HELP bullets not feeding correctly with buttet guide installed

[aaronjudd 0]

I finished my conversion about a week ago. Installed a round trunion bullet guide from carolina shooters,and For some reason with a 40 round ak magazine the bolt feeds the bullet correctly for half of the stroke and with the last half of the stroke it drags the bullet underneath it into the area under the bullet guide and jams the gun. With my 100 round drum i dont have this problem because there is only one bullet fed at a time up to the bolt. It looks like if i filled in or welded up the recessed area where the second round slides out of the magazine this would never happen therefore making the bullet guide useless. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

[chevyman097 2,579]

What kind of mags are you using? can you show a picture of the bullet guide installed? how exactly are you testing it as well?

[Bean.223 365]

It might only be that particular magazine....try a third mag before you give up...

 

Experts will be along shortly,

[rob-cubed 74]

First, try at least one new mag... particularly a foreign-made 30-rounder.

 

Usually FTF problems are mag-related, either the mag itself or due to it being seated improperly. My mags all have slightly varying thicknesses of tabs and a tiny change in angle can cause feed problems. Did you over or under-file the mag catch? There is a "sweet spot" which will work with nearly all mags.

 

Once you've ruled out mag issues, and if you are still having problems, post some pics.

[my762buzz 141]

it drags the bullet underneath it into the area under the bullet guide and jams the gun. With my 100 round drum i dont have this problem because there is only one bullet fed at a time up to the bolt.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That is not a bullet guide function or malfunction. A double feed like what you are describing is related to the magazine itself.

The only two things within the magazine itself that could have any bearing on a double feed are the follower and the feed lips.

Are the feed lips straight on the magazine (compare them to another magazine)?

[aaronjudd 0]

Yeah i tried another 40 rounder clip my buddy got with his WASR. The other clip is one that i got with the gun. If i had to guess i would say its a foreign ak style metal clip. Ill try to put a pic on later.

[my762buzz 141]

Yeah i tried another 40 rounder clip my buddy got with his WASR. The other clip is one that i got with the gun. If i had to guess i would say its a foreign ak style metal clip. Ill try to put a pic on later.

That might be your problem. You need a magazine and not a clip. Clips don't work in AK rifles. LOL

 

This is a clip

Edited March 6, 2010 by my762buzz

[aaronjudd 0]

Here are some pics of the mag. The previous owner modified the underside of the catch.

 

1. Is this the correct way to modify? Or do you grind down the top side?

 

2. Do yo see on the first picture how you can see both bullet tips. If i push on rear of bullet it will go forward some and catch. Is this Ok?

[aaronjudd 0]

here is somepics of the jam.

[aaronjudd 0]

Yeah i tried another 40 rounder clip my buddy got with his WASR. The other clip is one that i got with the gun. If i had to guess i would say its a foreign ak style metal clip. Ill try to put a pic on later.

That might be your problem. You need a magazine and not a clip. Clips don't work in AK rifles. LOL

 

This is a clip

 

Ha Ha Ha Oops, I guess i inow the difference now LOL. Thanks Man

[my762buzz 141]

Here are some pics of the mag. The previous owner modified the underside of the catch.

 

1. Is this the correct way to modify? Or do you grind down the top side?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately, the magazine latch on the gun should be filed but instead the magazine itself is filed . You can fix that by filing off just enough to allow a regular

surplus military mag to lock in.

 

The mag you are showing has been molested and the feed angle is not lined up right. Simple fix is get a different mag and don't file the mag only file the gun latch.

Edited March 6, 2010 by my762buzz

[aaronjudd 0]

I agree that the magazine was not modified correctly because you would have to alter every mag you want to use in your gun.

 

I dont see how removing metal on the underside of the magazine catch would change the feed angle. The catch in the front is untouched and only the underside of the rear magazine catch was altered. The top of the mag catch in the rear was untouched and thus the feed angle has been unchanged.

[paprotective 362]

Try filing the EDGE of the bullet-guide a hair.. Like this...

 

 

Just a slight BEVEL may help with the feeding. HP's can snag the FLAT and stop dead like you got showing..

 

I did mine in 2 mins flat and had no FTF at all after that.

[my762buzz 141]

I agree that the magazine was not modified correctly because you would have to alter every mag you want to use in your gun.

 

I dont see how removing metal on the underside of the magazine catch would change the feed angle. The catch in the front is untouched and only the underside of the rear magazine catch was altered. The top of the mag catch in the rear was untouched and thus the feed angle has been unchanged.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ok,if I am understanding this right from the pictures and what you explained earlier, the right side appears like it does not feed high enough but the left side

looks like it does. Is this correct?

[aaronjudd 0]

Sorry guys, You know what I Might just be Retarded. I havnt even shot the gun yet. I am just basing this on just slowly pulling the bolt back and slowly pushing it forward. Mabye this isnt normal practice for this gun. Mabye i just need to pull it back and let it rack its self. I am just paranoid of doing this in my house because of reading about other people doing this and having the gun fire. Prol because of the free floating firing pin. I checked and the primer after doing this and it is dimpled when I do this. Should this be a real concern or am I being over paranoid? I have been known to overanalize things.

