powder recomendation please

[rs51085 136]

Ok I am new to reloading and don't know anything about it but I go through a lot of fed bulk pack and want to start reloading the hulls. 1st off is there a cheap powder that I can buy in bulk that I could use for birdshot and buckshot and slugs. And also I know I can't reload these hulls more than 2 times but is it dangerous to load these hulls with 1oz slugs and an apropriate powder charge. Again any info would be great because I don't know anything about it. Thanks.

[IndyArms 10,186]

Promo is a decent cheap powder for trap style birdshot loads.

 

If you plan to use hunting style birdshot loads, or slugs, you will need something else...

 

My recommendation is to go to the hodgdon website and check the reloading data section.

 

HERE:

 

http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

 

click on the "I agree" button, then shotgun loads.

 

Input your gauge, hulls, and what loads you want to make, etc... and see if any powder will cross reference to all of the load styles you want to load. If so... Thats the powder to get. If not, you will most likely have to buy 2 different powders...

 

Simple and clear as mud?? LOL

 

 

 

[rs51085 136]

so i went to the hodgdon site which is great info and now i am going to go with hodgdon universal powder because they list loads for slugs and shot. but now i have even more questions. is the federal bulk pack shells considered 2 3/4'' federal paper shells by hodgdon or something else. also i noticed that the powder charges used for the federal gold medal plastic shells to be about the same or maybe just a little less than the federal paper shells. so would i be able to use the federal gold medal plastic shell recipies with the federal paper shells. thanks for all the help indy

[turbo1889 1]

Q1 ~ Is it dangerous to load 1-oz (or any other weight slugs) with equivalent weight shot load data?

 

A1 ~ No, doing so is not dangerous, it is safe and sane to do so. I do, however, strongly encourage “stiffening up” the wad-column when doing so for best load performance and accuracy. I don’t want to re-type everything so here is a link:

 

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=107590

 

 

 

Q2 ~ Are the federal bulk pack shells considered 2 3/4'' federal paper shells?

 

A2 ~ Yes, unless they have changed the shells since I last used them. If it is a Federal hull and it has a paper base wad in the bottom it is a Federal paper shell. Currently to my knowledge Federal only makes one thickness of paper base wad in 12ga. shells. The thickness of the paper base-wad is what matters if they were to make two different shells with two different thicknesses to the paper base-wad those shells would use different load data. The paper-base wad thickness in all 12ga. Federal hulls that use a paper base wad should be 7/16 of an inch.

 

 

 

Q3 ~ Can I use Fed. GM loading data to load Fed. 7/16 paper base-wad shells since the powder charges used for the federal gold medal plastic shells to be about the same or maybe just a little less than the federal paper shells?

 

A3 ~ Yes & No. The powder charges would be safe and sane since shells with a paper or fiber base-wad produce slightly less chamber pressure with the same components and powder charge levels compared to shells with plastic base-wads or single piece compression formed plastic construction. The problem, however, is that the base-wad on the Fed. paper base-wad shells is considerably thicker then the base-wad on the Fed. GM hulls and thus the wad-column length will be different between the two loads by up to a full 1/4” and thus you may need to substitute in a different wad for the load to work.

 

 

 

As to an actual powder recommendation for your needs, namely a single powder to cover bird-shot, buck-shot, and slugs in the 12ga. for your S-12. Green Dot, Herco, or IMR-4756 would be my suggestions, those powders have more linear burn curves that are more forgiving to work with especially if you are going to be doing any component substitutions. Green Dot will produce the lightest loads and IMR-4756 the heaviest loads with Herco in the middle but closer to IMR-4756 then it is to Green Dot. In addition Green Dot will usually work better for shot loading unless your loading heavy payload high energy field loads and Herco and IMR-4756 will work better for buck-shot and slugs unless you just want to load “plinker loads” in those two categories not real hunting loads. Loading and availability of “by-the-book” load data falls into those ends of the spectrum as well but any of the three powders can cover all the kinds of loads you want to load if they need to its just there is a trade off of efficiency if you are trying to get one powder to coverall all the bases.

