Help for a newbie

[kdt1961 0]

I want to get a .308 semi-auto rifle, and was considering building an FAL variant. However, with the lack of FAL kits and cost of kits + receiver, the Saiga seems like a very good option. Is there a thread that describes how to convert the Saiga to a pistol grip configuration, with detailed pictures, etc? Is converting the .308 (except for the magazines) the same as converting a 7.62x39 Saiga? I'm mainly interested in doing the stock and pistol grip, plus possibly welding on a muzzle brake. I realize that I will need 6 US parts to be legal.

 

Also, how is accuracy affected by doing the conversion?

Do you have to replace the Saiga trigger group, and if so, do the US made AK trigger groups work in the .308?

 

Has any one tried milsurp ammo in these, or are the Saiga's fickle with ammo?

 

I've seen threads on doing Galil magazine conversion, but unless you can afford 5 or more hi-cap Galil magazines (for a standard combat load) it seems that this is more for show than for go if the SHTF. Is there a M-14 magazine conversion, or one that uses cheaper mags?

 

Lots of questions, but thanks in advance!!

Dean

[chips 0]

i havent converted mine, but it seems like everyone on this forum that has a converted saiga has put in an ak 47 trigger group. i think you have to put in a new trigger group in order to attach a pistol grip. i know there was a member on here who was going to begin production on stocks with a pistol grip attached to the buttstock, so there would be no need for any modifications

[kdt1961 0]

I figured out how much I could get a Saiga for and how much all the parts cost to make it look like an AK, and realized that it might be fun to do, but wasn't cost effective at all, because you still end up with a single stack magazine (unless you want to grind and weld so that you can use a $100 magazine.) For that much money, you might as well buy an STG-58 from Enterprise Arms for $599, which is the cadillac of FAL's.

 

 

I ended up buying one of these rifles pictured below:

 

 

It is a Cetme Rifle that uses 20 round magazines that cost $4 each. It was built from a parts kit, has NEW furniture, US made receiver and comes with 2 20 round magazines. I bought the gun from Southern Ohio Guns (SOG) for $288. Yes, that is correct: $288, CHEAPER than a factory Saiga. SOG gives you a 6 month guarantee to exchange the weapon for another if you are dissatisfied for ANY reason. If you get the weapon and don't like something about it, send it back and get another, no questions asked. I found out about these at Cetme Rifles

 

If you don't like the CETME, SOG sells an HK G-3 for $419.

 

The Saiga shotguns are awesome and unmatched, but it looks like the .308 is no bargain at all.

[Bossman 1]

Hmmm,a CETME hammered together by the chimpanzees at century.......

No thank you,I`ll stick with my saiga.

[kdt1961 0]

If it is hammered together by the chimps at Century and it is a POS, then at least the seller (Southern Ohio Guns) gives me 6 months to return it. It's a no lose situation. When you buy a Century, the first thing you must do is completely dissassemble and thoroughly clean and lube BEFORE shooting it. That solves 95% of the problems people have had with these. Because the CETME uses a rolling block, blowback system, (for self adjusting headspace) you need to make sure that the "chimps at century" didn't grind off the back of the bolt to get it within specs. If they did, then I send it back to SOG and get another one. Southern Ohio Guns 6 month return policy takes the risk out of buy a Century build.

 

My point is that it seems people spend alot of money on the Saiga .308 to build it into an assault type weapon, when there are other alternatives out there. Enterprise sells an excellent FAL Austrian STG-58 build for $599. I also see that Dragunov parts kits are starting to hit the market.

 

I agree that for a 7.62x39 build Saiga is the way to go. I also have a Saiga 12 guage shotgun and it is unmatched by anything else.

 

If you are going to buy a Saiga in .308 and leave it alone, then it is cost effective. The minute you start adding things, then you have to look at the alternatives, especially if you want high capacity magazines.

 

If you go to Cetme Rifles Webpage you will see that the people who have bought the Century Cetme within the last month or two are VERY happy with them, AS LONG AS THEY CLEAN THE CRAP OUT OF IT BEFORE THEY SHOOT IT. IF they don't clean them, then the guns jam, fail to eject, misfire, etc. and they are not happy with them.

 

For a $300, semi-automatic .308 with high capacity magazines (that are $4 a piece) and a 6 month satisfaction guarantee, I don't think I am taking too big of a risk. If it turns out to be a piece of crap, then I give it back.

Dean

[Onepoint 0]

Well the only disadvantages the Saiga has is the mags and barrel length IMO. !6" is too short, 22" is too long for my taste.

 

Doing a conversion of it doesn't cost that much if you do it yourself. You get a brand new rilfe, chrome lined barrel, and it can shoot any ammo.

 

The Cetmes are a good buy, but have some problems. In December a local gun shop had 2 "Black widdows" come back with cracked recievers. Don't know what the whole story was, but they went back to Century. You will find most will tell you to only use Nato milsurp ammo in the Cetme.

 

But what the heck its your money, spend it how you want.

Edited January 31, 2004 by Onepoint

[Sheik Yerbouti 0]

I also see that Dragunov parts kits are starting to hit the market.

Hmmm. Probably Romak III kits, not Dragunovs. If you are talking about the ones that Centerfire and Joeken are selling, definitely Romaks. Real Dragunovs are a different operating system. The difference between a Saiga and a Romak are much smaller, as a Romak is a true AK design.

 

Still, there is a lot to be said for converting the Saiga, and if the AWB sunsets, cheap high cap mags will be plentiful.

 

Given the choice between a FAL and a CETME/HK, I'll take the FAL any time. The recoil-operated action of the CETME/HK design induces much more recoil than a 308Win should have, and the FAL is much more flexible than the HK when it comes to digesting different kinds of ammo. Plus, the FAL is just easier to maintain, not to mention more ergonomic. OTOH, HKs have the edge in accuracy.

 

Each to his own, however. The great thing about the USA is that we have choices.

[kdt1961 0]

A follow up on the CETME. I received it last week from Southern Ohio Guns. Fit and finish are outstanding. All tolerances within spec, barrel in excellent condition. I dissassembled it and cleaned it thoroughly. Came with 2 20 round mags which both fit. I couldn't wait until next week to shoot it so I went out behind my house in the freezing rain and put 5 rounds into the cardboard at 50 yards. The first was a flyer (my fault, not being used to the trigger). The next 4 rounds went into a 1.5" group. The recoil was minimal for a .308 (delayed blowback, rolling block) and the rifle was very comfortable, lighter than my friends STG58. The trigger had some creep, but with some valve grinding compound, I will work that out. I'd recommend this to anyone who wants a good quality semi-auto .308. If you get an extra $300, this gun is a keeper.

Thanks,

Dean

PS I write this as a follow up to my original post. I won't be posting on this BB any more.

[24kshooter 0]

Ambitious project - post pictures when done.