DavidQ 170 Posted October 18, 2009 Report Share Posted October 18, 2009 I recently got a .410 from a buddy of mine for a really good deal and am having a hard time finding out when it was made. The ones selling now have a prefix of 06 or 08 and mine starts with 02202XXX. Also, mine has the majority of the markings on the left side of the receiver. I can post pics if that helps. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted October 18, 2009 Report Share Posted October 18, 2009 The last two digits of the year of MFG are stamped on the left side of the receiver, underneath the oval shaped stamp. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DavidQ 170 Posted October 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 (edited) Thanks for the help. Apparently mine was made in 2002. Is it hard to find some that were made back then still around? How long have they been importing them into the US? Edited October 19, 2009 by AZ-DAVE-IZ109 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 Who's the importer? There were a few other companies who imported them before RAAC. EAA was bringing them in before RAAC. It was Kalashnikov USA before that....and Big Bear Arms, Falcon T&T, and at least one more that escapes me right now...Mine was brought in by K-USA in '99. I've seen some as early as '96. The 410 was the first Saiga imported (and I think the first one made period). Hey post some pics of both sides of the receiver if you can. I'm interested in the variety of the older Saiga out there. There are different sights, different gas systems, differentchokes, etc...I've been studying the differences in them for awhile now. Is yours marked as a 3" Magnum, or 3" Only gun? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DavidQ 170 Posted October 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 Mine is an early RAAC I guess. All the markings are different than the current ones. Here is a pic to compare. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Twinsen 86 Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 Wow, 1996? You know, a guy like me in a state like this would love a 1993. A pre-ban .410 would be insane. I'd get to actually open up a thread about folding stocks for the first time. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
akastormi 617 Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 OK Cobra, It's time to re-up your list. I bought mine way, way, way back. When they first hit the market. Importer was Big Bear Arms out of Dallas. 94 date stamp on the trunion, no oval. It came with the manual, cleaning kit, cleaning rod, black leather soft case, and black tab sling. The sling doubles from the rifle to the soft case for carrying ( per manual). I left it on the soft case. I bought the wood stock, lower grip and 10 Rd mags from Kalashnikov USA shortly after. Non-adjustable gas system, and vented screw on chokes. She's been rode hard chasing bunnies. But she'll eat anything 2 3/4 or better without fail. Funny note- This gun started a strange thing, last three of the serial #, 911 . I now own 6 guns that the serial #'s end with 911. Dial 911 ! Oh I get 911 alright. LOL Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DavidQ 170 Posted October 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 (edited) Wow that is awesome. I never knew that they started that early. But then again, I was 12 when that gun was made. This has been an interesting thread. Thanks for all the info guys. Edited October 19, 2009 by AZ-DAVE-IZ109 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
akastormi 617 Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 Not to hijack the thread, but I got a question. I just looked over all the pics posted of 410's. I guess I never gave it much thought, my Saiga 410 has something none others have. Front of the receiver I have a hand guard screw!! It threads into a nutsert in the wood. The hole was in the receiver, I remember it in the original black plastic one also. Anyone else have one with that? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Twinsen 86 Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Wow, so there is hope of finding a pre-ban one! That's fantastic! It'll never happen, but fantastic! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 thank you for the pictures. I will point out that you are missing the factory stamp that normally has the manuf. date under it just forward of the scope rail. give us some more pics! this is one of the rare plain jane guns that should get some more documentation for everyone to reference..