 

Should i be able to slowly rack the bolt like every other rifle I own or is the Saiga different? I am going to the range tomorrow just to find out. Ill let you know what happens.

[my762buzz 141]

Sorry guys, You know what I Might just be Retarded. I havnt even shot the gun yet. I am just basing this on just slowly pulling the bolt back and slowly pushing it forward. Mabye this isnt normal practice for this gun. Mabye i just need to pull it back and let it rack its self. I am just paranoid of doing this in my house because of reading about other people doing this and having the gun fire. Prol because of the free floating firing pin. I checked and the primer after doing this and it is dimpled when I do this. Should this be a real concern or am I being over paranoid? I have been known to overanalize things.

 

Should i be able to slowly rack the bolt like every other rifle I own or is the Saiga different? I am going to the range tomorrow just to find out. Ill let you know what happens.

 

 

 

You could use the pin punch in your tool kit to remove the firing pin retainer pin which will allow the firing pin to be removed.

Cycling it fast with the firing pin removed should not set off a primer. Or, just wait until you make it to a range.

[aaronjudd 0]

I dont have a cleaning kit. But i am very handy. And i dont know how to remove retainer or where it is. Is it the ejector or little roll pin looking thing? I am very interested in this so i can check it out tonight. Thanks for all of your help man its greatly appreciated.

[rob-cubed 74]

I am just basing this on just slowly pulling the bolt back and slowly pushing it forward. Mabye this isnt normal practice for this gun. Mabye i just need to pull it back and let it rack its self.

 

This! My friend was getting lots of FTF on the first round and I couldn't figure out why until I watched him ride the bolt forward slowly. You should just let it slam shut.

 

Altering the mag tab rather than the catch is acceptable, but you only have to modify the catch once. Do that instead and use unaltered mags.

 

As someone else mentioned, if you have completely ruled out a magazine issue the next thing to try might be beveling the top edge of the guide. It looks like your guide extends out pretty far into the magwell... did you seat it all the way forward when installing? Compare it to a functioning AK before doing any work on the guide, if it's out too far then filing the top edge alone won't help, you'll need to take off some additional material.

 

Hopefully you'll get it to the range and find no issues!

[kresk 10,063]

Sorry guys, You know what I Might just be Retarded. I havnt even shot the gun yet. I am just basing this on just slowly pulling the bolt back and slowly pushing it forward. Mabye this isnt normal practice for this gun. Mabye i just need to pull it back and let it rack its self. I am just paranoid of doing this in my house because of reading about other people doing this and having the gun fire. Prol because of the free floating firing pin. I checked and the primer after doing this and it is dimpled when I do this. Should this be a real concern or am I being over paranoid? I have been known to overanalize things.

 

Should i be able to slowly rack the bolt like every other rifle I own or is the Saiga different? I am going to the range tomorrow just to find out. Ill let you know what happens.

You should NEVER judge a problem, especially a feed problem, to exist solely on the basis of HAND CYCLING the firearm. The dynamics are totally different under normal operating conditions. As you suspected, you need to rack the bolt all the way back and let it fly freely to determine if a feeding problem exists. You should not have an AD unless your firing pin is stuck forward, which shouldn't occur in a properly cleaned and checked gun. Will be interested to hear how the firearm functioned at the range.

[KennyGT 0]

Here are some pics of the mag. The previous owner modified the underside of the catch.

 

1. Is this the correct way to modify? Or do you grind down the top side?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately, the magazine latch on the gun should be filed but instead the magazine itself is filed . You can fix that by filing off just enough to allow a regular

surplus military mag to lock in.

 

The mag you are showing has been molested and the feed angle is not lined up right. Simple fix is get a different mag and don't file the mag only file the gun latch.

 

is that closest to the brrel or closest to the mag release lever?

[Mullet Man 2,114]

You can also remove the hammer from the gun and reinstall all of the FCG parts (less the hammer), to function test. This eliminates the chance of accidental discharge from manipulation of the trigger.

Of course, always point in a safe direction, outdoors and in an area far from public disturbance.

Edited March 7, 2010 by Mullet Man

[my762buzz 141]

Here are some pics of the mag. The previous owner modified the underside of the catch.

 

1. Is this the correct way to modify? Or do you grind down the top side?

 

Unfortunately, the magazine latch on the gun should be filed but instead the magazine itself is filed . You can fix that by filing off just enough to allow a regular

surplus military mag to lock in.

 

The mag you are showing has been molested and the feed angle is not lined up right. Simple fix is get a different mag and don't file the mag only file the gun latch.

 

is that closest to the brrel or closest to the mag release lever?

 

The circled part is the upper mag latch that contacts the underside of the rear magazine stub. The mag latch is at the rear of the mag well. Filing the top of the latch is all that is necessary.

Edited March 7, 2010 by my762buzz