quick 922 question(s)

[blackrifle71 0]

Might seem a little politically incorrect to ask but...

Why do people care about this 922 stuff?

I mean, who is to know or care about what you do to your rifle if it is in your private home?

Is the ATF going to show up at my house this year and say

Hi! Couldn't help but notice you own a Saiga rifle.

Do you mind if I check it out to make sure you haven't cut the barrel or installed a select fire without a stamp or

whatever...

Not trying to offend here I am just curious.

People posting things all the time like..

"Yes, and that will be one more 922 part, good for you"

I just don't understand how you can get in trouble for doing whatever

I bought my rifle,

I took it home.

That should be the end of the story, right?

[nalioth 405]

Joe is driving on a deserted highway.

 

Joe can safely drive 190 miles per hour in his Bugatti.

 

Joe does so.

 

Nobody is hurt.

 

The law is still broken, even though nobody saw Joe.

 

Not trying to offend here I am just curious.

It's got nothing to do with "offense", and everything to do with conspiracy to violate the law.

 

We do not condone lawbreakers here.

[corbin 621]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

 

As Nalioth said, nobody here advocates or conmdones anything illegal. Yeah, some laws are kinda stupid if you ask the majority of folks here, but we will do everything we can to not break any laws or encourage others to do so. To do otherwise is just asking for trouble and it's just not worth it.

 

 

Again, welcome.

 

 

By the Way, you should probably have posted this in the Legal section.

 

 

 

Corbin

Edited April 14, 2010 by Corbin

[chevyman097 2,579]

Lets say you have to use your rifle for self defense(thugs break in and are wrecking the place). Ok well hrm you used an illegal weapon to "kill" some thug intruders, sad now your the criminal too...

 

 

[blackrifle71 0]

ok, the last post makes sense.

NOW i understand.

if i had to use the weapon in self defence non-compliance would be a big deal.

i am tempted to comment on the laws of men now but i will refrain...

thanks for the welcome by the way.

[chevyman097 2,579]

ok, the last post makes sense.

NOW i understand.

if i had to use the weapon in self defence non-compliance would be a big deal.

i am tempted to comment on the laws of men now but i will refrain...

thanks for the welcome by the way.

 

Im paranoid, I just dont want them to turn somthing around on me in any way, shape or form. And they will! Can you imagine the media report if they got ahold of that one.

 

"man kills possible home intruders with illegal assault "style" ak 47"

[vbrtrmn 167]

It all falls to this: Would you like a nice long stay in Federal Ass-Rape Prison? If no, then do your best to be a law abiding citizen

[N4KVE 14]

ok, the last post makes sense.

NOW i understand.

if i had to use the weapon in self defence non-compliance would be a big deal.

i am tempted to comment on the laws of men now but i will refrain...

thanks for the welcome by the way.

The law was written to stop the importation of "assault weapons" in 1989. Sporting type weapons like the MAK 90 could still be imported. However this law never affected guns made in the USA, so if we install enough US parts in an imported gun, it becomes a US gun, & can look "evil". However, the 922 law was crafted to stop the "importation", & "assembly" of "assault" type weapons, not ownership. So if you buy a Saiga, & convert it to the pistol grip/buttstock style, you must play the 922 game, however if you go to a gunshow, & purchase a Saiga that has already been converted to pistol grip/buttstock style, & it has no US parts, it's perfectly legal to own, as you didn't "import" or assemble" it, & have broken no laws. GARY N4KVE Edited April 13, 2010 by N4KVE

[chevyman097 2,579]

ok, the last post makes sense.

NOW i understand.

if i had to use the weapon in self defence non-compliance would be a big deal.

i am tempted to comment on the laws of men now but i will refrain...

thanks for the welcome by the way.

however if you go to a gunshow, & purchase a Saiga that has already been converted to pistol grip/buttstock style, & it has no US parts, it's perfectly legal to own, as you didn't "import" or assemble" it, & have broken no laws. GARY N4KVE

 

 

I dont know if you just worded that wrong, but that is not completely true.

[beale 1]

Let's say you want to take your carbine to the range.

[denden 16]

ok, the last post makes sense.

NOW i understand.

if i had to use the weapon in self defence non-compliance would be a big deal.

i am tempted to comment on the laws of men now but i will refrain...

thanks for the welcome by the way.

however if you go to a gunshow, & purchase a Saiga that has already been converted to pistol grip/buttstock style, & it has no US parts, it's perfectly legal to own, as you didn't "import" or assemble" it, & have broken no laws. GARY N4KVE

 

 

I dont know if you just worded that wrong, but that is not completely true.

Okay, just to make sure I'm understanding the above, N4KVE are you saying that even if the rifle has been illegally imported or assembled, once you buy it (assuming a private party sale) all of its prior sins are forgiven and the new owner can never be held accountable for the fact that it does not conform to 922?

[nalioth 405]

Okay, just to make sure I'm understanding the above, N4KVE are you saying that even if the rifle has been illegally imported or assembled, once you buy it (assuming a private party sale) all of its prior sins are forgiven and the new owner can never be held accountable for the fact that it does not conform to 922?

"Possession" is not against the law.

 

"Assembly" of a non-compliant gun is.

 

The revenuers have stated that inserting a magazine constitutes "assembly" as far as they're concerned.

[N4KVE 14]

ok, the last post makes sense.

