evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted June 13, 2010 Report Share Posted June 13, 2010 Guys, I did the best I could. I think I need to readjust the spring tension in these drums or lube them more. They are set at 2 1/4 turns. I am getting some failures to feed. I'm not sure if it is deformed ammo (this Universal gets out of round easily), spring tension, or the ACE recoil pad on the S12 in the second video. Anyway, these things require some tweaks here and there, but I'll get some really good videos up soon. These videos aren't bad, but they are not quite what I had in mind. I would like to achieve at least 98% reliabilty while drum dumping. Enjoy! 5 MD-20 drum dumps Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tsawy93 19 Posted June 13, 2010 Report Share Posted June 13, 2010 Wow, I better buy more shells!!!It sure doesn't take long to empty. I would appreciate any updates on the fine tuning as I hope to receive my drum soon... Thanks for sharing... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted June 13, 2010 Report Share Posted June 13, 2010 A lot of people think a guns reliability should be tested with the factory 5rd mag. In my opinion I think the test should be with a 20rd drum. The drums exerts more spring tension on the bottom of the bolt. And the 5rder probably exerts the least out of all mags... In my opinion the ultimate test is firing some universal from our fully loaded drum at the max spring tension, from the hip so the gun can recoil more to the rear. If it still ejects fine you know your gun is reliably. If it can't it is likely boarderline with other mags as well. The only tweaks you really should do to our drum is adjusting the spring tension. A minimum of 2 revs empty. I do have suggested ways to lubricate the drum in the user's guide just because some guy's will regardless of what I say. But I have not ever found a single benefit from lubricating a drum. I never lubricate or adjust the spring in any drum I use in my guns. And the only thing I ever clean on one is just the clear or smoke covers to get the soot off from firing... I have seen plenty of new out of box guns cycle universal from our drum at factory spring tension. Thats the max setting of 3 revs empty. And the setting needed to fire most high brass. And I have seen plenty that won't. I picked up 2 saiga-12 about a month ago for a friend and his father. They was only one serial number between the 2 guns. One was smooth right out of the box and funtioned a fully loaded, max spring tensioned drum fine and the other would not. About 30 minutes of tweaking the gun solved it. For example only that gun's biggest problems in order of most problematic and energy robbing were it had a very chunky locking and unlocking of the bolt. Fixed by slightly rounding and smoothing the trouble corner in the carrier. And a couple springs had too many coils. It had extra coils in the extractor spring. Removed on a grinder (you have to be very careful with your extractor spring tweaks, if you remove too much it will drop the shell during extraction!). It had extra coils in the front recoil spring as well. Removed with wire cutters. And I polished all the main contacting surfaces in the gun. Assuming your gas ports are all there, properly sized, and aligned I'm 100% confidant a few minor tweaks will get low brass ejecting fine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hobbyshooter 59 Posted June 13, 2010 Report Share Posted June 13, 2010 You were using winchester universal bulk pack? If so, that's likely the cause of your problems. Try remington or federal. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sumsky 115 Posted June 14, 2010 Report Share Posted June 14, 2010 I never get tired of watching S12's in action. More! More! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted June 14, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2010 Mike, I appreciate the knowledge on the drums and I couldn't ask for a better guy to get it from. I may just wind them back to 3 turns and try again. It is funny you would mention the locking and unlocking of the bolt. One of the S12s has a spot that I noticed some mushrooming in the groove where it locks up. I haven't seen that condition in my other S12s. I am starting to notice all of the spots where the factory uses a certain machining technique for speed in manufacturing and not necessarily for reliability. Yes they are all different. All three of mine have exhibited different characteristics and have needed different levels of tweaking. It is a constant learning process for me and I enjoy the stimulation. The first two I bought, after some work, will dump a 12 round Surefire mag nearly every time without fail. When there is a failure, it is usually the shell catching on the surface that the extractor rests against. That is what the majority of my failures were with the drums too. I have already done port work to all of them and it looks like I am down to very small details now. My Saigas have been the most fun of anything I have owned. They have been very challenging and rewarding at the same time. Besides, what the hell can beat dumping a shitload of 12ga at one setting? That was my whole point in getting these drums. Maximum adrenaline rush. I'm glad I finally got some of these drums and I can't wait to get my hands on your doublestacks. Thank you and keep up the great work. Hobbyshooter, I thought the challenge of firing Winchester Universal was the fun part I may bring some Federal next time just to see how much better it is. That's it.... two 5 Md-20 dump videos.... Winchester vs. Federal. Yeah.... a bulk pack shootout, literally. I appreciate the input. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted June 14, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2010 I never get tired of watching S12's in action. More! More! More coming soon. I've got a few issues to work out. I appreciate the response and it's people like you that make me want to put up a better video each time. I'm glad you enjoy it. The next ones should go a little better. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
