Cadiz LRBHO Range Report

[Crusader 64]

I have installed a Cadiz LRBHO device and live fired it yesterday:

 

Saiga 12 was equiped with:

 

Cadiz LRBHO, (but I used a longer rubber coated screw from Lowes for better ergonomic control. Screw protrudes from a slot cut in the side of the reciever.

JT Magwell set up for AGP mags

8rd and 10rd Mags were used

JT reduced power mainspring

JT extended mag release

Tromix bolt on bolt extended handle

MD Gunfixer plug (old style)

KA piston puck

Tromix Shark break

Tromix firing pin, but without the heavy spring

Tromix trigger guard

Tromix FCG

Krebs Extended Safety Lever

 

 

Ammo fired:

10x Federal 3in OOO Buck copper plated

9x Winchester 3in OOO copper plated

49x Winchester 1oz 2/3in slugs

4x 3in Winchester 1oz 3in magnum slugs

 

Results:

 

LRBHO locked bolt to the rear after the last shot 100% of the time.

I kept the LRBHO device from engaging when the mag was first loaded by applying upward pressure on the LRBHO screw with my shooting fingure. Once I feel the mag catch click, I push down on the LRBHO screw to release the LRBHO thus chambering the first shell. Just like a MAGPUL BAD device. Worked perfectly

The only issue I ran into occured after the first 40rds, a small metal bur formed on the feed ramp and digging into the shell prventing some from chambering without a forward assist hit on the bolt handle. I filed this bur down with a file that I had at the range and the problem subsided. All remaining rounds chambered on their own from that point. At home, I took it a step further and added the feed ramp mod as will as smoothed out other contact points with shallow angle smooth ramps. Very slick action feeding at this point.

 

Opinion of the Cadiz LRBHO device:

 

It actually works and works very well. Now that I know how to install it and make it work, I consider it standard equipment for the Saiga and will install these on future Saigas that I acquire. These LRBHO devises are not for beginners and I have written about a Saiga mod rating scale, just like they have for model planes, for after market Saiga parts. If one exsist, this would be rated at the advanced level. However, if someone has successfully installed a magwell then I think that they have the skills to attempt the Cadiz LRBHO mod. The only recommended improvement that I have is the instructions that came with it. These instructions need to be more detailed with pictures. The Bridis video and a phone call to Tom Cole are the main reasons I feel like I was successful at installing this device. Out of fairness the instructions did include Tom's number and stated to call if more help is needed. Beside the instruction issue, I think it works as adveritzed. As stated above, I will install one on every Saiga that I buy. Once you shoot a Saiga with a LRBHO, it is hard to go without it.

 

Once installed, expect to have another breakin period due to the changing dynamics of the interfacing parts. That was the cause of some of the burs that have formed in mine. These burs can easily be smoothed out with a stone, dremil, file, or by themselves with time. My Saiga now cycles very smoothly.

 

I need to put some pictures together.

Edited August 15, 2011 by Crusader

[Odd Man Out 1,283]

I need to put some pictures together.

 

 

INDEED

Now with the experience under your belt, would you feel confident enough to put together a supplemental video together that would enhance the one Bridis did that would help fill in the blanks for those like me who are sitting on the sidelines with the kit in hand but not enough confidence yet to tackle it? I was thinkin of clear close ups of it in the gun with commentary on what you did to make it successful. It would be a needed addition to the Saiga community.

 

 

 

Good report, indeed.

[Crusader 64]

I need to put some pictures together.

 

 

INDEED

Now with the experience under your belt, would you feel confident enough to put together a supplemental video together that would enhance the one Bridis did that would help fill in the blanks for those like me who are sitting on the sidelines with the kit in hand but not enough confidence yet to tackle it? I was thinkin of clear close ups of it in the gun with commentary on what you did to make it successful. It would be a needed addition to the Saiga community.

 

 

 

Good report, indeed.

Bridis video plus the instructions does tell everything, but what needs to be added is a computer animation of how the LRBHO works. When the instructions says that "the beak must clear the bolt face," many may not know what that means. I have learned that it means that when a shell is being extracted from the chamber, the beak must be profile in such a way as to always move under the base of the shell. It is really hard to explain in works, even by video. Some Saigas require the beak to be bent up and then down along the "s" curve. The instructions don't explain this, but a comuter animation of the function could fill in the blanks for some saiga owners whos saigas are out side the tolerance of the norm. This was the case with me. Tom had to explain bending the beak up at the bottom S and them back down at the top of the S for some saigas. Once I did this, it functioned and functioned very well.

 

Also, if you accidently profile the beak too short you can add a little lenght by bending the horozontal S. However, the futher length you add the more to the left the beak will sit. You can get a way with this as long as you don't move it too far.

 

The important part is understanding the engineering concept that goes into making the device work. Once that it understood completey, the device can be installed by the average joe that at least has enough skill to install a magwell.

Edited August 15, 2011 by Crusader

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

No test with drums?

 

I almost exclusively use MD-20s and an a LRBHO is nearly useless to me if it will not function properly with an MD-20. Anyone else tried it with MD-20s?

[Crusader 64]

No test with drums?

 

I almost exclusively use MD-20s and an a LRBHO is nearly useless to me if it will not function properly with an MD-20. Anyone else tried it with MD-20s?

