NewSaigaFan 1 Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 Hello. So, I know plenty about gas systems, and little to nothing about my new Saiga... I heard it was based on an A-K or something... What I'd like to do is skipping all the forum politics and whatnot, get my Saiga running in the most ideal fashion possible. This means, any ammo I dump in it I would like it to shoot. If it doesn't shoot birdshot at 100% that's fine but I would at least like 80% if that can happen. Likewise, if I ever decide I need a 3" buck or slug, I'd like to fire that without damage to the gun or any other negative issues. From my understanding there are quiet a few gas plugs on the market, they either seem to be compliance parts while offering more settings, a full open setting (gunfixer?) and then the TAC47 Auto-Plug. I'm not dumb. I know that if the gun's ports will not cycle bird on a full open setting, no plug out there will make that happen. What I do not know is the difference in my 107's plugs to what is required to shoot light stuff. I've read there isn't much rhyme or reason as to what I have for port or port size (it's a 107 with 24" barrel, made in 08). Is their a known number of ports and size I can adjust to, along with the Auto-Plug if that is a confirmed good product to get this as reliable as possible? I prefer the idea of the autoplug vs constantly adjusting and re-checking what setting. I need to knock the barrel off to cut it down anyhow. So I figure this is the time to adjust/open the ports. Advice? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
csmw 98 Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 (edited) Is their a known number of ports (19" gun) Put 4-ports on it, and it will run anything. Edited January 27, 2011 by C&S Metall-Werkes Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 Is their a known number of ports (19" gun) Put 4-ports on it, and it will run anything. +1 I have 4 @ .093" and I'll let the OP be the judge of whether or not it runs well with light loads on setting 2 with the factory regulator. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejy58DCoYKE I won a MD Arms V-Plug and hope to do a video with it when my S12 gets back from TAC47 (maybe 200 rounds ) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NewSaigaFan 1 Posted January 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 Perfect! Cool video by the way! I'm going to do the 4 ports at .093 / 3/32", and then either the AutoPlug or the V-Plug, unless anyone else has recommendations otherwise. Is there any way to know what the 24" gun has before pulling the barrel out? Is there a diagram of what 4 ports looks like (positioning) compared to whatever I have? For instance, if I have three in a line where would a fourth go? Etc. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
csmw 98 Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 Is there any way to know what the 24" gun has before pulling the barrel out? Is there a diagram of what 4 ports looks like (positioning) compared to whatever I have? For instance, if I have three in a line where would a fourth go? Etc. Just pull the bbl, chop it to 18-19" and drill your 4th port. They should be in a diamond pattern. It's really easy to do....no worries Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 (edited) Perfect! Cool video by the way! I'm going to do the 4 ports at .093 / 3/32", and then either the AutoPlug or the V-Plug, unless anyone else has recommendations otherwise. Is there any way to know what the 24" gun has before pulling the barrel out? Is there a diagram of what 4 ports looks like (positioning) compared to whatever I have? For instance, if I have three in a line where would a fourth go? Etc. They should be in a triangle. Being that your weapon is a 24", there is a possibilty that you just have 2 ports side by side. My 4 are in a diamond pattern. Pull the plug and piston and you should be able to see them. ETA: I ust got another Saiga 12 and I may try 5 or 6 small ports (~.070" or whatever it has from the factory)as an effort to reduce the ability for debris to enter the gas block through the ports. With 4 at .093, after about 150-200 rounds there is a pretty good 'shit biscuit' in there, but I haven't had failures due to it. I'm just on the quest for perfection. I will say that larger ports seem to not get clogged as easily. It is hard to tell though because all of my range trips have been different when it comes to # of rounds and brand of ammo fired. Thank you for the compliment on the video. I've been wearing that one out for a while. I have to get some new video up soon. Edited January 27, 2011 by evlblkwpnz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NewSaigaFan 1 Posted January 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 Great! This all seems very easy compared to my MP5 project. I was warned over and over how Saigas are hit or miss. I'm starting to think that's from people that just can't take 10 minutes to do a little research. I'll search for a tutorial on how to press the barrel out and get it chopped asap. I'm actually leaning on 16.5 with a perm attached polychoke, I don't think that will change the ports much at all. I'll pop the plug off and take a look tonight if I can get a chance. I'd really like this to be as reliable as possible with all ammo. So, no spring replacement if possible. Would there be any advantage is using a different thread pattern than factory seeing as I'll be perm attaching the choke? Ie: Is the Saiga poly-choke better or wors, more or less expensive than X brand or Y model? Have plans to polish it out, do the vplug or autoplug. I'm actually leaning auto plug, but I have ZERO idea of how it actually works.... How does it allow bird, bulk, and slugs all with the same setting? I get the idea it vents excess, I just don't understand how it "knows" what excess is... Anyone care to comment on that? I'd have a little more faith in the product if I understood how it worked. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
