kwesi 39 Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 (edited) Needing advice! I'm going to purchase a 10/32 tap drill bit/threader so I can drill a hole thru the existing hole left over from my DIY trigger guard conversion. I need to add a screw to secure the Saiga internal block that the folding mechanism attaches to. My buddy has a drill but neither of us have tapped any metal. My questions are: 1. is their any specific rpm's we should set the drill at? 2. should we use any lube when drilling or threading the home? 3. the spare screws came with the internal block - do we measure from tip to head of screw and drill that exact length? 4. any other tips or suggestions? Thanks and remember that I'm the guy that lost the BHO spring and the shepperds crook when they flew out during the initial conversion Edited October 1, 2009 by kwesi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hobbyshooter 59 Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 Don't tap with a drill. Tap by hand as slow as you can go. Lube wont be necessary. You are running it in like a screw, cutting threads with each turn. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HillBilly2 9 Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 Once the tap starts go about a quarter to half turn and then back up enough to break the chip and then go again. You don't just screw the tap in like a screw. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lone Star Arms 2,047 Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 Needing advice! I'm going to purchase a 10/32 tap drill bit/threader so I can drill a hole thru the existing hole left over from my DIY trigger guard conversion. I need to add a screw to secure the Saiga internal block that the folding mechanism attaches to. My buddy has a drill but neither of us have tapped any metal. My questions are: 1. is their any specific rpm's we should set the drill at? 2. should we use any lube when drilling or threading the home? 3. the spare screws came with the internal block - do we measure from tip to head of screw and drill that exact length? 4. any other tips or suggestions? Thanks and remember that I'm the guy that lost the BHO spring and the shepperds crook when they flew out during the initial conversion Don't attempt to use a drill to tap. Do it carefully, by hand. If you don't have a handle, use a vice grip, Just make sure your tap stays straight and apply steady even pressure as you turn the tap to thread the hole. WS 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lone Star Arms 2,047 Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 Once the tap starts go about a quarter to half turn and then back up enough to break the chip and then go again. You don't just screw the tap in like a screw. +10 on the avatar!!! WS Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kwesi 39 Posted October 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 Thanks for everyone's tips! My question about the drill speed was only referring to drilling the hole first. I am supposed to drill the hole then tap by hand, right? Assuming this is correct, any tips on using the drill press & depth? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sapper1371usmc 107 Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 (edited) Thanks for everyone's tips! My question about the drill speed was only referring to drilling the hole first. I am supposed to drill the hole then tap by hand, right? Assuming this is correct, any tips on using the drill press & depth? I would set the drill to a low to medium speed. No need to get all crazy when drilling and end up drilling the hole crooked. As for depth, what you can do is by using your screw, place it along side the end of your drill bit with the head of the screw contacting the bit. Where the screw stops, place a strip of masking tape about a 32nds or a 16th of an inch above the screw on the bit. As for the lube, it never hurts, especially when you tap for threads. It makes cutting easier as does a new tap. As one of the previous posters stated, when you start to tap, go in a little then back it out, and repeat until you reach the bottom. Once you feel resistance on the tap, STOP, or you can snap the tap off inside the hole and it will be hell trying to remove it. Edited October 1, 2009 by sapper1371usmc Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sapper1371usmc 107 Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 Also, I forgot to mention, if you drill the depth of the screw, you will need to use a bottoming tap to ensure the threads go all the way to the bottom. You can get these at NAPA. Or once you start all the threads with the standard tap, you can find a nut that will fit that size, screw it on until you are above the angled starter portion of the tap and then use a grinder to remove all the material up to the nut so that your threads go all the way down. Or you can just drill the holes deeper. