Dungchewer 1 Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 (edited) I just got done shooting my new Saiga 12 for the first time. I still have a silly grin on my face. I shot a full Remington 100 shot value pack through it. My 7th shot FTE, But the other 99 cycled perfectly. It seemed to run great. But when I got home and took it apart I seen where my bolt carrier and the rear of the receiver were beat up from the two slamming into each other. I know they sell buffers for them, But I don't really like the idea of using them. I figured if the gun needed a buffer it would come with one. I had the gas system set to 2 and like I said the gun is brand new. Should I be worried? Or is this just normal? Edited January 14, 2011 by Dungchewer Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KC913 324 Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 Sounds like it could be a little over-gassed. I would try an aftermarket gas plug that gives you more than the 2 factory gas settings. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dungchewer 1 Posted January 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 Sounds like it could be a little over-gassed. I would try an aftermarket gas plug that gives you more than the 2 factory gas settings. It is a 19" and has 3 very easy to see ports. What is the best gas plug to go with? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KC913 324 Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 MD Arms' V-Plug seems to be the most popular plug right now and it's also the cheapest. https://www.mdarms.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=13_11&products_id=16&zenid=chmp9esqpi28d44d167rieg8t1 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JAldrich2008 28 Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 A buffer doesn't hurt either, I got one for a little added protection and I haven't had a single problem with it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gregomega 929 Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 you could also try using Federal 100 RVPack? it might have a lil less ooomph. I consider winchester value pack to work the worst but might work well in your gun. Then Federal works good in my gun, and remmington works the best out of the bird shot. High brass and above work great aswell. I have a gunfixer and it works fine. But also MDarms is a great company aswell. Molot grips are some of the best out there. Opinions vary. I dont use a buffer in either of mine, but might work well for your gun. Might want to try a different gas puck? I run a standard gogun twister in my one port gun, and the new king puck in my 3 port. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dungchewer 1 Posted January 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 Thanks for the help, I'm gonna order the MD plug. Today I'm gonna buy a value pack of Winchester and see if they also do it. Just out of curiosity, Is it easier to deal with a gun that over gasses or one that is under gassing? I'm planing on shooting the crap out of this gun to make sure it's worth doing a conversion on. Thanks again guys Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gregomega 929 Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 Thanks for the help, I'm gonna order the MD plug. Today I'm gonna buy a value pack of Winchester and see if they also do it. Just out of curiosity, Is it easier to deal with a gun that over gasses or one that is under gassing? I'm planing on shooting the crap out of this gun to make sure it's worth doing a conversion on. Thanks again guys I would buy just a 25 pack of the rounds you wana test. that way if they dont work for you you dont have 75-90 extra rounds that dont work in your gun. I would rather have an over gassed gun than an under gassed. You can always throw a buffer on it and get a plug if its really that over gassed. If its under gassed you have a hard time cycling, which in my experience sucks. you might have to open up ports and polish or even drill more ports depending. Again, Opinions vary Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PYRO 44 Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 (edited) Is this gun factory new and never modified? Did you try setting 1 ? Edited January 14, 2011 by PYRO Quote Link to post Share on other sites
slostang 80 Posted January 15, 2011 Report Share Posted January 15, 2011 +1 on the MD Arms V-plug. Just got mine in and it cant be beat and its only $20. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dungchewer 1 Posted January 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2011 It is brand new. No mods and no I didn't change the gas setting. I didn't know it was happening till I got it home and took it apart. So I figured it was running as it should on 2. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PYRO 44 Posted January 15, 2011 Report Share Posted January 15, 2011 (edited) If it were my gun, I'd try to figure out why it is acting as if it is very over gassed before I started throwing parts at it. I'd measure the size of the ports and compare the tension of the recoil spring to another S12 that is a factory gun that functions correctly to start with. From my understanding, these guns are built to fire high power ammo and not really intended for low brass without modifications. If yours is being damaged by low brass, it seems there might be a problem. That just what I would do,,,,,,,,,,,, Edited January 15, 2011 by PYRO Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted January 15, 2011 Report Share Posted January 15, 2011 (edited) Let me hazard a guess.... you can tell that the carrier is making contact with the trunnion because there are little spots where the paint is missing. The Kalashnikov design is a super precise action which, when properly gassed, the carrier travels the exact same distance every time for every round. It moves the exact same distance no matter what ammo you are using as long as the gas is properly regulated via regulator, piston, or port. The variations of powder charge do not affect the travel distance either. It travels the exact same distance no matter how much resistance is present in the action if it is properly gassed. It travels the exact same distance no matter how loose or tight your grip on the weapon is. If the carrier touches the trunnion during normal operation.... nevermind. Your weapon is overgassed. You need pucks, plugs, springs, and buffers. Edited January 15, 2011 by evlblkwpnz 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dungchewer 1 Posted January 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2011 Let me hazard a guess.... you can tell that the carrier is making contact with the trunnion because there are little spots where the paint is missing. Yep, that's is making me think I'm getting some contact. I did have the gun apart before I shot it. And the finish in both areas was there. In this pic where you see a bright spot the rear of the receiver also has a matching bright spot and all of the spots are rough. I've never seen this happen on any of my AK's. Is it something to worry about? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted January 15, 2011 Report Share Posted January 15, 2011 (edited) I would be worried when I started to see the trunnion begin to "mushroom" much like the top of a chisel does after a few thousand strikes... Until then, shoot it. Oh, and I agree with Evl, when the gun is running correctly, it doesn't matter if you've got it shouldered or not. I recently took mine down and reamed out the gas ports. Now I can fire it from the shoulder or the hip, with only minimal trunnion contact. I'm not worried about trunnion contact that minimal... Edited January 15, 2011 by Caged Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted January 15, 2011 Report Share Posted January 15, 2011 (edited) Normal. Here is something to think about.... How difficult would it be to make a Saiga 12, or any Kalashnikov, eject and feed reliably without making contact to the rear trunnion? It would have to travel to a very small 'sweet' spot every time. With variances in ammo, shooter style, action resistance, gas regulation, and environmental factors, it would be nearly impossible to have the perfect movement every time. Don't worry about it. Just be sure to always try the weapon on setting 1 first when you are trying ammos. If it does not cycle properly, then and only then do you use setting 2. Edited January 15, 2011 by evlblkwpnz 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted January 15, 2011 Report Share Posted January 15, 2011 (edited) Normal. Here is something to think about.... How difficult would it be to make a Saiga 12, or any Kalashnikov, eject and feed reliably without making contact to the rear trunnion? It would have to travel to a very small 'sweet' spot every time. With variances in ammo, shooter style, action resistance, gas regulation, and environmental factors, it would be nearly impossible to have the perfect movement every time. Don't worry about it. Just be sure to always try the weapon on setting 1 first when you are trying ammos. If it does not cycle properly, then and only then do you use setting 2. And then if it still doesn't work try 3, 4, and 5... If it doesn't work on 5, then the shell is a dud. Edited January 15, 2011 by Caged Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dungchewer 1 Posted January 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2011 Normal. Here is something to think about.... How difficult would it be to make a Saiga 12, or any Kalashnikov, eject and feed reliably without making contact to the rear trunnion? It would have to travel to a very small 'sweet' spot every time. With variances in ammo, shooter style, action resistance, gas regulation, and environmental factors, it would be nearly impossible to have the perfect movement every time. Don't worry about it. Just be sure to always try the weapon on setting 1 first when you are trying ammos. If it does not cycle properly, then and only then do you use setting 2. Thank you very much for the help. I'm a complete newb with the Saiga 12. So I kinda freaked out a little. From now on I will do like you said and start low and only move up if the gun actually requires it. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted January 15, 2011 Report Share Posted January 15, 2011 Normal. Here is something to think about.... How difficult would it be to make a Saiga 12, or any Kalashnikov, eject and feed reliably without making contact to the rear trunnion? It would have to travel to a very small 'sweet' spot every time. With variances in ammo, shooter style, action resistance, gas regulation, and environmental factors, it would be nearly impossible to have the perfect movement every time. Don't worry about it. Just be sure to always try the weapon on setting 1 first when you are trying ammos. If it does not cycle properly, then and only then do you use setting 2. Thank you very much for the help. I'm a complete newb with the Saiga 12. So I kinda freaked out a little. From now on I will do like you said and start low and only move up if the gun actually requires it. No big deal on the help. I was a newb 1 year and 5 days ago. I have learned a lot in the last year and may you gain as much as I have in your first year here. Welcome aboard and FTW!!! If you need help, just ask. Start at one and only use 2 as needed. If you can remember that, life will be good. With my first post, I was really just ribbing all of the.... "OMG Becky, your shit is overgassed and you need a thingamajig to make it all better!!!!" guys. Read it again, you might see the sarcasm in it. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paulyski 2,227 Posted January 15, 2011 Report Share Posted January 15, 2011 Let me hazard a guess.... you can tell that the carrier is making contact with the trunnion because there are little spots where the paint is missing. The Kalashnikov design is a super precise action which, when properly gassed, the carrier travels the exact same distance every time for every round. It moves the exact same distance no matter what ammo you are using as long as the gas is properly regulated via regulator, piston, or port. The variations of powder charge do not affect the travel distance either. It travels the exact same distance no matter how much resistance is present in the action if it is properly gassed. It travels the exact same distance no matter how loose or tight your grip on the weapon is. If the carrier touches the trunnion during normal operation.... nevermind. Your weapon is overgassed. You need pucks, plugs, springs, and buffers. Damn it evl... You got me there. I was thinking you were serious until I read your next post. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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