csmw 98 Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 (edited) and I may try 5 or 6 small ports (~.070" or whatever it has from the factory)as an effort to reduce the ability for debris to enter the gas block through the ports. With 4 at .093, after about 150-200 rounds there is a pretty good 'shit biscuit' in there, but I haven't had failures due to it. I'm just on the quest for perfection.. The difference in gas-block debris bewteen a 5-port and 6-port (w/ slightly smaller ports) gun, is negligable. Edited January 27, 2011 by C&S Metall-Werkes Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sapper1371usmc 107 Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 If your staying with a 24" bbl, I would advise not going with 4 ports at .093". Your gun would be severely overgassed, heck I believe it would be slightly overgased on a 19" model. Every Saiga I have worked on I have used 3 ports at .093" and I was able to fire Winny and Fed bulk packs 100%, but keep in mind that I also had my FCG, Bolt, And Carrier reshaped and polished. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NewSaigaFan 1 Posted January 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 If your staying with a 24" bbl, I would advise not going with 4 ports at .093". Your gun would be severely overgassed, heck I believe it would be slightly overgased on a 19" model. Every Saiga I have worked on I have used 3 ports at .093" and I was able to fire Winny and Fed bulk packs 100%, but keep in mind that I also had my FCG, Bolt, And Carrier reshaped and polished. No, I'm going to do 16.5 pinned with a polychoke to 18.5-19 or so. I'll do the 4 @ .093 a vplug or autoplug and call it good. I only bought the 24" because it was $450 last week in stock at my dealer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NewSaigaFan 1 Posted January 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 Bump with a question... I pulled out the plug and puck today to look at my ports. I can see two, but what has me curious is that although not so much in the photo, it really appears when I'm looking at it that the two ports are towards the front of the hole (ie: not centered). It APPEARS the only way to get two more ports in is to put them behind the other two in a square shape and not the recommended diamond. Is it possible I'm just not seeing it properly? I'll have to find a mirror and check in there later to confirm, in the meantime I figured I would consult the knowledge base. Thanks! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NewSaigaFan 1 Posted January 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2011 Normal? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KevenW 4 Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 just bought my gun wed. it only has one port, much larger than the 2 visible in newsaigafans pic. 10 rnds of wal mart fed low brass target and skeet through it, the second five as fast as i could pull the trigger, on setting two. worked fine. my serial starts with 08 so i think that means its was made in 08. why do i only have one port? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dwnthehatch 14 Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 (edited) just bought my gun wed. it only has one port, much larger than the 2 visible in newsaigafans pic. 10 rnds of wal mart fed low brass target and skeet through it, the second five as fast as i could pull the trigger, on setting two. worked fine. my serial starts with 08 so i think that means its was made in 08. why do i only have one port? I just picked mine up yesterday with a 1/21/09 factory inspection date and it has only 1 visible port. The other two were located using a dental pick. Edited January 30, 2011 by dwnthehatch Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scalilou 2 Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 Perfect! Cool video by the way! I'm going to do the 4 ports at .093 / 3/32", and then either the AutoPlug or the V-Plug, unless anyone else has recommendations otherwise. Is there any way to know what the 24" gun has before pulling the barrel out? Is there a diagram of what 4 ports looks like (positioning) compared to whatever I have? For instance, if I have three in a line where would a fourth go? Etc. They should be in a triangle. Being that your weapon is a 24", there is a possibilty that you just have 2 ports side by side. My 4 are in a diamond pattern. Pull the plug and piston and you should be able to see them. ETA: I ust got another Saiga 12 and I may try 5 or 6 small ports (~.070" or whatever it has from the factory)as an effort to reduce the ability for debris to enter the gas block through the ports. With 4 at .093, after about 150-200 rounds there is a pretty good 'shit biscuit' in there, but I haven't had failures due to it. I'm just on the quest for perfection. I will say that larger ports seem to not get clogged as easily. It is hard to tell though because all of my range trips have been different when it comes to # of rounds and brand of ammo fired. Thank you for the compliment on the video. I've been wearing that one out for a while. I have to get some new video up soon. Just curious, did you ever do the 5 or 6 port mod? If so, did it work? Ive always taken your advice by the way as far as performance mods and have gotten great results. My gun has the 4 ports at .093 and i can feed it anything. so thanks for the great advice Quote Link to post Share on other sites