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kwesi 39 Posted October 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 Also, I forgot to mention, if you drill the depth of the screw, you will need to use a bottoming tap to ensure the threads go all the way to the bottom. You can get these at NAPA. Or once you start all the threads with the standard tap, you can find a nut that will fit that size, screw it on until you are above the angled starter portion of the tap and then use a grinder to remove all the material up to the nut so that your threads go all the way down. Or you can just drill the holes deeper. Thanks although I'm not sure I'm grasping the above post..yet. I forgot to mention that I have installed the Tapco SAW pistol grip so hopefully the screw head will not interfere with the pistol grip. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sapper1371usmc 107 Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 (edited) Also, I forgot to mention, if you drill the depth of the screw, you will need to use a bottoming tap to ensure the threads go all the way to the bottom. You can get these at NAPA. Or once you start all the threads with the standard tap, you can find a nut that will fit that size, screw it on until you are above the angled starter portion of the tap and then use a grinder to remove all the material up to the nut so that your threads go all the way down. Or you can just drill the holes deeper. Thanks although I'm not sure I'm grasping the above post..yet. I forgot to mention that I have installed the Tapco SAW pistol grip so hopefully the screw head will not interfere with the pistol grip. A standard tap will not make threads all the way down to the bottom of the hole, so you will need to buy a bottom tap as well so that you will give the screw enough thread to bite into. Now I dont know how long your screw is but im guessing its less than 1/2" long so if you use a standard tap you wont have alot of threads in your holes. Its up to you though. You might not need threads all the way to the bottom since this is just a secondary place to attach the adapter. I say go spend another $4 dollars on a bottom tap and be done with it. Also when you start to tap, use the standard tap first, then follow up with a bottom tap. It is much easier to start tapping and ensure that you are going straight in with the standard tap. Just my two cents. Edited October 1, 2009 by sapper1371usmc Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kwesi 39 Posted October 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 Also, I forgot to mention, if you drill the depth of the screw, you will need to use a bottoming tap to ensure the threads go all the way to the bottom. You can get these at NAPA. Or once you start all the threads with the standard tap, you can find a nut that will fit that size, screw it on until you are above the angled starter portion of the tap and then use a grinder to remove all the material up to the nut so that your threads go all the way down. Or you can just drill the holes deeper. Thanks although I'm not sure I'm grasping the above post..yet. I forgot to mention that I have installed the Tapco SAW pistol grip so hopefully the screw head will not interfere with the pistol grip. A standard tap will not make threads all the way down to the bottom of the hole, so you will need to buy a bottom tap as well so that you will give the screw enough thread to bite into. Now I dont know how long your screw is but im guessing its less than 1/2" long so if you use a standard tap you wont have alot of threads in your holes. Its up to you though. You might not need threads all the way to the bottom since this is just a secondary place to attach the adapter. I say go spend another $4 dollars on a bottom tap and be done with it. Also when you start to tap, use the standard tap first, then follow up with a bottom tap. It is much easier to start tapping and ensure that you are going straight in with the standard tap. Just my two cents. Thanks again for the detailed help...much appreciated! Good news: I called a mechanic I've used for over 20 years to schedule an appointment for my wife's vehicle and thought I'd ask him a question and he said he wants to do it for me given all the business I've sent his way. He does it all the time! I'm gonna take him up on his generous offer and watch him & learn something new! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kwesi 39 Posted October 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 Where would you guys recommend tapping a 2nd screw for securing the internal block? I realize Greg at CSS says I only need one but if all goes well I might opt for a 2nd. I haven't removed the Tapco SAW pistol grip to see if we can go under it. Maybe that's the only option? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Raoul_Duke 113 Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 Have you seen this thread? Specifically ripper1's posts, more specifically post #11. I drill and tap 5 holes in mine. 2 in each side and one in the bottom rear. Overkill maybe, but that block ain't going nowhere . . . