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MD20 Ammo Table Guide - PDF attached!


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#121 GunFun

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 08:44 PM

Does it list other vital numbers, such as pellet count, and nominal velocity or possibly dram equivalent?



#122 Goldeneagle76

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 10:52 PM

Does it list other vital numbers, such as pellet count, and nominal velocity or possibly dram equivalent?

Sorry, here is info . 9 pellets, 1320 fps

#123 GunFun

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 11:11 PM

Funny. Standard velocity for commercial 9 Pellet OO buckshot loads  and it's neighbors has been 1325 FPS forever. All this "tactical buck" business is letting them market standard as Hi.

 

Thanks for the info.



#124 Goldeneagle76

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 11:52 AM

Funny. Standard velocity for commercial 9 Pellet OO buckshot loads  and it's neighbors has been 1325 FPS forever. All this "tactical buck" business is letting them market standard as Hi.

 

Thanks for the info.

Sorry, fat fingers on an iphone and a 3 year old tugging on my arm.  Should have been 1330 fps.  Guess the extra 5 fps allows for the "high velocity" tag.



#125 BruisedShoulder

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 10:38 AM

I didn't see PMC listed on the chart.

From my tests, the PMC Slugs and 9 pellet Buck Shot won't fit in the Drum but worked great with the mags.



#126 Goldeneagle76

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 12:02 PM

I had my MD 20 loaded up with the PMC High Velocity 00 buck and they fit just fine. They all measured under the required 2.4" and actually were all at or under 2.25".

#127 GunFun

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 02:30 PM

Funny. Standard velocity for commercial 9 Pellet OO buckshot loads  and it's neighbors has been 1325 FPS forever. All this "tactical buck" business is letting them market standard as Hi.

 

Thanks for the info.

Sorry, fat fingers on an iphone and a 3 year old tugging on my arm.  Should have been 1330 fps.  Guess the extra 5 fps allows for the "high velocity" tag.

+

 

 

I had my MD 20 loaded up with the PMC High Velocity 00 buck and they fit just fine. They all measured under the required 2.4" and actually were all at or under 2.25".

=/=

 

 

I didn't see PMC listed on the chart.

From my tests, the PMC Slugs and 9 pellet Buck Shot won't fit in the Drum but worked great with the mags.

 

 

This is why model # and velocity, etc matter. General descriptions aren't good enough to identify what specific ammo you are talking about, since if both of the above are true, we can see that PMC makes or made 9pellet OOB and slugs that worked, and some rounds of the same description that didn't work.

 

At this point,while both of you were trying to be helpful, so far only GoldenEagle gave specific enough information that we could go look at some PMC ammo and order it or not. He gave us [load description/ brand label, length, velocity and pellet count, and which drum he tested it with, but not item number, ] Bruised gave us an unspecific old recollection. [only load descriptions: "PMC slugs and 9 pellet buckshot, not what size of buckshot, not what item number, not unfired shell length, No velocity, no whether they were fold or roll crimped] Without more information, that is not helpful. It isn't verified and doesn't belong on the chart until there is enough information to show either that BruisedS is talking about other PMC loads than GE, or that he for sure is talking about the same item # but PMC loads ammo under the same brand description and item #. With the info we have now, only G.E.'s information should go onto the chart.

 

I'd hate for a guy to walk away from a great deal on some ammo that will serve his purposes, just because someone put in information that was only a fuzzy memory.

 

We can see that both people were trying to be helpful, but more work is needed before both actually are helpful. Now it might turn out that Bruised S has some of the old boxes laying around and other helpful information not listed such as "This was a few years ago when PMC used roll crimps all of the boxes had pictures of ponies on them, the newer stuff has different looking boxes." or other information that might help. That would give us enough to at least enquire further if a co-worker offers us a bunch of old PMC shells with ponies on the box...., but it wouldn't be enough to confidently buy $250 worth online.

 

The conclusion, is that it doesn't go into the table until there is enough info that we can be 100% certain that someone else could look at the information and know exactly whether he was buying that same load.


Edited by GunFun, 13 January 2013 - 02:32 PM.


#128 GunFun

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 03:14 PM

Revision note: Saved a backup, and shuffled things around so that the brands are in alphabetical order.

 

Adding PMC Buckshot info from GE in a minute. Need more info on slug to be able to enter, i.e. Item # weight ,velocity.


