LawAbidingCitizen 0 Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 Having a ball with it but had a question for you veterans. The gun will reliably cycle high brass and magnum shells all day but the Walmart low brass 2 3/4" stuff stovepipes and FTE consistently. What's wrong? I've done some searching and read the gas port threads and also some about the reduced tension spring and plug kits. I've checked my gas ports and there are three exposed. One is in plain sight, the others are hard to see but when I feel in there with a dental pick they appear to be unobstructed but are very close to the edge of the circular hole Ivan drilled in the gas block. Do I need these holes to be well free and clear or am I just getting impatient and need to break the gun in? Should I get the low brass reliability kit like Carolina Shooters sells? Do the gas block hole opening? Suggestions and comments welcome. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Aegi808 15 Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 break the gun in and make sure you are using the right gas settings. the first 200 rounds i put through my Vyktoria was all low brass birdshot and on setting 2, the next weekend i took her out i shot the same walmart winchester bulk pack on setting 1 no problems, just did my conversion and gonna try it out soon. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TheDriver 23 Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 I would try to figure out the exact diameter of your ports. What have you done to the gun already? Is it converted? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LawAbidingCitizen 0 Posted March 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 break the gun in and make sure you are using the right gas settings. There is always the possibility that I'm just impatient. Realistically I've put about a hundred shells through the thing. I always change the regulator setting depending on the shot used per http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/262-gas-regulator-adjustment/ so it's 1 for Magnum and high brass and 2 for the cheap shit. I would try to figure out the exact diameter of your ports. What have you done to the gun already? Is it converted? No real conversions to speak of... it's got a Tapco collapsing stock and pistol grip replacing the factory stock and a Pro mag 20 round drum. The FTE's occur with either magazine though obviously the 3" Magnum only works with the factory clip and that always cycles properly. Don't have a gauge or anything to measure the ports with. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TheDriver 23 Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 Yeah, keep breaking it in. Pauly will sell you some port gauges cheap. Won't hurt to do some hand cycles too. If you are up to it a conservative bolt polish might help. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
YOT 3,743 Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 (edited) You're going the right direction with the break-in and investigating port size. There is a lot of information in the stickies about this. You should also seriously think about polishing and re-profiling the the internal parts BEFORE worrying about spending money on a "low brass reliability kit". Again all of the information about doing that yourself is in the stickies, or there are business members that do it as a paid service if you don't think that's something you can do. That's a much better way to spend your dollars than on unnecessary parts, and an inevitable step in the solution to your cycling problems. Edited March 13, 2011 by Yeoldetool Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 (edited) I may be posting a video tomorrow that you may find interesting.... Look Ma, no low brass reliability kit and no "high brass break in". Edited March 13, 2011 by evlblkwpnz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LawAbidingCitizen 0 Posted March 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 (edited) Yeah, keep breaking it in. Pauly will sell you some port gauges cheap. Won't hurt to do some hand cycles too. If you are up to it a conservative bolt polish might help. I'll look for Pauly and port gauges. Might knock the gas block off it anyway just to make damn sure that last little bit of gas port isn't blocked and use a drill bit to check sizes. As for the bolt polish is that going to make a huge difference in cycling? A lot of what I see here looks to be a bit much... You're going the right direction with the break-in and investigating port size. There is a lot of information in the stickies about this. You should also seriously think about polishing and re-profiling the the internal parts BEFORE worrying about spending money on a "low brass reliability kit". Again all of the information about doing that yourself is in the stickies, or there are business members that do it as a paid service if you don't think that's something you can do. That's a much better way to spend your dollars than on unnecessary parts, and an inevitable step in the solution to your cycling problems. Thanks, at least I'm on the right track. I'm still wondering what the bolt polish has to do with cycling. Is there that much internal friction in these guns? And if internal friction is adding enough resistance to the equation why would you say the low tension spring won't help? I'm wanting to know the "why" here behind bolt polishing I guess. Will def read up on it more. I may be posting a video tomorrow that you may find interesting.... Look Ma, no low brass reliability kit and no "high brass break in". Post 'er up. Or just spill your guts here. I can't take another cheezy YouTube video made by someone with a face for radio. Text and pictures I can handle. Edited March 13, 2011 by LawAbidingCitizen Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bridis 319 Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 Re-profiling helps the most. It's like fast forwarding the break-in process. GL. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
YOT 3,743 Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 As for the bolt polish is that going to make a huge difference in cycling? A lot of what I see here looks to be a bit much... You're going the right direction with the break-in and investigating port size. There is a lot of information in the stickies about this. You should also seriously think about polishing and re-profiling the the internal parts BEFORE worrying about spending money on a "low brass reliability kit". Again all of the information about doing that yourself is in the stickies, or there are business members that do it as a paid service if you don't think that's something you can do. That's a much better way to spend your dollars than on unnecessary parts, and an inevitable step in the solution to your cycling problems. Thanks, at least I'm on the right track. I'm still wondering what the bolt polish has to do with cycling. Is there that much internal friction in these guns? And if internal friction is adding enough resistance to the equation why would you say the low tension spring won't help? I'm wanting to know the "why" here behind bolt polishing I guess. Will def read up on it more. I believe what it boils down to is that these guns were intended for battle with full power military loads, not the light field loads that are so cheaply available and extremely fun to shoot. Polishing and re-profiling reduce friction immensely, letting the action work easier. I did not say that a low tension spring wouldn't help. I said it is not needed if you gun is tuned properly for light loads. Also, there is more polishing than the just the bolt, i.e. the hammer face, rails, disconnector, and bolt carrier. The main reason for re-profiling the bolt is to more easily insert a loaded magazine on a closed bolt. It truly helps. Polishing is actually "accelerated wear". