Nick! 1 Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 (edited) See Post #4 I took my newly converted Saiga to the range yesterday, managed to get off 2 shots and then Bam, it happened. The gas tube is off a Romanian 7.62x39. After doing some research on the forum, I learned that gas tube would work and it would require some filing to make it fit. Here are some pictures to help describe my problem. This first picture shows exactly where the bolt/piston rod is located when the jam occurs. At this point, I literally have to bang the charging handle against a piece of wood to loosen it up. The picture after that is about the same spot without the gas tube on the firearm. Edited February 26, 2012 by Nick! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shandlanos 1,470 Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 Could be that the gas tube is warped a little. Might've just gotten unlucky with the gas tube. Fortunately, they're cheap - the easiest answer is to grab another gas tube and see if it works. If another gas tube doesn't work, you might consider replacing your piston - one more US part, to boot. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nick! 1 Posted February 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 Could be that the gas tube is warped a little. Might've just gotten unlucky with the gas tube. Fortunately, they're cheap - the easiest answer is to grab another gas tube and see if it works. If another gas tube doesn't work, you might consider replacing your piston - one more US part, to boot. I highly doubt the piston itself is damaged; I purchased it and converted it without ever firing it first. Weird thing is that when I initially put it on, it cycled no problem. Actually firing it was a whole nother story. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nick! 1 Posted February 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 I actually think I may have pin pointed the problem. I noticed that the piston is stopping right where the larger lip crosses into the actual gas block. There is also a small wear on the side of the gas block closest to the receiver. I have no idea how to fix it though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nick! 1 Posted February 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 Even further inspection revealed much more play in the gas tube even when hold down is closed. It just jumbles around more than I think it should. I may have filed it down way too much. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimdigriz 580 Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 Even further inspection revealed much more play in the gas tube even when hold down is closed. It just jumbles around more than I think it should. I may have filed it down way too much. You shouldn't have to file the gas tube at all. Pick up a surplus AK-74 tube or one of these: http://www.k-var.com/shop/product.php?productid=17636&cat=293&page=1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nick! 1 Posted February 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 Even further inspection revealed much more play in the gas tube even when hold down is closed. It just jumbles around more than I think it should. I may have filed it down way too much. You shouldn't have to file the gas tube at all. Pick up a surplus AK-74 tube or one of these: http://www.k-var.com...&cat=293&page=1 Believe it or not, I did have to. I tried to make it work without filing but no dice. Even searches on the forum and a member chat revealed that filing may be necessary. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vulcan16 971 Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 Your top photo shows the gas tube unlocked. Was it in this position when firing? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nick! 1 Posted February 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 Your top photo shows the gas tube unlocked. Was it in this position when firing? Nope, it was closed. Even closed however it still jossles around a bit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vulcan16 971 Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 put the stock tube back on and see if it still binds. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
liberty -r- death 1,445 Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 Did the gun hand cycle fine prior to range tesing? If it was stiif it may be the new trigger guard mounting screw is sticking up too high and needs to be shortened. If the screw is too tall it does not allow thw hammer to fall all the way back a puts too much pressure on the bolt, and will casue it to hang up when it cycles. If that's the culprit it could make the piston seem to hang up. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nick! 1 Posted February 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 put the stock tube back on and see if it still binds. No problems with factory tube Did the gun hand cycle fine prior to range tesing? If it was stiif it may be the new trigger guard mounting screw is sticking up too high and needs to be shortened. If the screw is too tall it does not allow thw hammer to fall all the way back a puts too much pressure on the bolt, and will casue it to hang up when it cycles. If that's the culprit it could make the piston seem to hang up. Yes, it did cycle fine prior to range test. I don't believe however that is the cause considering the factory tube is working fine. I honest think I just filed it down too much and there is too much play. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wpflgun 3 Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 It is often necessary to file the angled surface of the gas tube (where the locking lever rides) to get the correct fit, same thing when replacing the SKS gas tubes. These rifles have a lot of variation, and this tends to be a hand fit on the few AK and SKS tubes I have replaced. SKS has same issue on receiver cover. My .223 Saiga is sporting a Bulgy AK-47 gas tube, with no problem except the fitting required. Runs like a top. My guess is that you filed too much, because the tube should not be loose with the locking lever locked. I agree, try another one and go slow on the fitting, comparing the angled surface to the stock original. Of course, or you can always go back to the original. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nick! 1 Posted February 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 Yup, ordered a new gas tube. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
josey88 21 Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) This is so new to me . I converted my Saiga .223 myself and got most of the parts from CSS including the ak-47 gas tube . I installed it without a hitch and it has worked perfectly since then . I still have the original gas tube , which I never got to use , but I keep it as a spare or if I ever want to put it back ... all I have to do is take off only the upper forehand cover because it will work with the bottom forehand installed ... Actually , it looks kind of cool , with a machine gun type looks with the ak-47 bottom forehand and the factory gas tube on top , naked , uncovered Edited February 28, 2012 by josey88 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mancat 2,368 Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 Your gas tube is too short. This is because it is a used Romy gas tube, and is fitted for 45-degree gas block AKM. The total length of the gas system is about 1-2MM shorter than on a 90-degree gas block AK such as the Saiga. If you're going to buy an AKM tube for the Saiga, you really need to buy an unissued/unfitted tube, or else you run the risk of having this problem. Jim Drigriz is right.. The best tube for a Saiga is an AK-74 tube. Other than the fact that it's the "correct" tube for the series of rifles that the Saiga was designed on, there are two other issues: 1. The AK-74 tube has a retention spring that eliminates much of the need for fitting. There still may be some required, but the tube is already on the loose side of fitment. The spring takes up the remaining slack and makes the tube tight. 2. The AK-74 tube has a bit of a relief cut right where the tube rides over the lower handguard retainer. This is a problem with AKM/AK-47 tubes, as they can contact the retainer here and cause a slight bend in the tube if you force it into place. The rifle may function fine, but there will be excessive resistance on the piston. I used an unissued Polish tube in the first part of my Saiga conversion, and it worked good, but problem #2 reared its head both with the CSS bolt-on retainer, as well as the normal cam-lock retainer once I got around to installing that. The AK-74 block has problems with neither. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wpflgun 3 Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 Good point. My Bulgy AK-47 gas tube was an unissued spare. I simply eyeballed the stock tube contact surface and gradually fit it. Nice to know that the AK-74 tube has advantages, will keep that in mind next time. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nick! 1 Posted March 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 (edited) So I finally figured out what the issue is (besides from the obvious). Being as that I had already screwed up 1 gas tube, I was not going to rush to alter the 2nd one. I was just playing around with the different pieces when it occurred to me. When I had first test fitted my new gas tube on the receiver, the bottom handguard was already secured in place. This time, I test fit the gas tube without the lower handguard on and what do you know??? It dropped right in with no filing necessary. I then proceeded to assemble the rest of the rifle without any problems. Because the lower handguard was sitting higher than it should, the gas tube was not dropping into its correct spot. Because of that, I felt the need to file the upper rear of the gas tube where it locks into place. Take this as a note everyone - Before you go altering pieces, explore every possible option first. Edited March 2, 2012 by Nick! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Minkman 24 Posted December 3, 2012 Report Share Posted December 3, 2012 Is this a proper gas tube I would need ? http://www.k-var.com/shop/AK-080R.html Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mancat 2,368 Posted December 3, 2012 Report Share Posted December 3, 2012 Yes, the ideal gas tube for a Saiga with two-piece AK handguards is an AK-74 type tube with tension spring. A normal AKM or vented tube will also work, but may be slightly loose in the rifle (depends on if fitting is required) due to the lack of tension spring. Generally the AK-74 tube will require less hand fitting at the tube locking cam as well. However you can find it cheaper at other places. Robert RTG is the cheapest supplier - they are out at the moment but regularly get restock: http://www.robertrtg.com/akgastube.html Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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