arsenal-junkie 0 Posted June 14, 2010 Report Share Posted June 14, 2010 very awesome, i think we should start calling mag dumps "drum Dumps" since mike has sold probably 80% of us drums ever since you helped me anthony i have been dumping federal bulk left and right, up and down, side to side and all around. i would totally try a federal vs. winchester vid it would be very interesting and of course.. fun to watch as always! but than again no failures with universal means..... Boy you got a big badass zombie slayin mother fuc*er! thanks for the vids man keep it up Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted June 14, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2010 Good to hear from you AJ and glad to hear you are enjoying your S12. Yes, more dump videos are in order. A guy at the range said "You could really mess with a man's mind with that thing." I said "I'd hate to be running from it, the odds of survival wouldn't be very good." Quote Link to post Share on other sites
arsenal-junkie 0 Posted June 14, 2010 Report Share Posted June 14, 2010 A guy at the range said "You could really mess with a man's mind with that thing." I said "I'd hate to be running from it, the odds of survival wouldn't be very good." lol i love it. even when i take my S12 out to our range it's like alot of the guys never knew something so amazing ever existed. it's definitly an intimidator. than they feel like crap for spending so much money on a browning semi-auto Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TheKid 3 Posted June 14, 2010 Report Share Posted June 14, 2010 Very cool videos...now make a trip to KY and we'll hit the big range..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted June 14, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2010 Very cool videos...now make a trip to KY and we'll hit the big range..... If I run out of work anytime soon, I'd love to come up that way for a few days and blast with you guys. From the look of your range.... I may never want to leave. Looks like Heaven.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hobbyshooter 59 Posted June 14, 2010 Report Share Posted June 14, 2010 (edited) I've seen winchester universal jam up a mossberg 500 pump! The hulls and the brass are thinner than any other 12 gauge round you can buy. The hull that jammed up the MB apparently the brass ring swelled so much it stuck to the chamber. I had to hammer the guns butt to the ground to get that hull free. The funny thing was that as I was doing this an old man came walking up. I thought it was a ranger that was going to hassle me for being unsafe but it turned out he was gathering hulls to reload. He saw the Win Universal hulls by my feet and me beating the buttstock on the ground and said that's why he never re-loads that "universal crap". So yes, you can get your gun to cycle it, but at least 1% of a bulk pack of universal crap will be so piss poor out of tolerance that it simply won't cycle in any gun. Edited June 14, 2010 by hobbyshooter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted June 14, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2010 I've seen winchester universal jam up a mossberg 500 pump! The hulls and the brass are thinner than any other 12 gauge round you can buy. The hull that jammed up the MB apparently the brass ring swelled so much it stuck to the chamber. I had to hammer the guns butt to the ground to get that hull free. The funny thing was that as I was doing this an old man came walking up. I thought it was a ranger that was going to hassle me for being unsafe but it turned out he was gathering hulls to reload. He saw the Win Universal hulls by my feet and me beating the buttstock on the ground and said that's why he never re-loads that "universal crap". So yes, you can get your gun to cycle it, but at least 1% of a bulk pack of universal crap will be so piss poor out of tolerance that it simply won't cycle in any gun. When I was viewing the videos I noticed a few shots that had less recoil and what looked like unburnt powder coming from the barrel on those particular shots. It was a darker discharge than usually comes out of the weapon. I haven't been shotgunning long, so I'm not sure if this is what I am really seeing or not. It may have been the shot moving at a slower speed, enabling the camera to 'capture' it in the recording. The best I have done with the Winchester stuff was 98% reliability in an S12. I was using 12 round SGMs. The drag from a loaded drum seems to make reliability much more of a challenge with garbage ammo. I'm going to do a few more minor tweaks and see what happens. My ports are GTG and the only real resistance in the action is where the bolt locks and unlocks. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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