I use a magwell so MD-20s are out of the question for me. I don't know why people are having trouble getting it to work with the drum if the issue is only spring tension related. If the restricted 2/3in shell length is a factor then that could complicate things further. I could only speculate. Perhaps the LRBHO Mod is not for everyone. Just depends on what you want to get out of your Saiga 12.

[Crusader 64]

Here are the pictures of how I chose to set up my Cadiz LRBHO device.

 

I chose to use a larger screw than the one Tom provides. I got this rubber coated one at Lowes:

 

 

Some complain about the bolt shutting and loading the first round when a new mag is inserted. Mine only does that rarely, but I use my trigger fingure to ensure the bolt closes when I want it to using my trigger fingure to disengage the LRBHO, just like a MAGPUL B.A.D. See the following drill:

1: I got this screw from Lowes, better ergonomics than the one provided

2: Trigger Fingure ensures LRBHO does not disengage when mag is inserted by preventing downward motion of the LRBHO Lowes screw

3: Trigger Fingure ready to release LRBHO and load first round at my choosing

4: Trigger Fingure releases LRBHO through downward pressure on LRBHO Lowes screw and immediatly loads first round at my choosing. Very Reliable.

5: Ready to fire

 

When shaping your beak ensure that it is shaped and or bent to "Clear the Bolt Face" as per the instructions. This makes it impossible for the LRBHO to act as an ejector because it is forced under the base of the brass. See below:

 

 

Once the operating concept is understood, it really is not that hard to install and I plan on doing another if I get another Saiga 12. If you have successfully installed a JT MAGWELL or a mod of similar difficulty, then you should have the acquired skills to tackle a mod of this difficulty level. Read the instructions carefully, watch Bridis's video and call Tom if you are still not sure. Overall and outstanding concept. By far, my favorite mod.

Edited August 28, 2011 by Crusader

[Patriot12 11]

Great pictures!!! Did you make this work on your first attempt??

[Crusader 64]

Great pictures!!! Did you make this work on your first attempt??

Took a couple of tries, but once I figured out the concept it really was not that hard.

[TheOtherOne 5]

Great pictures!!! Did you make this work on your first attempt??

Took a couple of tries, but once I figured out the concept it really was not that hard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMKHbgghVus

[Crusader 64]

I need to put some pictures together.

 

 

INDEED

Now with the experience under your belt, would you feel confident enough to put together a supplemental video together that would enhance the one Bridis did that would help fill in the blanks for those like me who are sitting on the sidelines with the kit in hand but not enough confidence yet to tackle it? I was thinkin of clear close ups of it in the gun with commentary on what you did to make it successful. It would be a needed addition to the Saiga community.

 

 

 

Good report, indeed.

The pictures of the "Beak being shaped to clear the bolt face" is most likely the part that alot of people miss the first time. Once this concept is understood, you really can't go wrong.

Edited August 30, 2011 by Crusader

[Crusader 64]

Has anyone but me had any success with these? I am supprised that the LRBHO devise is rarely discussed anymore dispite the long wait. I am still enjoying mine and plan on installing a second one.

[hobbyshooter 59]

I decided not to install mine. I use a mix of factory 5s, AGPs, surefire 12s, a promag 12 drum, and an MD20. After reading the reviews, I just don't think the device can be made to work with all of those different mags.

 

I also wanted to see how well the device held up. All of the talk about bending and shaping makes me think the beak is going to be soft and change shape over the course of hundreds of rounds.

 

I still have it, completely untouched and would be willing to sell it to someone with more faith.

[dgyver 13]

Has anyone but me had any success with these? I am supprised that the LRBHO devise is rarely discussed anymore dispite the long wait. I am still enjoying mine and plan on installing a second one.

 

I am still running mine. Did a 3-gun tournament last weekend and it ran flawlessly. Only problem (outside of my abilty) was a slug that did not eject properly but this was not related to LRBHO. Lost count of the rounds with it but it is well over 500-600 without problems.

 

 

[Crusader 64]

Has anyone but me had any success with these? I am supprised that the LRBHO devise is rarely discussed anymore dispite the long wait. I am still enjoying mine and plan on installing a second one.

 

I am still running mine. Did a 3-gun tournament last weekend and it ran flawlessly. Only problem (outside of my abilty) was a slug that did not eject properly but this was not related to LRBHO. Lost count of the rounds with it but it is well over 500-600 without problems.

Once it is shaped and installed to working order, I think that it is as reliable as any other part on the gun.

[havok 21]

Mine lrbho has been working perfect. I do not understand why people started hating or got scared after a few guys hacked up their lrbho. The bolt auto closing is by far the best setup I have had on any gun and I wish I had it on my rifle, 3 gun guy's are missing out big time on this setup.

[FlameRed 4]

Although I converted my Saiga myself, I think the Cadiz is just too hard to install since the common complaint was that the instructions were hard to follow along. I tried to contact Tom myself multiple times, but never got a response to arrange him installing it. I rather not ruin my gun.

 

Instead I got hold of GunFixr and my Saig has been sitting in his shop for the last couple of months but I hope to get it back before Christmas with his LRBHO solution instead.

[Gunfixr 76]

Flame Red, just sent you an email.

It's ready.