Things to do to Saiga 12

[Paulyski 2,227]

I would contradict everything you say on bolt work too, but that would be feudal & due to the fact that I also offer a service engineered for maximum reliability via friction reduction, my motives would be questioned, so I choose not to waste my time on that..

 

You never seen my bolt work, or machined angles, so your contradictions are absolutely mute.

 

10K rounds through my 12" gun and many hi-power rounds through it w/ the regulator wide open....with zero ill effects. Another 20+ 12" guns all running w/ no issue. Also a vendor/builder running an identical set-up w/ no issues.

You have a theory, but it is not panning out in 'real world' usage.

 

Also, if someone did crack/break a carrier at the threads for any reason, it is a simple fix.

 

I would love to hear your custom gun building resume some day.

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/66677-matt-at-css-resume/

Okay, last response.

You keep triggering my e-mail by quoting my posts but if you're running high power rounds wide open I know this conversation is absolutely pointless.

 

There's reasons for the engineering of the gas system, the carrier, the op rod & even the play that develops in op rods.

 

As for resumes, I can't post pictures of tanks or H&Ks, I'm an S-12, P-64 & Glock guy.

 

But I have issues with believing some things from an H&K guy who posts pictures of an S-12 with H&K sights on the gas block, but then procedes to display that he thinks the sights are mounted to the barrel.

 

If you remove the HK front, I would pull the bbl, machine or dremel off as much of the sight as you can withOUT touching the welds. Then throw it in a lathe, check for outter (OD) concentricity, and lathe the welds off to bbl oem specs.

 

The H&K front sight is welded to the gas block, not the barrel.

 

Doh

 

Then just grind it off

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Something just don't wash.

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

 

Paul; I'm honestly curious what purpose the "op rod play" that develops with use serves.

[csmw 98]

But I have issues with believing some things from an H&K guy who posts pictures of an S-12 with H&K sights on the gas block, but then procedes to display that he thinks the sights are mounted to the barrel.

The H&K front sight is welded to the gas block, not the barrel.

 

 

Called a brain fart when posting, never had one?

 

 

 

 

 

You are the nicest guy when it comes to customers and potential customers. You do a comlete 180 when it comes to any competitor doing bolt work.

I have never dissed your bolt work, but you continue to dis mine, and anything else I do/did.

[csmw 98]

As for resumes, I can't post pictures of tanks or H&Ks, I'm an S-12, P-64 & Glock guy.:

 

Like to see some examples of your S-12, p-64, and Glock innovations and work...when you have time.

 

OR

 

Quit trashing me.

[csmw 98]

I am completely sick of this. I have been in the industry a long time and never fought w/ another company, vendor or shop.

 

This is ridiculous, I don't like it one bit, and am done argueing.

Post whatever you want, I will not respond anymore. It is not worth the hassel and is making me sick to my stomach!

Later.

[jamesmadison 55]

Nice 1st post OP! Welcome to the Saiga forums! We're all a bit touched over here.

[Paulyski 2,227]

I am completely sick of this. I have been in the industry a long time and never fought w/ another company, vendor or shop.

 

This is ridiculous, I don't like it one bit, and am done argueing.

Post whatever you want, I will not respond anymore. It is not worth the hassel and is making me sick to my stomach!

Later.

I'm sorry if you were offended, but there's just a way that these things are made & most of it is for a good reason.

 

Not too long ago there was a surge of people saying to gas the hell out of the guns, then shortly thereafter there was a surge of people posting about their broken op-rods & carriers.

So many op-rods broke that Tom Cole made the HD rod.

Well, ever break a U-Joint 4xing, so you upgrade the yokes & U-joints to ultra heavy duty & do the same dumb thing you did when the U-joints broke before?

Guess what happens? If you have an NP-435 manual, the diff grenades.

Excess energy MUST go somewhere & there's going to be a weak link.

 

There's much more than just friction reduction through the bolt & carrier, & addressing gas issues.

There's extractor slot hangups on the shell that can cause FTE's, there's warped rails that can slow a carrier that sometimes need to be addressed, there's canted gas blocks that make it so the carrier/op-rod is misaligned etc...