Edited by GunFun, 13 January 2013 - 03:21 PM.


#129 Goldeneagle76

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 08:33 PM

Item# is HV12BK00 for the PMC HV 00buck I test fit
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#130 King of the Hill

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 12:13 PM

I just want to say thank you Gunfun for what you are doing here.
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#131 GunFun

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 01:22 PM

KOH-- did you put the ammo you posted into the table or not? I haven't got a chance to go through those threads and check to see if you entered them.

 

I guess it would be helpful to add a notation to the thread when we post specs whether or not we put them into the table too.

 

Thanks for the complement, but it isn't that big a deal others have done most of the work. I just compiled it and made it easier to update/ clarified what info we need. The irony is that by the time I got around to this, I quit buying factory ammo other than birdshot. 



#132 King of the Hill

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 03:30 PM

Yes. I believe that all of the ones I posted about I added to the table.
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#133 theKingskid

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 09:09 AM

Great information! thank you for the lesson on loading the mags! i have read in other places, that lots of file work will need to be done to my mags. However, after watching your demo, i think i will work on my technique proir to working on my mags. thanks again



#134 Nephilim7

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 07:53 AM

Gre

i have read in other places, that lots of file work will need to be done to my mags...

I have a 2011 S12 and my MD-20 was a very tight fit, but wore itself in with 20 or so insertions and required no filing at all. The filing is not difficult if you follow the instructions.

I agree, thanks Gunfun, for you contributions!

Praise the LORD, an' pass the amma-nition!!!

 

USE GOOGLE TO SEARCH THE FORUM:  Search for, "saiga 12 forum whatever you are looking for".  Read before posting questions.  The stickies (top of the list of threads) have most of the info newbies will need.  deadhorse.gif


#135 GunFun

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 01:52 PM

Hey guys. It's nice that you appreciate the little I did, but this isn't my thread, and I didn't even do most of the work. 

 

Let's keep the posts here strictly to posting measurements and info from shells.

 

If you want to chat with me or ask questions about other topics, please use the personal messenger. I am always happy to help, and am as open to thanks as anyone else. 



#136 Goldeneagle76

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 12:31 PM

Finally got a chance to run some of the PMC High Velocity 00 buck through the other night.  Ran very well through the MD20.  


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#137 JohnnyJT

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 06:23 PM

Hi

 

I just received my S&B 12ga 00 buck after 2 month wait and it fits MD drum.

I updated the google data page for eveyone to see.

 

 

JohnnyJTcool.png


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#138 Beretty

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 07:44 PM

A few questions regarding the Universal Drum Chart. 1.) Does Federal make Power Shocks in 1 oz slug and 00 Buck? The spreadsheet has 2 variations of Power Shock listed but both are slugs. I just shot 00 Power Shocks and would like to add them to the chart. 2.) Why do most on the forum dislike the Promag 20 drums? It seems I have been the only person to add any rounds to it's column. Are they really that bad? I've never had any problems feeding or firing (except when I was trying to run everything on gas setting 1). 3.) Any way we can get the New Universal Drum Spreadsheet to the top of the thread or copy the chart into a new thread? 4.)Thank you to Gunfun for creating this.



#139 King of the Hill

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 05:24 PM

A few questions regarding the Universal Drum Chart. 1.) Does Federal make Power Shocks in 1 oz slug and 00 Buck? The spreadsheet has 2 variations of Power Shock listed but both are slugs. I just shot 00 Power Shocks and would like to add them to the chart. 2.) Why do most on the forum dislike the Promag 20 drums? It seems I have been the only person to add any rounds to it's column. Are they really that bad? I've never had any problems feeding or firing (except when I was trying to run everything on gas setting 1). 3.) Any way we can get the New Universal Drum Spreadsheet to the top of the thread or copy the chart into a new thread? 4.)Thank you to Gunfun for creating this.
Regarding #2, I believe you are mistaken on both points. The Promag drums are generally liked by the members here who have used them, and I specifically remembering adding content to the Promag columns.
.