Edited June 25, 2011 by turbo1889

[rs51085 136]

thank you turbo ! that info in the link was great and you answered all my questions. i feel a lot more comfortable about trying to reload now. so just to be sure i understand everything that i read, your saying it would be safe to use load data for 1 oz lead shot worked up for federal 2 3/4 paper base shells and substitute a 1oz slug for the shot. thanks again

[turbo1889 1]

[rs51085 136]

thanks again for a great response and very good info. i am a total noob to reloading and really appreciate some one with your level of knowledge giving me advice. all i am really wanting to do starting out is reload the federal hulls that i already have with a variety of loads, mostly bird shot and slugs, to get a little experience reloading. all of the stuff that i am going to reload now is just for fun at the range so as long as my slug loads are safe, moderatley accurate, and cheaper than store bought i will be very happy. i don't really do a lot of hunting but i love shooting slugs from the saiga and it is just to expensive for me to go shoot a lot of Remington or centurion slugs in one day. i considered just doing the 1oz slug swap that a lot of people are doing to the federal bulk packs but that seems like a short cut to me and i would rather gain a little more knowledge about reloading before i go down that road. reloading seems like a great hobby to go along with shooting so i don't mind investing a little time in it and it seems like down the road it could be very valuable knowledge. i checked the powders that you recomended and am not quiet sure which to go with due to limited load data on the alliant site but i am thinking of probably going with the green dot to start out with. thanks again for all the help!

[patriot 7,197]

Suggestion:

 

 

 

 

Look at the data from the powder manufacturers. Most is available online. Follow their recipes exactly. A minor change can lead to a major pressure increase and you could wear your gun on your face.

 

 

[turbo1889 1]

[rs51085 136]

Thanks again. You have made this a lot less complicated. So far I have a lee load all, some green dot powder, some fed 209a primers, a hole bunch of federal paper hulls, and a 25lb bag of #4 shot. I guess I still need some 12s3 wads, and maybe a scale before I can start reloading some shot loads. Can you think of any thing else I am forgetting?

[tokinshitload 12]

So far my favorite powder is Blue Dot. I use it for shotgun,pistol(several calibers) and am working on some rifle loads as well, 7.62x39 and 54r. Some say dirty, and yes it can be after 300 rounds. I have other powders like w231,bulls-eye,h4159, but this works as a great utility powder for me. I do not recommend it for cold climates tho.

xacex

[tokinshitload 12]

Thanks again. You have made this a lot less complicated. So far I have a lee load all, some green dot powder, some fed 209a primers, a hole bunch of federal paper hulls, and a 25lb bag of #4 shot. I guess I still need some 12s3 wads, and maybe a scale before I can start reloading some shot loads. Can you think of any thing else I am forgetting?

 

you wont need a scale with the Lee Load All because the weight of the shot is determined by a bushing specific to the amount of shot you are using and powder charge.Having a scale is nice, but I dont think it is nessasary with #4 shot or this loading press. That press handles up to #2 and BB. dump the first couple of powder charges back into the hopper, and do the same with the shot to make sure the feeder tube is working properly before loading a live round. I have one of these loaders, but it doesnt drop enough blue dot to get me realy fired up. It works fine, and the Saiga likes to eat up my shells, but I want the 6 foot flame instead of the three foot flame.

xacex

[IndyArms 10,186]

Thanks again. You have made this a lot less complicated. So far I have a lee load all, some green dot powder, some fed 209a primers, a hole bunch of federal paper hulls, and a 25lb bag of #4 shot. I guess I still need some 12s3 wads, and maybe a scale before I can start reloading some shot loads. Can you think of any thing else I am forgetting?

 

you wont need a scale with the Lee Load All because the weight of the shot is determined by a bushing specific to the amount of shot you are using and powder charge.Having a scale is nice, but I dont think it is nessasary with #4 shot or this loading press. That press handles up to #2 and BB. dump the first couple of powder charges back into the hopper, and do the same with the shot to make sure the feeder tube is working properly before loading a live round. I have one of these loaders, but it doesnt drop enough blue dot to get me realy fired up. It works fine, and the Saiga likes to eat up my shells, but I want the 6 foot flame instead of the three foot flame.

xacex

 

 

That makes no sense...

 

I have powder bushings in my MEC presses and depending on WHICH POWDER you run through it, you can have either WAY too much or NO WHERE NEAR ENOUGH!!!! that's why they make 40 some odd different sized bushings... so you know... AFTER MEASURING WITH A SCALE... which one is the CORRECT one!!!!

 

The charge bar is what determines your shot weight... sure... but you STILL GOTTA have a scale to check your powder charge weight!!!

