and re-crown. The paint is no technical big deal. What kind of group did it shoot, if its decent then its likely everything inside is ok. Lastly you stand to save about 200.00 taking off about 75.00 to fix that FSB, more if that's wood furniture and you want to keep it. He seems to not be hiding anything. A suggestion, call a gun smith in the area and offer to pay him a few bucks to do a visual once over on the rifle and if it looks good to him go for it if you feel lucky. Personally I would pass unless I could check it out in person. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
csspecs 1,987 Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 My fear would be how that got welded on the front sight block. If he gas welded it on the barrel may be warped. I have mig welded things on my front sight block but I have the sense to take it off my barrel first. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paladin_Hammer 8 Posted August 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 He said it's welded. But looking at it, and once I felt it, it's hard to tell if it wasn't just threaded on there. It does not feel welded, and it doesn't look welded. Therefor, could it just be some bad threads? Either way I have till Friday to buy it or he sells it to the next guy in line. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darth AkSarBen 20 Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 On a Saiga .308 the front sight block is so far forward, from those I have handled, that it would be impossible to put a decent flash suppressor on there. It has a unique taper on it on the last little bit. Brian at Dinzag Arms, can remove the FSB, bore it out, on the back side, mill in another pin further back and reset the FSB back far enough to get a good thread on the end. Seems that this had no such work and maybe just a trial of getting a flash suppressor on there, maybe some welding. Should be a puddle somewhere that shows the weld. Can't hardly do it without. Brian can cut the barrel back a bit, re-crown, and then put on a FSB with brake if you want, but will cost some. Personally I'd cut the barrel down anyway. 19" wold be a nice compromise between the 22" and the 16". The paint is immaterial. The flaking of pain on the stuff is immaterial. It's kind of a rough firearm as new, let alone some other "business" done to it. Life is short enough without un-necessary aggravations. If you don't feel comfortable, then just buy a new rifle and go from there. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vermiform 26 Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 The brake is definitely canted, I wonder if it is a defect (factory) or if it is something that dummy screwed up. If the threads are screwed up, you'll need to remove the gas block and have the barrel re-cut, re-crowned, and re-threaded. I'm not sure how much re-threading a barrel would cost, you can rent the die, tat and handle from Dinzag Arms; looks like he has the crowing tool, as well. One question, when did Saiga 308s start shipping with threaded bbls in the first place. I'm guessing the reason this TOOL welded the break on to begin with is because he wanted a muzzle break on it and didn't want to take the time to move the FSB back and thread the barrel. He butted that break up against the crown and welded it to the barrel, crooked as fuck, so his welding skills can't be that good to begin with. I would bet good money that rifle will have to be recrowned at the very least. No telling what damage he did to the rifle with all that heat. The best thing to do for that rifle is shorten the barrel to 16" and remount the FSB provided it isnt buggered all to hell when u break the weld. IMHO the rifle is worth much less than he is asking for. As other wise members have stated in this thread, anyone fucking stupid enough to do that to the front end can't be trusted to not have buggered up the ass end. I wouldn't give a penny over $200 and plan on doing some extensive work to it. Screw taking it to a gunsmith unless it is a gunsmith that knows AKs in which I myself would be too embarrassed to do anyhow. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paladin_Hammer 8 Posted August 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 (edited) SCORE!!!!!!!!! After telling him that I wouldn't buy it if the muzzle brake was really welded to it, he promised to remove it before I buy it! He's going to heat it up and remove it tonight. He also is going to sand off the paint on the gas piston to at least make it more uniform, for ten bucks I can put a decent coat of something on it. I think. What exactly do they paint firearms with? Would it cost more than twenty bucks? I'm just looking to re-do the gas piston mind you, the rest will come later. What do you guys think I should do with it once I pick it up? He's had it for nearly two years, and has ran about 200 rounds through it. All types of ammo (corrosive crap, and good Remington and Winchester). So at least the barrel is broken in. I'm thinking I'll go and put some rounds through it, and see how it does at 50 and 100 yards. Then maybe I'll order some stuff from Dinzag. I'm thinking I'll re-crown it. Maybe I should take it to a gunsmith for that? Edited August 26, 2009 by Paladin_Hammer Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fxhart 14 Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 I think Peach State Gun sis selling them for $499 new (add shipping & transfer fees to that). This gun looks way to bubba'd to me. I would rather buy the new one and invest another $150 into it... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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