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 Thanks for the cool pics stormi. You to Dave! Stormi I noticed something else yours and mine have in common (besides being a couple of the oldest ones I've seen posted to date, and both having ser. #s that end in ....11, and having the same old school gas system, and the ported extra full choke, and the 94 trunnion stamp:eek:...yup...that's right...) Ours don't have the little extra piece that covers the rear part of the ejection port. I always wondered if maybe mine had been broken or removed by the original owner....but it appears they hadn't started using those yet. As you know, these 410s were the very first Saigas. I assume you have the same hollow gas piston as me too....much different than the newer models have. My friend David (Aethelbert RIP) had one that had a similar gas system to ours but a slightly different piston. I've got good pics up somewhere in this section, showing the differences there. His was also a 3" only gun. One major difference in mine that I've only seen one other example of in all the time I've been here looking....mine has the fixed rib style sight with a brass bead up front, but no rear sight at all...and not even a dovetail for one. The interesting thing I've found in all the ancient models like ours (and even another slightly later model than mine which belonged to my good friend Aethelbert...RIP), they ALL have the 94 stamped trunnion. (Even though my receiver is stamped '99, in the common position under the oval, though the oval itself is at the front, rather than the rear of the stampings by the scope rail.) Are you sure yours is actually a '94? Does it say so in the manual somewhere? I need to get my manual out and look at it. At least with the S-12 and S-20, (the older versions like my '00 K-USA import) the first two actual digits of the serial # were the MFG date. For example, my AKS-12's serial begins with 004xxxxx. And then later on, they all started the serial with "H", then the digits, and the MFG date was under the oval. Another intersting tidbit....I have a really old S-20 that's been demilled. I still have all the parts except the center part of receiver that was cut out, and unfortunately that part probably had the oval if there was one....BUT...this S-20 ALSO has the #94 on the trunnion just like our 410s (separate from the actual serial # and out in front with the double crcle stamp that has the "U" symbol inside the circles, just like my 410) It has the very crude scratched on "Canta-410" and ".410x3" on the Rt side under the K-USA stamp. Also what appears to be a re-arsenal mark (old markings crosshatched out, with new ones underneath) on the left side under the C shaped stamp. Cobra finds these kinda things rather neato... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
akastormi 617 Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 (edited) OK you guys are gonna make me dig everything out now. It might be a day or two, I gotta take care of life first. Work, firewood and a new tat come first. Sorry. Edit to add- I'll see if I can find (pretty sure where) an old K-USA sales catalog with all the models of shoties and rifles they carried. Cobra, I need to see if yours was a different model #, now. Edited October 21, 2009 by akastormi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 Wow man I would LOVE to be able to get a copy of that somehow. Would you consider letting me borrow that for a few days to photocopy it? I would gladly cover the shipping charges both ways and send you back a little surprise for your efforts. I've got several different K -USA guns here in the safe, one of the very first S-12 bullpups (if not THE first) being one of them... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
akastormi 617 Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 And who said being a gun parts pack rat was bad? My son. He split his toe open on a crate of ammo last night. Hey, stay the hell out of the livingroom! I've run out of places to hide them, there's only so many places to stack them into end tables and coffee tables. LOL I do need to have another Crazy Pat Sale, AK parts are getting deep again. It's a little late to start digging now, Nailbomb visit, new ink and work in the AM. I'll get on things tomorrow, after throwing some firewood around. Cobra, I might live in the woods, that don't mean I live in the sticks. I can burn a copy, if I remember right, they sent me a price list also. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 LOL! Cool bro that would be awesome! Hey another thing I forgot to mention about my 410. It doesn't have a BHO either. That's why I put the SWIFT lever on it. That's a really nice option to have too IMO. It's so easy to just point at the target, drop the bolt real quick with trigger finger, and fire away. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
akastormi 617 Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 OK, went digging around. I found my sales receipt - Sat, 22 Sept 1995 for $265.00 NIB Manual has the Acceptance Certificate in the back Date of manufacture is listed as - 31 May 1995 The pics show all the markings on the 410, there are NO others. No bolt hold open or extra dust cover. Cobra, sending you a PM Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 very interesting. a more pronounced example of a 94 parts, with a next year finish date on it. I have only seen a few that dont match the manf. date to the prefix/arsenal date stamps.....only seen one so far that the prefix and arsenal dates do not match. I wonder what the +6 month delay was on it....maybe to get the model stamps in check? cool on the price tag, too.....I got my 12 for 279 new though, off the shelf, not mail order.....but you got wood too, though. note to self and others - need to start an "oldie saiga" thread with details in it. cool shit, dude thanks for posting more info. sidenote - Im sorry I had to leave NY....there are a lot of you now, two years later that I would have liked to meet "in the woods" for some fun. