Gas system experiment for Less Lethal (bean-bag) rounds. Hmmmm?

[Paulyski 2,227]

I've been floating a concept about how to make an S-12 cycle Less Than Lethal rounds for some time now. I can't get it out of my head.

I think this would fill a niche that has yet to be filled. LE may find a gun like this quite useful for riot control.

 

Some of our top builders shorten gas systems & enlarge ports to either make SBS's work, or install mid barrel brakes to reduce lift for race guns.

 

Now, the thought has crossed my mind, that it may be possible to shorten the gas system, enlarge the ports & weld up the old ones but NOT install the brake or cut the barrel below 19". I was thinking that this may provide enough gas to cycle the action on bean-bag rounds & such reliably.

 

Of course all the reshaping, polishing, & other friction reducing procedures that we normally do would also be employed.

 

For high brass & magnum, I was thinking one may be able to tame it with either a gunfixer style plug, OR put a mid barrel brake on it that would relieve pressure to tame the high brass, but could be twisted sideways to block the extra vents when using less than lethal ammo. A wrench, or gasket system would most likely be required or a forward vertical grip mounted securely on the break to turn it, with a spring loaded lock pin to secure it would be neat. This would allow for rather quick changeover.

 

If going the plug route, I would try both a gunfixer type & a factory plug (after the system is dirty & sealed up nice to prevent gas leakage).

 

If the gunfixer style worked, Money! But if the factory plug worked for Less Lethal, but not the gunfixer style, I would try to modify it to be like the factory plug by shortening it everywhere but where it absolutely needed to be longer to cover the ports to tame the gun. I think It may have to be hardened to account for the thinner metal covering the ports. It would only have 2 settings. 1 weak & 1 strong.

This may restore a gas chamber close to the factory's intentions & provide a larger chamber in the correct shape which may let enough gas accumulate to provide uniform pressure in the system to propel the puck & keep the 45 degree angle that I believe the factory intended for gas dispersal. (Once again, I would test Less Lethal shells after firing about 50 rounds of low brass bird shot to get wadding & powder to seal the puck & threads & prevent leakage.)

 

In a perfect world, this would be tested on a 24" gun that someone was planning to make into an SBS, so one would have the longer barrel to increase the amount of time that the gas had to accumulate. If it worked, I would cut the barrel down incrementally & enlarge ports as needed. If it wont work, the excess barrel will be cut off anyhow, so no big loss.

 

I currently lack a lathe to turn down barrels & shorten gas systems, so all I can do is dream for the time being. It would be easy for someone who was already turning down a barrel for SBS or race gun purposes if they had a lathe large enough to accommodate a 24" barrel.

 

Any thoughts on the idea as a whole?

Any takers on the experiment?

 

EDIT:

Poll about weather or not it may be viable is closed, because apparently Cadiz has made one work.

Edited March 20, 2010 by Paulyski

[mgconnor13 206]

think some one is working on it already. It was painted orange to stand out. If I remember right the ports had to be opened up so much that the gun can't use any thing other then less lethal rounds now. I'll try to find who was working on that.

[VanKiller 322]

That would be me.

I've already worked it out.

 

If you find anyone who is looking for some , I'll pay you a commission.

[Paulyski 2,227]

That would be me.

I've already worked it out.

 

If you find anyone who is looking for some , I'll pay you a commission.

Bad ass!

If I were you, I would post about it in the "Cop Talk" section of Glock-Talk, or other LE type forums.

Also try to sell it to private prison systems as an effective safer way to disperse riots,thus saving lives & Millions of $$$ from lawsuits. ESPECIALLY if it can dump 20 or 30 2 3/4" of Less Than Lethal from a drum.

I would assume privately owned corporate prisons might be interested in something like that for their tower watches as from what I'm aware, nothing like that exists yet.

If they teargas a group of inmates, & an asthmatic inmate who wasn't involved dies from the teargas, they could pay out millions in a wrongful death suite...

There's your sales pitch.

The fear factor alone from the knowledge that their tower guards had drummed up AK's that fire bean bags & rubber slugs & the guards could mow them down in a heartbeat... It could stop prison riots from ever happening in the first place!

It would have an unsurpassed direct psychological impact as a deterrent!

A can of tear gas could never begin to come close to that.

 

Call it the "Incident Control System" or "I.C.S."

How's that sound for semantics? All warm & fuzzy. It would look better when crossing a liberal's desk that they spent all that $$ on an "Incident Control System". It's all about safety.

