learstroker 2 Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 (edited) Three converted Saiga 12 shotguns. One exhibiting FTF in -20F and colder. It just goes click with almost no primer strike visible. They all are clean and dry including the firing pin channel. They all are very reliable in temperatures above zero F with strong pronounced primer strikes. They were professionally converted and have tapco trigger groups. The one with the light primer strike has the JTE hammer spring. I would appreciate any input on correcting this. I have some Tromix heavy hitter firing pins inbound. Thanks Edited March 20, 2012 by learstroker Quote Link to post Share on other sites
siminov 164 Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 Are you taking them out of a warm building right out into the cold? Maybe condensation? I've never tested any firearms like this but now I'm curious. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 Damn, I seem to remember a certain lube that wasn't affected by the cold like others, let me see if I can find something about it. From what I understand, when you take them from warmth to extreme cold, the internals freeze up from the sudden change in temp and the condensation that briefly forms on the internals... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
roachtron 49 Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 Are you using the stock hammer spring or an after market? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Floyd9 30 Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 I would have to agree with the frozen condensation being the most likely culprit, if you are taking it from 70 degrees or so, down to 20 below. Condensation will form FAST and freeze FAST, and once its frozen in there gonna put the brakes on operation. Maybe some de-icer in there might help? Most needed fact is if you are taking it out of your warm house or truck or if they are already at the -20 mark when you shoot. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fallschirmjager667 729 Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 thats what those corrosive primers are for, better performance in sub 0 temperatures Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 It's called Bio Arctic. Kinda hard to get ahold of but from what I hear, very worth it if you can find it... http://www.renewablelube.com/TDS/4F-Bio-Arctic%20Firearm%20Lubricant.pdf Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spartacus 1,619 Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 No primer strike visible? It almost has to be something jamming up the firing pin. Degrease the firing pin and the pin channel in the bolt, and do not lube them. You can try some of that De-Icer stuff for car door locks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 Below 0 deg. F, lube guns with a 50/50 mix of 5W30 Mobil 1 and gasoline. There is a product called Gibbs oil that should work too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
learstroker 2 Posted March 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 I must update. I took them out today. -21F. I let all three go from semi warm truck cab to -21F and sit outside for 10 minutes to let them aclimatise. Two of the guns are 2007 models and have the twisted hammer springs. These guns did not FTF at all. The 2008 model S12 has a none twisted hammer spring. It fired 6 times then began its FTF slight primer strike. It never fire again. I field striped them in the cold and there was a slight difference in the hammer tension in the cold state. I believe the 2008 version that has the non twisted spring felt like it was a little less tension to pull back and cock. All these guns have only had eezox lube applied and wiped dry that is good to -40. The hammer channels are pristine clean. Are the newer Saiga 12s coming with a smooth none twisted OEM hammer spring? Thanks to all for replying. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fallschirmjager667 729 Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 i believe the non twisted spring is aftermarket low power spring Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 Not to mention, when these guns warm up, they do it suddenly. I think you're on the right track suspecting the aftermarket spring. I thought you were having problems with all of your guns. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
siminov 164 Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 Are you gonna try a twisted spring in the 08 to see if it still happens? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
roachtron 49 Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 If your gun has this http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-328/AK47-Saiga-JT-Engineering/Detail it is an aftermarket spring. Try a twisted spring and see what happens, sounds like thats your issue. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
learstroker 2 Posted March 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 (edited) I will proceed with returning to the stock braided hammer spring in the mean time. Update: I contacted JTE and Jack was most helpfull in explianing what was going on. The metalurgy changes at extreme temteratures and the JTE springs can be tuned to compensate for this. I will try to adjust and give another shot at testing in the nice spring weather we are having. Thanks to all for your input. Edited March 21, 2012 by learstroker Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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