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kwesi 39 Posted October 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 (edited) Have you seen this thread? Specifically ripper1's posts, more specifically post #11. I drill and tap 5 holes in mine. 2 in each side and one in the bottom rear. Overkill maybe, but that block ain't going nowhere . . . Great thread..thanks for the link! I've got the Saiga block which is slightly different from the one in the thread. Did you have to trim anything off the SAW pistol grip when you used the hole left by the original trigger? Looks like that is the most secure spot. Do you have a photo of that 5th screw in place? Edited October 2, 2009 by kwesi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Raoul_Duke 113 Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 Have you seen this thread? Specifically ripper1's posts, more specifically post #11. I drill and tap 5 holes in mine. 2 in each side and one in the bottom rear. Overkill maybe, but that block ain't going nowhere . . . Great thread..thanks for the link! I've got the Saiga block which is slightly different from the one in the thread. Did you have to trim anything off the SAW pistol grip when you used the hole left by the original trigger? Looks like that is the most secure spot. Do you have a photo of that 5th screw in place? No problem. And no, I don't recall having to trim the grip, but if you do, it won't be much. And on that 5th screw, it's an 8-32, right behind the PG. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kwesi 39 Posted October 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 From the photo you've got a lot more room than I have. From the edge of the pistol grip to the outside edge of the existing hole is less than 2/16". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
towerofpower93 22 Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 I just finished tapping my receiver for a magwell (literally 2 hours ago) and it was my first time drilling/taping a firearm. GO SLOW AND DOUBLE/TRIPLE/QUADRUPLE CHECK THE TAP IS STRAIGHT. I almost jacked it up b/c I don't have a vise. Good luck. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kwesi 39 Posted October 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 We will be using a drill press and will go slow! Here is a photo showing the little space I have. I'd rather not cut anything off the grip if we can avoid it. Any ideas? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kwesi 39 Posted October 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2009 2nd photo of grip placement Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Raoul_Duke 113 Posted October 3, 2009 Report Share Posted October 3, 2009 Personally, I would just use a small round file and put a notch for the screw head to fit in. But if you don't want to do that, just don't put a screw in there. It's not really necessary, I just did it because it can't hurt and could only help. And it fills the empty hole. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kwesi 39 Posted October 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2009 Personally, I would just use a small round file and put a notch for the screw head to fit in. But if you don't want to do that, just don't put a screw in there. It's not really necessary, I just did it because it can't hurt and could only help. And it fills the empty hole. I was initially going to only put 1 screw in on the bottom as that is the thickest spot on the block. Sounds like using the other 4 holes will be ample. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Raoul_Duke 113 Posted October 3, 2009 Report Share Posted October 3, 2009 Personally, I would just use a small round file and put a notch for the screw head to fit in. But if you don't want to do that, just don't put a screw in there. It's not really necessary, I just did it because it can't hurt and could only help. And it fills the empty hole. I was initially going to only put 1 screw in on the bottom as that is the thickest spot on the block. Sounds like using the other 4 holes will be ample. Definitely. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pedal2alloy 206 Posted October 4, 2009 Report Share Posted October 4, 2009 2nd photo of grip placement You could take off the PG and after the screw is in, take a little off the PG just enough to get it to sit flat. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kwesi 39 Posted October 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 2nd photo of grip placement You could take off the PG and after the screw is in, take a little off the PG just enough to get it to sit flat. On my way to my friends shop to tap the internal block then off to the range to test the DIY trigger conversion and MD20 drum. When I get home I'll "accessorize her" and take some glamour shots and post. Thanks again for everyone's suggestions! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kwesi 39 Posted October 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 We tapped all 5 holes and that internal block is in! Went to the range to test the conversion. Fired 15 slugs: Win SuperX hollow points 1oz 1600 FPS. Started with 5 rounds in the MD20 then switched to a new Surefire 10 rounder. Every round went bang as fast as I could pull the new DIY trigger! I set my new Gunfixr Plug on -1. The only problem I had was the SAW pg came loose. My guess is the blue locktite did not have enough time to dry properly. My wife has taught me the importance of "accessorizing". Hope to post pics of my S12 "makeover" tonight. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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