csmw 98 Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 Just curious, did you ever do the 5 or 6 port mod? If so, did it work? I've done 5 and 6 ports on probably fifteen 12-12.5" guns. It's the way to go if you don't want to move your gas-assembly. My gun has the 4 ports at .093 and i can feed it anything. If it works, why change it. IMHO, 4-ports is optimal for 18-19" gun. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NewSaigaFan 1 Posted January 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 Just curious, did you ever do the 5 or 6 port mod? If so, did it work? I've done 5 and 6 ports on probably fifteen 12-12.5" guns. It's the way to go if you don't want to move your gas-assembly. My gun has the 4 ports at .093 and i can feed it anything. If it works, why change it. IMHO, 4-ports is optimal for 18-19" gun. I verified with a pin that I do in fact only have two ports. By this thread, since it's a 24" barrel that is not unusual. So no issue there. I do still have an issue that the two ports are not centered in the gas block. Also, they are angled at what appears to be 45º or so. Lastly, if I'm planning on 4 ports at 3/32 and a 16.5" barrel pinned with a polychoke to 18, should I make all the ports "fit" inside the hole even if it means going with a square pattern vs a diamond pattern? If I do a diamond, I'm fairly certain the "top" diamond port would be covered at least mostly. I made a picture showing the two ports I have now (in blue) and what it would look like as a square or diamond. Do the ports need to be at an angle like the current ones? Any opinions on whether a 4 port diamond or 4 port square at 3/32" each? Or maybe 5 port X at .077? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
csmw 98 Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 (edited) They are really forward....more than I personally like. If you are going to go with 4-ports, welding up the existing holes and remilling/drilling them is an option. I have welded up ports before (that were WAY off), and you need to be VERY careful you don't bleed any weld into the bore. Your 'square' pattern should work too. You also can remove material from the gas-block hole, as needed, to make your 4 ports fit. I am sure others here will chime in with other ideas. And yes, they need to be angled. Edited January 31, 2011 by C&S Metall-Werkes Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NewSaigaFan 1 Posted February 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 Good stuff! I'll look into opening the major up, but I don't really want to get into that recess before the threads. Someone else was talking about that on this forum. Will do on the angled. I'll chuck it up in a really good drill press or probably see if I can fit it in a mill to do that. Worst case I'll square it with four ports. Since the jury seems to be out on 5 smaller being better than 4 larger. If it was a rifled barrel and I was trying to "miss" the grooves I may feel differently, but on a shotgun I can't really see it's going to matter as a square vs a diamond. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
csmw 98 Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 Since the jury seems to be out on 5 smaller being better than 4 larger. 5 ports wont hurt anything....you can adjust everything with the regulator. I have only done 18-19" and 12-12.5" guns. Never did a 16". I would think 4 ports would work, but I really don't have first hand experience. You can always add another 5th port later, if neccassary. If it was me, I would do 4 ports and open them up a little, since you are 2-3" shorter than the norm.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NewSaigaFan 1 Posted February 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 Since the jury seems to be out on 5 smaller being better than 4 larger. 5 ports wont hurt anything....you can adjust everything with the regulator. I have only done 18-19" and 12-12.5" guns. Never did a 16". I would think 4 ports would work, but I really don't have first hand experience. You can always add another 5th port later, if neccassary. If it was me, I would do 4 ports and open them up a little, since you are 2-3" shorter than the norm.. Good plan. I'll leave enough room for a 5th port just in case. But yea, I think 4 at .09 will be plenty fine. Now I just need to know if I'm going to AutoPlug or Vplug it.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KevenW 4 Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 i've noticed that nobody will touch the autoplug vs v-plug for some reason.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NewSaigaFan 1 Posted February 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2011 i've noticed that nobody will touch the autoplug vs v-plug for some reason.... Yea noticed. I could give a shit about forum politics, I want to know if the autoplug will truly work for me. I can't even find anywhere that explains how it works. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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