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 very interesting. a more pronounced example of a 94 parts, with a next year finish date on it. I have only seen a few that dont match the manf. date to the prefix/arsenal date stamps.....only seen one so far that the prefix and arsenal dates do not match. I'm sure it's a lot more common than you think. I've seen several just in my own collection here...and in my close friends' collections. I would like to hear someone comment on this who actually knows something about all these markings. Like has been shown here, the 94 stamp on the trunnion does not necessarily have anything to do with the year of MFG on the gun. Hell, according to the ATF, Saigas don't even have trunnions... note to self and others - need to start an "oldie saiga" thread with details in it. There have already been a couple of attempts... This is one that was started by my good friend David from across the pond..... http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=38608&st=0&p=346170&hl=Oldest&fromsearch=1entry346170 And Noobie started this one.... http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=40721&st=0&p=367489&hl=Oldest&fromsearch=1entry367489 ^^ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Notread 0 Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 I just checked out mine and it is a '95. No bolt hold open either. Just missed being pb, but I guess it doesn't make too much of a difference now. I'll post pictures later if you guys are interested. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
firemedicntx 0 Posted July 21, 2010 Report Share Posted July 21, 2010 Mine is stamped 93. 93 1202976 is the whole number. Came in through Dallas (Big Bear), then to Abilene (CDNN), then to me. They were the only ones that had'em at the time. Nobody wanted them, and the Saiga sporterized AKs had already flopped in the '70s once before (as did most Soviet block weapons). I bought the one I have back in late '95 or '96 for $150. Me and a buddy had been looking at them for awhile and I finally ordered a few. I usually keep everything that comes with a gun, but can't always find what I'm looking for in my storage area. So I may still have the receipt in the box, and maybe even the "New Arrivals" flier from cdnn that sparked our interest in'em. I'll take a few pics when I get a chance. I did notice that the one I kept isn't all marked up with multiple stampings like the pics of the others I've seen here. Just "SAIGA" and "Made in Russia" on the charging side with two armory stamps, and a tiny ".410 magnum 3"" stamped by the armory on the other, of course, Big Bear Arms Dallas TX is distinctively engraved right above dot matrix style. I don't know about now, but back then they came with a tool/cleaning kit, oil bottle, sling, and an od green fabric lined leather scabbard as well as a very thin user or owners pamphlet. I had been told by another gunsmith years ago that the first few batches of the Saigas that were sold in the early '90s were built from parts left over from 20 years earlier. Those had been chambered for the more popular Russian rifle calibers that were relatively unknown here in The States at the time. I suspect that making them available here in familiar .308, and .410 during a time when high capacity mags were illegal gave them a better edge in the market this time around. Daniel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
VaiFanatic90 360 Posted July 21, 2010 Report Share Posted July 21, 2010 So does this same method of determining the MFG date work for the other Saiga's as well? If that's the case, then the 7.62x39 I bought two months ago, which was totally brand new was actually made in 2006. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
firemedicntx 0 Posted July 21, 2010 Report Share Posted July 21, 2010 (edited) So does this same method of determining the MFG date work for the other Saiga's as well? If that's the case, then the 7.62x39 I bought two months ago, which was totally brand new was actually made in 2006. I have brand new weapons (still packed in cosmiline) in the safe that were imported brand new, never issued, never fired that are over ten years old. Sale date and manufacture date on new guns isn't necessarily related. Daniel Edited July 21, 2010 by firemedicntx Quote Link to post Share on other sites
VaiFanatic90 360 Posted July 21, 2010 Report Share Posted July 21, 2010 So does this same method of determining the MFG date work for the other Saiga's as well? If that's the case, then the 7.62x39 I bought two months ago, which was totally brand new was actually made in 2006. I have brand new weapons (still packed in cosmiline) in the safe that were imported brand new, never issued, never fired that are over ten years old. Sale date and manufacture date on new guns isn't necessarily related. Daniel Thanks Daniel, Nice to know! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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