The end users would love it because they could pronounce "I.C.S. as" Ice.

Nuturalizing a violent group of inmates with the Incident Control System, would come to be known as "Icing them", Or "Putting them on ice"! The gurds would be known as the Ice Men & most importantly, the potentially riotous Inmates would never consider rioting, because that would cause the "ICEMEN to commeth!!!"

 

I'm Really glad to hear it can be done.

Can it be controlled enough to switch over to higher powered rounds too? And what barrel length were you able to get it down to?

Pics?

 

(I won't ask about technical specifics. I understand for you, that would be a trade secret. For me though, it's more of a fascination)

Edited March 20, 2010 by Paulyski

[Donkismash 81]

That would be me.

I've already worked it out.

 

If you find anyone who is looking for some , I'll pay you a commission.

Bad ass!

If I were you, I would post about it in the "Cop Talk" section of Glock-Talk, or other LE type forums.

Also try to sell it to private prison systems as an effective safer way to disperse riots,thus saving lives & Millions of $$$ from lawsuits. ESPECIALLY if it can dump 20 or 30 2 3/4" of Less Than Lethal from a drum.

I would assume privately owned corporate prisons might be interested in something like that for their tower watches as from what I'm aware, nothing like that exists yet.

If they teargas a group of inmates, & an asthmatic inmate who wasn't involved dies from the teargas, they could pay out millions in a wrongful death suite...

There's your sales pitch.

The fear factor alone from the knowledge that their tower guards had drummed up AK's that fire bean bags & rubber slugs & the guards could mow them down in a heartbeat... It could stop prison riots from ever happening in the first place!

It would have an unsurpassed direct psychological impact as a deterrent!

A can of tear gas could never begin to come close to that.

 

Call it the "Incident Control System" or "I.C.S."

How's that sound for semantics? All warm & fuzzy. It would look better when crossing a liberal's desk that they spent all that $$ on an "Incident Control System". It's all about safety.

The end users would love it because they could pronounce "I.C.S. as" Ice.

Nuturalizing a violent group of inmates with the Incident Control System, would come to be known as "Icing them", Or "Putting them on ice"! The gurds would be known as the Ice Men & most importantly, the potentially riotous Inmates would never consider rioting, because that would cause the "ICEMEN to commeth!!!"

 

I'm Really glad to hear it can be done.

Can it be controlled enough to switch over to higher powered rounds too? And what barrel length were you able to get it down to?

Pics?

 

(I won't ask about technical specifics. I understand for you, that would be a trade secret. For me though, it's more of a fascination)

 

I thought you worked in the nut house not in advertising

[Paulyski 2,227]

That would be me.

I've already worked it out.

 

If you find anyone who is looking for some , I'll pay you a commission.

Bad ass!

If I were you, I would post about it in the "Cop Talk" section of Glock-Talk, or other LE type forums.

Also try to sell it to private prison systems as an effective safer way to disperse riots,thus saving lives & Millions of $$$ from lawsuits. ESPECIALLY if it can dump 20 or 30 2 3/4" of Less Than Lethal from a drum.

I would assume privately owned corporate prisons might be interested in something like that for their tower watches as from what I'm aware, nothing like that exists yet.

If they teargas a group of inmates, & an asthmatic inmate who wasn't involved dies from the teargas, they could pay out millions in a wrongful death suite...

There's your sales pitch.

The fear factor alone from the knowledge that their tower guards had drummed up AK's that fire bean bags & rubber slugs & the guards could mow them down in a heartbeat... It could stop prison riots from ever happening in the first place!

It would have an unsurpassed direct psychological impact as a deterrent!

A can of tear gas could never begin to come close to that.

 

Call it the "Incident Control System" or "I.C.S."

How's that sound for semantics? All warm & fuzzy. It would look better when crossing a liberal's desk that they spent all that $$ on an "Incident Control System". It's all about safety.

The end users would love it because they could pronounce "I.C.S. as" Ice.

Nuturalizing a violent group of inmates with the Incident Control System, would come to be known as "Icing them", Or "Putting them on ice"! The gurds would be known as the Ice Men & most importantly, the potentially riotous Inmates would never consider rioting, because that would cause the "ICEMEN to commeth!!!"

 

I'm Really glad to hear it can be done.

Can it be controlled enough to switch over to higher powered rounds too? And what barrel length were you able to get it down to?

Pics?

 

(I won't ask about technical specifics. I understand for you, that would be a trade secret. For me though, it's more of a fascination)

 

I thought you worked in the nut house not in advertising

Same difference.