NOW i understand.

if i had to use the weapon in self defence non-compliance would be a big deal.

i am tempted to comment on the laws of men now but i will refrain...

thanks for the welcome by the way.

however if you go to a gunshow, & purchase a Saiga that has already been converted to pistol grip/buttstock style, & it has no US parts, it's perfectly legal to own, as you didn't "import" or assemble" it, & have broken no laws. GARY N4KVE

 

 

I dont know if you just worded that wrong, but that is not completely true.

Okay, just to make sure I'm understanding the above, N4KVE are you saying that even if the rifle has been illegally imported or assembled, once you buy it (assuming a private party sale) all of its prior sins are forgiven and the new owner can never be held accountable for the fact that it does not conform to 922?

Correct. 922 applies to companies like Century arms so that if they import or build a rifle, it must have the correct number of US parts. It also applies to people who purchase a Saiga, or any post ban rifle, & convert it to pistol grip/buttstock configuration, as they have converted a "sporting weapon" into an "assault weapon". However if Jim Smith goes to a gunshow & in good faith purchases a MAK 90, or Saiga which is now in pistol grip/buttstock configuration, & has no US parts, he has broken no law, as he didn't import or assemble an "assault weapon". 922 applies to "importation & assembly", not ownership. There are letters from the ATF about this in the legal section of the FAL Files. This same letter also states that stripping a rifle to clean it & putting it back together does not count as assembly. Neither does inserting a mag. GARY N4KVE Edited April 14, 2010 by N4KVE

[chevyman097 2,579]

Guess its your word, against theirs....Ill make sure im compliant. Dealing with the ATF.....no thanks!

[nalioth 405]

This same letter also states that stripping a rifle to clean it & putting it back together does not count as assembly. Neither does inserting a mag.

So please tell us why they included "magazine parts" on the 922r list, then.

[N4KVE 14]

This same letter also states that stripping a rifle to clean it & putting it back together does not count as assembly. Neither does inserting a mag.

So please tell us why they included "magazine parts" on the 922r list, then.

Because they include the mag as part of the gun, but inserting a mag in a gun does not assemble a gun. I had a conversation with an ATF tech agent at the last SHOT SHOW that was in Orlando, & I asked this exact question, & that's what he told me. Go to the FAL FILES & scroll down to the Legal section, & read the 922 letter from the ATF. Importation, & assembly. Not ownership. Of course, this being a free country, we all can do as we wish within the law, & if adding more US parts to a gun than is required allows some people to sleep better at night, that's OK by me. However my avatar, which is my Ham Radio callsign, can easily be traced to my address, & I sleep just fine at night. While I have never assembled or converted a rifle, I do own a few MAK 90's that look pre ban style, & I purchased them that way, & I don't see any "made in USA" markings anywhere. However, my Saiga .308 which was converted by a reputable gunsmith, does have the required US parts. GARY N4KVE

Edited April 14, 2010 by N4KVE

[nalioth 405]

You keep bringing up "a letter".

 

ATF letters are only "binding" (loosely) for the person that they write to (that is, until they reverse themselves).

 

I have seen "letters" that say "inserting a magazine is considered 'assembling' the weapon".

 

 

Best thing to do is consult your lawyer (please don't write the revenuers) on what it means. . .

 

 

Until then, all my stuff is 922r compliant with any magazine.

[N4KVE 14]

Not to worry, I will not write any letters to the ATF. Until then, we agree to disagree. By the way, I see you're from Houston. My life was saved last year by a doctor at the Texas Heart Institute. Baylor College of Medicine. St Luke's Episcopal Hospital, so I have a new respect for anyone from that city. Thank you. GARY N4KVE

[nalioth 405]

Until then, we agree to disagree.

Unfortunately, "disagreeing" with the wrong "interpretation" will court a federal felony.

[N4KVE 14]

Well, nobody knows anybody whose been prosecuted for a 922 violation, but I feel I've made my point & will now gracefully recuse myself from this thread. I do believe the 922 rules deal with importation & assembly, not ownership,& I sleep well knowing my 2 MAK 90's which I purchased non compliant are legal to own as I didn't import or modify them. Again, thanks for being from Houston where I had life saving heart surgery. GARY N4KVE

[sailor 6]

Nalioth - while discussing the 922r fiasco (my feelings), I would bet you know if the factory threads on a Saiga 7.62x39 count as an extra 922 point (15 original Russian parts, rather than 14), as with the Saiga 12 choke threaded barrels. I mention this only because of the fairly recent number of Saigas with factory threaded barrels (mine is threaded), and the lack of mention of this in the checkoff list for compliance. Could be a significant count difference to be aware of, if true - needing one more USA part to convert legally. I don't know if that is so.

[nalioth 405]

Nalioth - while discussing the 922r fiasco (my feelings), I would bet you know if the factory threads on a Saiga 7.62x39 count as an extra 922 point (15 original Russian parts, rather than 14), as with the Saiga 12 choke threaded barrels. I mention this only because of the fairly recent number of Saigas with factory threaded barrels (mine is threaded), and the lack of mention of this in the checkoff list for compliance. Could be a significant count difference to be aware of, if true - needing one more USA part to convert legally. I don't know if that is so.

The threads do not count toward 922r.

 

What you install on them does.

[sailor 6]

Thanks for that, makes life just a little bit easier!