 

A SCALE is one of THE MOST IMPORTANT parts of a reloading bench... your firearm, and quite possibly your FACE will thank you for making sure your powder charge in your loads is CORRECT and CONSISTENT... it is DEFINITELY NOT something you should be "guessing" on....

 

 

[tokinshitload 12]

Yup, I have a scale too, but I dont use it for loading with the lee load all only metallic cartridges. there is a chart for the lee that shows all the powders you would encounter in a sporting goods store with the drop for each size of bushing. I have found the chart errs on the side of safety and all charges listed are safe. Trying to get a charge not listed is where it gets hairy and you must have a scale.These kits sold by lee are not like a MEC. I would say they are idiot proof and come with everything you need besides powder,hulls,shot, and primers but Im sure someone will screw the pooch. I call it natural selection. <br>These load all were designed with simplicity and safety in mind. Sure a MEC 600jr. would be a better buy for the guy but this will get him started for the least amount of money invested safely.BTW the load all only uses 16 powder bushings, and lists the drop of each of these bushings for 36 different powders. Saiga's like slow burning Blue dot, but you can only get a 37.5g drop out of a .198 bushing.This is adequate to run a gun-fixer plug on +1 and over 1250fps with a 1 1/8 oz load in a Remington hull. Any thing faster or closer to a max load requires a scale because it is not listed. If I were a beginning reloader i would be ecstatic with the result obtained so far. I agree a scale SHOULD be on every loading bench, but if he is just using this loader and its guideline he will be fine to start with.Who knows if he will like reloading.I agree with Indy that a loading scale is the most important tool on my bench tho. How much invested is obviously on this guys mind otherwise he would have spent more money on his equipment. My son now load with this loader, and is real happy with it.<br><br><br>&nbsp;

<br>

<br>

<br>Thanks again.  You have made this a lot less complicated.  So far I have a lee load all, some green dot powder, some fed 209a primers, a hole bunch of federal paper hulls, and a 25lb bag of #4 shot.  I guess I still need some 12s3 wads, and maybe a scale  before I can start reloading some shot loads.  Can you think of any thing else I am forgetting?<br>

<br><br>you wont need a scale with the Lee Load All because the weight of the shot is determined by a bushing specific to the amount of shot you are using and powder charge.Having a scale is nice, but I dont think it is nessasary with #4 shot or this loading press. That press handles up to #2 and BB. dump the first couple of powder charges back into the hopper, and do the same with the shot to make sure the feeder tube is working properly before loading a live round. I have one of these loaders, but it doesnt drop enough blue dot to get me realy fired up. It works fine, and the Saiga likes to eat up my shells, but I want the 6 foot flame instead of the three foot flame.<br>xacex<br>

<br><br><br>That makes no sense...<img src="http://forum.saiga-12.com/public/style_emoticons/default/015.gif" class="bbc_emoticon" alt=""> <br><br> I have powder bushings in my MEC presses and depending on WHICH POWDER you run through it, you can have either WAY too much or NO WHERE NEAR ENOUGH!!!! <img src="http://forum.saiga-12.com/public/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif" class="bbc_emoticon" alt=""> that's why they make 40 some odd different sized bushings... so you know... AFTER MEASURING WITH A SCALE... which one is the CORRECT one!!!!<br><br>The charge bar is what determines your shot weight... sure... but you STILL GOTTA have a scale to check your powder charge weight!!!<br><br>A SCALE is one of THE MOST IMPORTANT parts of a reloading bench... your firearm, and quite possibly your FACE will thank you for making sure your powder charge in your loads is CORRECT and CONSISTENT... it is DEFINITELY NOT something you should be "guessing" on.... <br><br><br><img src="http://forum.saiga-12.com/public/style_emoticons/default/000.gif" class="bbc_emoticon" alt=""><br>

Edited July 4, 2011 by xacex

[belt fed frog 56]

INDY is entirely correct you Must have a scale no matter what you are loading !!!!! even if it is one of the cheap RCBS 10-10 scales which are very accurate in my experience

 

TURBO i love my H&R/NEF Ultra Slug Hunter mine is in 20 Ga. i have never come across a thicker shotgun barrel, mine is only for shooting a nearly 2 Oz. M183 PD 14.5 mm artillery simulator slug loaded in 3" hulls and you can not crimp them because the nose sticks out of the shell and these are some Bad MoFo`s the PD stands for point detonating , the slugs do not fragment it all comes out the back end but you get one heck of a BIG Boom ,Flash and 3 ft dia. smoke ball on impact (this no fragmentation get me around the explosive slug law here legally)

