AK conversion or M4?

[vshelnutt 0]

Hello, I'm new to this forum and I just got my first saiga 7.62x39 rifle. I want to convert it, but the AK stock seems to be more trouble than its worth with the trigger. I'd like to get some opinions from people who are a little more experienced and knowledgeable when it comes to conversions.

 

Here is what I'm thinking:

 

tapco t6 M4 stock: Apparently with this new version, the grip actually screws into the bottom of the stck itself, so there is no need to move the trigger...the only downside I can see to this is that after shooting it for the firdt time, I realize now that the trigger is pretty rough. has anyone tried the kit that only replaces the rear portion of the trigger? Here is a link to the T6 stock:http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=saiga+t6+tapco+stock&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&cid=14540743668869121318&ei=uUdXTJeIHI7EzAXVwuTTBA&sa=title&ved=0CBUQ8wIwATgA#p">here

 

Quad Rail Forend: http://www.combathunting.com/QUAD_RAILS_HANDGUARD-Saiga_7_62_Rifle_Quad_Rail_Handguard.html">link to forend I'm pretty positive this is the forend I want. I really like the look. I would also attach an inverted pistol grip. not sure what type of optics I would want.

 

with these mods, I plan on using a surefire 30 round magazine made for saiga, so i dont have to put in a bullet ramp or modify my mags/ gun. these mags are expensive, but I only want one or two and there is a reason i want them - its american made.

 

in this configuration I would have an american magazine (3 parts), american stock (1 part) and not that i need it, but an american forend. that should leave me with only 9 foreign parts and I didnt make any permanant mods, so if the democrats in office decide to pull any new crap laws, I could just convert back to the sporting config and they cant say crap.

 

I guess my main questions are #1, is this going to be some cheesy piece that I'm going to be deisappointed with after i spend $160+ i mods?

 

2: it seems to me that just the installation of a pistol grip would improve the way the trigger feels. has anyone used the t6 stock with the factory trigger? did it feel like changing the stock improved the trigger feel?

 

#3: I'm tall and have long arms. does the fact that the grip is further back on the T6 stock make any difference in pull length, or was this accounted for in the design. the stock seems a little short in the pictures I've seen, but it is adjustable. that being said, the AK stock also looks pretty tiny. has anyone used both?

 

#4 does anyone have any suggestions on how to make my planned conversion better functioning?

 

#5 should I just do the work and convert it to the traditional AK look, or does it seem like I actually have a good idea for a first timer?

 

please help me decide, guys! The more I research, the harder it is to decide what I want to go with!

[chapnelson 2]

The Tapco stock/grip for unconverted Saigas is comparable to the same LOP grip/trigger reach as a conversion.

You'll just have a longer overall gun, so you'll have to look a little further for the sights. It will make it

much easier to restore to the sporting stock later if you want to, as you will not have moved the trigger.

 

I am also tall, with long arms, and I have found I do not enjoy the M4 style adjustable stock. The argument for

that style is that you'll keep the same LOP while wearing layers of gear/clothing. Only you know if you'll be

doing that often. I've found most just pull it all the way out for firing, then collapse it for storing.

 

Here's the great thing though, if you set it up and don't like it, no problem. Post the parts you don't want on here

for sale, and go buy another style.

[rob-cubed 74]

Welcome to the forum!

 

A basic Saiga x39 conversion was my first introduction to amateur gunsmithing and is surprisingly easy. Reconsider spending the money and time to add a pistol grip and a new fire control group. It's worth it. Some of the YouTube tuts are great and there's plenty of good advice on this forum.

 

You will benefit from a *much* nicer trigger once moved forward, and a shorter rifle overall without sacrificing any LOP. If you want a NATO length stock, you'll also have more choices once you add the pistol grip.

Edited August 3, 2010 by rob-cubed

[vshelnutt 0]

okay so the m4 is too short then cuz thats always an issue with me is the stock being too short.

 

so that really narrows it down for me to either NATO size AK stock, or the bolt on dragunov stock. not sure how i feel about turning a mid-range assualt rifle into a sniper look...butt he question here is, which one suits my build better? does anyone know which has a longer length of pull? just slapping a dragunov stock on an calling it a day sure would be cheaper and easier...

 

but now i'm kinda leaning to the AK conversion simply because its what the gun was designed for, plus as mentioned better handling.. are the kits with the drill bits and other hardware to convert a good deal? i noticed theyre 30-40 dollars and i could probably scrounge up the right size tools and hardware at the shop...but new bits cut a lot cleaner.

 

does anyone know a good, cheap site where i can get everything needed to make the conversion so i dont have to seperate shipping fees?

[rob-cubed 74]

does anyone know a good, cheap site where i can get everything needed to make the conversion so i dont have to seperate shipping fees?

 

Carolina Shooter's Supply has everything you need (bullet guide, tap, G2 trigger, your choice of different stocks and PGs). I believe there is a member's discount if you look in their section of the forum.