 

Even Mid-barrel-braked race-guns move the gas system back & ALL they shoot is light loads.

 

This is done, & has been done like this for very good reasons.

 

I'm not trying to be a dick, but I state a fact that's been conventional wisdom for some time & you responded that I "don't know what I'm talking about, Go polish something". Not exactly a nice way to rebut.

How about technical rationale? It would solicit less sarcasm in the respondent's tone.

 

Then;

 

10K rounds through my 12" gun and many hi-power rounds through it w/ the regulator wide open....with zero ill effects. Another 20+ 12" guns all running w/ no issue.

You have a theory, but it is not panning out in 'real world' usage.

 

Also, if someone did crack/break a carrier at the threads for any reason, it is a simple fix.

 

Dude.

 

I guess our philosophies just differ.

I don't take a cavalier attitude to making a gun that will easily break carriers or beat it's self to death.

 

If it can cycle birdshot & you're running high powered on setting 2, absolutely no wear?

I get carriers in here every day where guys run a bunch of high brass on setting 2 of undergassed guns that will not run birdshot & the carrier's, hammers & the little safety on the back of the carrier are beaten down quite a bit.

 

If a person were using a gun for defense & the carrier or op-rod broke & the gun failed to shoot, the threat isn't going listen when gun owners call time out.

Tell an LEO that it breaks on while using it on duty that it's "an easy fix". See if that brings him back to life.

 

I see these as much more than range toys & peruse a balance & have been advocating this for some time.

 

I'm not attacking you, just stating what, before this new surge of members the last few months, used to be the obvious.

 

If this forum isn't a place to debate what works & look at the past & learn from it, where is?

 

As vendors here people give more credence to what we say. It's ill-advisable to go & tell everyone to 6-port their guns.

If some are doing it, hopefully they've taken other precautions during the build process to circumvent failures, but i don't see that being advocated in this thread.

 

MANY WILL now chop their barrels & drill till the cows come home & when they post pictures of broken parts that can't be replaced & tell what they've done to them before the failure you won't feel too good if they were acting on your advice.

 

Read back a few years now that your shop is entering the S-12 market.

It'll save you some trouble.

 

I'm simply stating what's been common knowledge to keep others from acting on bad advice.

I used to before being a vendor too.

 

I really am a nice guy, I just must vehemently disagree with you on a few concepts that you're trying to perpetuate.

It's not a personal attack, not a fight either. Just defend your practice.

Sorry if you feel otherwise.

Shit. Sorry dude.

People used to have thicker skins & reinforce their rationale on this forum.

 

Now, I gave you my # last time you were dead wrong in the PM I started to try to keep this off the main forum but you seem to want to engage me when I give advise that differs from yours, like the 6-port advice you gave that started the derailment of this thread.

Well, I guess that's your porogative, but

if you choose to state, "I don't know what i'm talking about, go polish something", & you're not willing to learn off-board.

[csmw 98]

I am not going to continue to do this.

 

My 12" gun is gassed perfectly to run birdshot....no over gassing.

I have never once said over gassing is good for a gun.

But...If I want to beat the shit out of MY gun by running the gas wide open with hot rounds for torture testing....then that is my perogative. I have abused the living sh*t out of my prototype gun, and it shows no signs of damage or prospective damage...integrety is still there.

None of the SBS's I built were over gassed and have never had a catastrophic failure.

The point is mute though, as I am not even building SBS's for sale (only built them for employess and friends, for free 5 or 6 years ago). I am only building 18-19" guns/conversions....but will do custom work on already SBS'd guns.

 

You have a lot of theories but very little real-world experience backing up those theories. Unless you have built and beat the crap out of a 12" gun, then you have no experience with it.

 

My 15 years of work & reputation in the Class-2/3 field speaks for itself, so I will leave it at that.

 

Best.

[Willseeker 13]

As previously posted. Good first thread, svenska!

 

I'm somewhat new here too. Welcome.

 

Hang around, this site grows on ya.

 

As to what to do to an S12? Maybe we can get back to the topic and help you out.

 

Will