 

I am using a Lee Load All press for these though i am not using the powder bushings ,i use a Little Partner powder dispenser 3 twists of the knob throws the 13.7 Gr. IMR Hi Skor 800X i load the PD`s with and out of the 24" barrel of the USH it will print a 4" group at 100 yards and the slugs penetrate 3/4`s of their 2" length into steel belted tractor trailer tires :eek: i could take the largest animal on the North American continent with one but i only use them as a wildlife scare and crazy fireworks/gun fire suppressor in my rural neighborhood they hear the shotgun blast then a short delay and then the Big Woomp at impact and suddenly the neighborhood goes silent !!! It really is the legal poor mans grenade launcher .

 

The rounds go for about $4 each from the only distributer of loaded rounds but i lucked out and got the slugs for 25 cents each years ago so with new hulls and all i have less than 75 cents all in and down . I guess i am the expert with these because i have been called for my loading data by the few people who are sitting on bigger piles of these than mine . the big users of these are the 40mm guys because it is the only legal no stamp ammo that goes BOOM , they just sub caliber their launcher`s with a rifled 20 Ga barrel (never fire these from a non rifled barrel they will tumble and fail to detonate leaving a hazard UXB behind , though the EOD disposal is just safety glasses ear plugs and a 2' set of tongs and burn them in a deep pit ) loaded as i have they have a max range of 1000 yards at 45 degree elevation just like the M-13 Arty trainer they were designed for .

[rs51085 136]

Just to update. I have loaded about 200 Shells with the load all and I love it. I have been using green dot powder which works great but all I have loaded so far is #4 shot at about 1250 fps so only time will tell of how many different loads I can work up for it. The shells I've loaded have all went boom and seem to patern better than the factory bulk pack but that might just be because its #4 shot. I did use the load data that came with the load all for green dot powder but I got a scale to check the charge weight on the first box or so just to be sure it was correct. The powder charges seem to be very consistent so I figured it was ok to start loading with out checking every shell. No problems yet and I am definetly hooked on reloading. Now I lust have to figure out were to get my powder and primers in bulk to save some cash. Thanks everyone for your help!

[IndyArms 10,186]

A potentially helpful tip...

 

 

Now that you have MEASURED how much green dot will flow through that particular bushing... NOTE IT DOWN FOR FUTURE REFERENCE!!! So you will always KNOW that you get "X" amount of green dot with a number "whatever" bushing.

 

My point above was you NEED to measure how much powder drops through a specific bushing, with a specific powder, no matter what the load data/book tells you... Once you "KNOW" you dont have to measure that particular poder/bushing combo again, cause it should not change.

 

 

[FORKLIFT352 63]

See my post...." wally world Fed.cheep stuff"

Also see "Buck and ball"

Edited July 13, 2011 by FORKLIFT352

[tokinshitload 12]

A potentially helpful tip...

 

 

Now that you have MEASURED how much green dot will flow through that particular bushing... NOTE IT DOWN FOR FUTURE REFERENCE!!! So you will always KNOW that you get "X" amount of green dot with a number "whatever" bushing.

 

My point above was you NEED to measure how much powder drops through a specific bushing, with a specific powder, no matter what the load data/book tells you... Once you "KNOW" you dont have to measure that particular poder/bushing combo again, cause it should not change.

 

 

 

This is something to live by in the future. Previously I stated you do not need to measure your powder with the lee load all 2, but it is always advised to measure your drop from each bushing change even if the MANUFACTURE tell you that it is not necessary due to loads they show being reduced by %15. Even between loads I have found a %5 discrepancy in the drop of powder which keeps me from using the load all for max loads. I would hand measure EACH shell for max loads and not rely on bushings at all when you get over 11,000psi when it comes to the lee.

[rs51085 136]

So I have been reloading for some time now and I still love it. I also have been casting my own slugs with a lee production pot and 1 oz mold. I loaded the first run with the load data that turbo suggested off of alliants web site and it worked great. It produced a low powered fairly accurate slug that goes about 1300fps. I used wheel weights to keep the cost down to about 20 cents a round. These are my new favorite rounds to shoot. Thanks again to everyone here on this forum that helped me figure this out.

Edited September 3, 2011 by rogers