#140 GunFun

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 08:46 PM

A few questions regarding the Universal Drum Chart. 1.) Does Federal make Power Shocks in 1 oz slug and 00 Buck? The spreadsheet has 2 variations of Power Shock listed but both are slugs. I just shot 00 Power Shocks and would like to add them to the chart. 2.) Why do most on the forum dislike the Promag 20 drums? It seems I have been the only person to add any rounds to it's column. Are they really that bad? I've never had any problems feeding or firing (except when I was trying to run everything on gas setting 1). 3.) Any way we can get the New Universal Drum Spreadsheet to the top of the thread or copy the chart into a new thread? 4.)Thank you to Gunfun for creating this.

 

1) Power-Shok™ is a whole brand line for Federal. It seems to be their mid range stuff. Not the LE line, not the white box. Sort of like Buick for GM. They offer lotsa stuff with that label, including various buckshot. I'm pretty sure I added some #4 Buck power-shok to that list. This reinforces the need to be specific. You wouldn't ask if this is the right piston for a buick, you would ask for a 1995 buick century. Here, you need to be a bit more specific and say something more like Power-shok 9 pellet OOB High velocity,  in order to be able to know if you have something that will fit.

2) I don't think there is dislike for promag drums so much.They were a blatant knock off. Their frequently crummy stick mags and many other non-S12 products have earned dislike for the company. I've been burned by them on a 10/22 drum which could never have worked it was made so badly. I've seen 10 & 12  round drums and thought they were well made, but if MD made a comparable drum, I'd still pay a bit more for that.  I would like a 12 and a 15. MD drums are the original, and they are made better. They are more durable, and simpler.

 

The forum really has a problem with AA wraithmaker because the company overcharges, jerks people around, lies, makes products that often don't work, messed up a bunch of guns to make them work with their faulty product, makes absurd claims about their own product, and about others..... but some people are happy with their AA drums. They appear to be a lucky few.

 

3) I've thought about it, and might do that if a Mod weighs in. I would want to make a really nice instruction set for the first post with pics to explain what the terms mean. I would probably need people to send me some pics of various things on the drums I don't own. (I only have an MD20) I partly haven't because it would have felt like hijacking someone else's work and slapping my name on it. If there are a bunch more problems with people not reading the instructions and making a mess of the table, it might be worth starting a new thread that is just an instruction set and a link, locked by the mods.

 

4) I didn't start it. I reorganized other people's work and made it easier to update. I added a small amount of new info. So for the small part I can take credit for, you are welcome.



#141 Beretty

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 12:07 PM

Taking back what I said about Promag 20 drum. At the range yesterday, shooting Federal Premium LE Truball rifled slugs (1600 fps), the drum jumped out of the gun every shot. When it crashed on the ground every round popped out of the drum. Anyone ever use these rounds in an MD20? They cycled fine in factory Russian mag. I would like to hear about experiences with the same load. Preferably in a Promag 20.

Also, Fiocchi Low Recoil Slugs (1150 fps) would not cycle in my gun. They worked last time out. Not a mag issue. Maybe these shells were not as powerful as the same I had last time? Fiocchi is pretty cheap and I think there may have been a pressure difference. Should I remove these Fiocchi slugs from spreadsheet? Please advise.



#142 GunFun

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 05:48 PM

That just means you haven't fit the drum properly. No sense blaming the shells.

 

Look up MD Arms' video (or .pdf) on doing the A B and C fitting as necessary.



#143 Beretty

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 03:19 PM

I don't think that's the problem. I have tried so many different loads in it without issue. I fired 4 other loads that day without problems. Only Federal Truball LE caused the drum drop 3 times consecutively. I have the RAM Extended Mag Catch and was thinking my trigger finger may have been bouncing from the recoil of 1600 fps. But after banging my finger off the trigger guard a few times, I think I would've felt it. And the factory mag didn't drop.



#144 bbm3

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 12:54 PM

Added NobelSport ANSF128 to spreadsheet.

 

Functioned perfectly in MD20 although I did have one spent shell that had a tear as pictured.

 

nobelsport.jpg



#145 bbm3

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 08:18 PM

Update:

I think the "tear" I pictured above is actually a melted slot caused by a hot brass shell head landing on the previous spent shell.

On closer inspection the slot is slightly curved and looks to be melted rather than a mechanical tear. 

 

nobelsport2.JPG

 

Perfect fit.

 

 


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#146 kwesi

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 05:48 PM

Gunfun: I've been away from the forum since creating the MD Arms drum ammo PDF file.  Thank you for taking this to a new level.  I realize this is an old file but I did add three items that we tested recently.






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