 

Mississippi Auto Arms also has a great selection of stuff.

 

Keep in mind the bullet guide is independent of the PG/trigger conversion. You can keep using Saiga mags and skip this step for now. The only real advantage of the bullet guide is to use cheap, mil-surp mags.

 

The NATO length stocks are the longest I am aware of, and comparable to the current monte-carlo style stock currently on the Saiga. You could add a recoil pad to most stocks if you still don't feel like it's long enough.

[vshelnutt 0]

okay, so heres what im looking at now...

 

KVAR nato length stock, tapco single hook G2 trigger group, ERGO AK grip, grip nut, bullet guide kit....

 

am i missing anything? i notice some kits come with a retaining plate. will i need one? also how hard is it to add a BHO lever? mine wasnt equipped with one. its not that big of a deal to me if its going to be a lot of additional work/risk to install when i do the conversion.

 

also, why is carolina shooters supply triggers almost 15 dollars cheaper than diznags? is the customization for the BHO only difference between the two? is thats the case i'll go with carolinaSS because a lot of their items im buying are cheaper.

 

oh and one last question before i click the buy button. Is there any way to tell if the pistol grip hole has already been cut before I begin the conversion, or will I not know i need to cut the hole out untill its the point of no return?

Edited August 4, 2010 by CommieGunner

[MN.9130 44]

I can answer a few of those questions, others will have to chime in to fill in the gaps!

 

i notice some kits come with a retaining plate. will i need one?

You do not NEED one, however, they are generally regarded as an inexpensive way to make your FCG conversion go easily. I would heartily recommend one.

 

also, why is carolina shooters supply triggers almost 15 dollars cheaper than diznags? is the customization for the BHO only difference between the two?

The difference you are noticing is between STOCK Tapco G2 Triggers (Which fit "normal" AKs such as WASRs) and G2s modified to fit converted Saigas. You, obviously, want the latter. Here's the thing: at CSS, stock G2s are roughly $28 USD, Modified G2s are roughly $50 (they include a plate, though). Dinzag's modified G2s are $39 USD, but do not include a plate. He sells the plates separately for $7 USD, bringing the total to... roughly $50 USD.

 

Conclusion: G2s already modified to work in your converted Saiga rifle cost pretty much the same. A G2 that has not been modified, and will require work done to work in your Saiga, are cheaper. Personally, I would recommend getting one already good to go, drop it in, and enjoy shooting the better trigger!

[bigdog6421 2]

beware that once you start the conversion, you WILL like the drug, and you WILL be back for more and more. My advice follows most of the group, and is to go ahead and convert to the grip, moving the trigger group. This gives you the most options, and lets face it. Most folks dont buy Saigas beacuse they are cool sporters (even though they kinda are), we buy them to make them super cool AK style, large capacity, tacta-cool weapons. You do not have to do it all at once, places like carolina shooters offers great starter kits as well as links to videos taking you step by step. The bolt on stock/grips are handy, but will leave you wanting more.

[paprotective 362]

To see if you have a FACTORY trigger hole cut..

 

remove top cover and recoil spring..

 

look into the trigger area.. you will usually see a rectangular hole and a square hole (that appear filled in.. by being covered by the PLATE under the receiver that you remove when doing the conversion).

 

MOST 2009 and 2010 models have the hole cut in the 7.62x39 aand 5.45x39 versions..

 

 

Al

[icefire 10]

#3: I'm tall and have long arms. does the fact that the grip is further back on the T6 stock make any difference in pull length, or was this accounted for in the design. the stock seems a little short in the pictures I've seen, but it is adjustable. that being said, the AK stock also looks pretty tiny. has anyone used both?

 

#4 does anyone have any suggestions on how to make my planned conversion better functioning?

 

#5 should I just do the work and convert it to the traditional AK look, or does it seem like I actually have a good idea for a first timer?

 

please help me decide, guys! The more I research, the harder it is to decide what I want to go with!

 

 

I started with the T6 stock, see my first pic. i didnt like the trigger pull, so I converted it. Was REALLY easy! I didnt think it would be THAT easy. Then I installed my own bullet guide, another thing i didnt think I could do. then you can use US made tapco mags or any com mil-bloc mags. Much cheaper.

 

I'll also post a pic of the gun after conversion...and I have a MI quad rail on it now, as well. The remains of the T6 stock are still on the gun now, ( changed out the PG for another tapco one for the conversion), but I will be selling them off soon, if you want the T6 set, with all parts, for about $50 plus shipping. It is all there, screw holes already drilled, and in like new shape. let me know....I'm gonna spring for an Ace Side Folding stock...

 

BEFORE conversion: Strange trigger pull, unbalanced, and just unwieldy...

Edited August 7, 2010 by icefire

[icefire 10]

AFTER conversion:

 

handles so much better now, better trigger pull, better balance, and of course the "AK cool factor"...

Edited August 7, 2010 by icefire