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LawAbidingCitizen 0 Posted March 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 Also, there is more polishing than the just the bolt, i.e. the hammer face, rails, disconnector, and bolt carrier. The main reason for re-profiling the bolt is to more easily insert a loaded magazine on a closed bolt. It truly helps. Polishing is actually "accelerated wear". Ah then that makes a lot more sense. Sounds like a lot of the polishing and whatnot I see in pics is just bling then. I'm off to the range to run a couple hundred more shells through it to break her in polish that action. Thanks you guys! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
YOT 3,743 Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 Also, there is more polishing than the just the bolt, i.e. the hammer face, rails, disconnector, and bolt carrier. The main reason for re-profiling the bolt is to more easily insert a loaded magazine on a closed bolt. It truly helps. Polishing is actually "accelerated wear". Ah then that makes a lot more sense. Sounds like a lot of the polishing and whatnot I see in pics is just bling then. I'm off to the range to run a couple hundred more shells through it to break her in polish that action. Thanks you guys! Cool, Have fun and enjoy. However, I don't think there have ever been enough 12 gauge shell made that shooting it will re-profile the bolt to make it easy to load on a closed bolt. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
csmw 98 Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 "low brass reliability kit". What is a low brass reliability kit? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gpqueen 545 Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 "low brass reliability kit". What is a low brass reliability kit? A kit we sell to run the low brass ammo. http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-967/Saiga-12-low-brass/Detail Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LawAbidingCitizen 0 Posted March 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 (edited) Seems today was a lot better at the low grade Winchester bulk. I had about 25 left and a whole crapload of cheap 2.75" stuff that I picked up at a gun show here on a lark for around the same price as the Wallyworld stuff. The cheap gun show stuff was just that... crap. Will probably work fine in a pump action but it couldn't make the Saiga cycle on any setting. The Walmart Winchester bulk ammo was cycling a lot better today and I was able to shoot multiple magazines on gas setting 2 with only 1 in 5 FTE. All fed flawlessly. Guess when I clean it out tonight I'll have a look at the bottom of the bolt, carrier and hammer and see where and how it's wearing. Might get the Dremel out but doubt I'll be putting Pauly out of business. His work sure is pretty though. If I had money to burn I'd do it just for the looks at the range. Edited March 14, 2011 by LawAbidingCitizen Quote Link to post Share on other sites
YOT 3,743 Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 Glad you had a good day. Just think of the looks you'll be getting at the range when that thing purrs. And yeah, I think Pauly has definitely found his nitch. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
robertakamagoo 0 Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 I shot my gun works nice the wally bulk ammo have to keep It on setting two. Not one jam. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TheDriver 23 Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 Seems today was a lot better at the low grade Winchester bulk. I had about 25 left and a whole crapload of cheap 2.75" stuff that I picked up at a gun show here on a lark for around the same price as the Wallyworld stuff. The cheap gun show stuff was just that... crap. Will probably work fine in a pump action but it couldn't make the Saiga cycle on any setting. The Walmart Winchester bulk ammo was cycling a lot better today and I was able to shoot multiple magazines on gas setting 2 with only 1 in 5 FTE. All fed flawlessly. Guess when I clean it out tonight I'll have a look at the bottom of the bolt, carrier and hammer and see where and how it's wearing. Might get the Dremel out but doubt I'll be putting Pauly out of business. His work sure is pretty though. If I had money to burn I'd do it just for the looks at the range. If you are at Walmart to buy bulk ammo, buy Federal. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 Yeah, keep breaking it in. Pauly will sell you some port gauges cheap. Won't hurt to do some hand cycles too. If you are up to it a conservative bolt polish might help. I'll look for Pauly and port gauges. Might knock the gas block off it anyway just to make damn sure that last little bit of gas port isn't blocked and use a drill bit to check sizes. As for the bolt polish is that going to make a huge difference in cycling? A lot of what I see here looks to be a bit much... You're going the right direction with the break-in and investigating port size. There is a lot of information in the stickies about this. You should also seriously think about polishing and re-profiling the the internal parts BEFORE worrying about spending money on a "low brass reliability kit". Again all of the information about doing that yourself is in the stickies, or there are business members that do it as a paid service if you don't think that's something you can do. That's a much better way to spend your dollars than on unnecessary parts, and an inevitable step in the solution to your cycling problems. Thanks, at least I'm on the right track. I'm still wondering what the bolt polish has to do with cycling. Is there that much internal friction in these guns? And if internal friction is adding enough resistance to the equation why would you say the low tension spring won't help? I'm wanting to know the "why" here behind bolt polishing I guess. Will def read up on it more. I may be posting a video tomorrow that you may find interesting.... Look Ma, no low brass reliability kit and no "high brass break in". Post 'er up. Or just spill your guts here. I can't take another cheezy YouTube video made by someone with a face for radio. Text and pictures I can handle. I started another thread with the video. My face isn't all that pleasant to look at, but I hope you enjoy the video and find it ispiring. Re-profiling helps the most. It's like fast forwarding the break-in process. GL. Very well stated. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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