kingjason 10 Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 Well I have no idea why I never got any registration confirmations but I am finally on. I made a donation tonight and walla instant access. LOL I will say this. In my research in buyng one of these Saiga 12's and converting it, this site was pretty much all I needed. My goal for this thing is to set it up and get it approved for carry in our squads. My firearms guy is actually on board with a new shotgun platform and we are working this out. My history with firearms is limited to the last 10 years or so of being in LE and nothing really before that. So when I tell you guys my it was a long and hard choice on tearing this thing apart, I am not kidding. When I first got it I put 50 rounds of buckshot thru it with zero issues on setting number 2. It is not a fan of number 1 but this may just be the break in period and I need to inspect the ports. I will say that the conversion went fairly smooth but there are some areas that could be improved on the instruction videos on the CSS site but really they have done an excellent job. I did have a issue with the Tromix trigger guard but I rethreaded the little capture nut on my own with the screws provided and it should be fine. I will also say that the extra weight of the bigger charging handle combined with me needing to break it in more or send the bolt off to be polished was causing a little bit of a FTE issue. It will be going back on after I sort it out a little more. My biggest issues when building it were not having a quality drill bit, I needed some smaller needle nose for the BHO spring, and fiiguring out if I needed to modify the freaking BHO leaver/hammer for the Tapco/Tromix trigger group.I swear every article on building one and video talked about modifying those two items and then finally after much searching I found where it said all Tromix/Tapco triggers were modified and needed no work from CSS. I could kind of tell from looking at them but being a noobie to this platform I wasnt sure. So I just wanted to say thanks to this board for all the great information. Now I need to search and read up on the top shell beng deformed in this thing all the time. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 The top shell will always deform, use the BHO or a Krebs safety lever (I use the latter personally). It sounds like you need a slight amount of gas port work. I would recommend reprofile and polish strictly on the basis of running the bolt with a pinky. I also recommend the auto plug once you get her running good. Set it and forget it... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RedDevilGuns 25 Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 looks good for a first time convo. Good luck with getting your pd to getting them integrated. I think once your people find out how easy it is to operate. The whole pd will be wanting one for their squad car. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 get your gas ports inspected and worked out. you should be able to fire 1 1/8oz wally world federal bulk ammo on gas setting #2 with a stiff shoulder. If you arent getting reliable ejection on setting #1 with non-low recoil buckshot, you have a gas issue. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kingjason 10 Posted March 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 looks good for a first time convo. Good luck with getting your pd to getting them integrated. I think once your people find out how easy it is to operate. The whole pd will be wanting one for their squad car. Yes they have all shown great interest in personal shotguns. Most have stated they would prefer my Saiga to the AR's they are carrying. I never thought about just leaving the bolt open until last night and that actually sounds like a sound solution. I like the idea of the auto plug but I havent done any research on that one yet. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 I can tell you from experience that aside from cleaning debris out of the open chamber once a week, leaving the bolt open is pretty much the best way to do it. You should research anything you add to your weapon highly, with that being said, quite a few of us on this site love our auto plugs simply because they aid in handling of the weapon in two ways. Once it's adjusted to the weakest loads you shoot through the weapon, it enables you to load whatever you want without adjusting anything AND it opens up during the firing cycle which blows debris out of the gas block requiring less cleaning and more rounds fired before cleaning is needed. It also seems to make the recoil pulse the same for each round, I couldn't tell the difference between a slug and a bird shot round one fired right after the other... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RED333 1,025 Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 Welcome to the board kingjason and thank you for your service to our community. Nice looking S12, the convert went well, good job. Do you know year it is? Does it have a side scope rail? Now for the bad news, they are VERY addcitve!!! I just have a S308 and S12, some here have more. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 a member modified his magazines with a grenade pin that was easily pulled, put in the position the brass of the shell resides in the magazine, so that the top round in the mag is not in contact with the bolt, until you pull the pin. Another used hot glue to solidify the throat of the shell with good results. A pin seems to me the practical route, with an orange lanyard that you cant miss when you pop the gun out of the trunk. the ONE BIG thing that I have heard echo in LEO community, is the non-political correctness factor of the converted saiga, but WHO CARES!!!! You VS the badguys, fuck the public, you guys and gals should be armed the best that is possible.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted March 30, 2012 Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 The autoplug is a good idea for any saiga in LE or combat use. It is just one less thing you can screw up. Tune your gun to run the weakest low recoil LE crap your department issues, set the autoplug for that, and you should be good for all 2 3/4" without changing settings. Further, you can remove it by hand with no tools. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kingjason 10 Posted March 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 The autoplug is a good idea for any saiga in LE or combat use. It is just one less thing you can screw up. Tune your gun to run the weakest low recoil LE crap your department issues, set the autoplug for that, and you should be good for all 2 3/4" without changing settings. Further, you can remove it by hand with no tools. Actually I was going to buy a large amount of super X and just tune it to one style of shell and be done wth it. However if the auto plug works I could be convinced to go this route. I am not going to lie the better stuff gets expensive fast. a member modified his magazines with a grenade pin that was easily pulled, put in the position the brass of the shell resides in the magazine, so that the top round in the mag is not in contact with the bolt, until you pull the pin. Another used hot glue to solidify the throat of the shell with good results. A pin seems to me the practical route, with an orange lanyard that you cant miss when you pop the gun out of the trunk. the ONE BIG thing that I have heard echo in LEO community, is the non-political correctness factor of the converted saiga, but WHO CARES!!!! You VS the badguys, fuck the public, you guys and gals should be armed the best that is possible.... You know I had this same thought the other day. Like something flat with a little red flag on it that would hold off the top round. Oh and I am not worried about public perception since it will be in the rack unless I need it. We drive Tahoes and have a shotgun/ AR mount. AR's are nice but most police involved incidents are not at a great distance. If I roll up on a active shooter incident I would much rather have the shotgun in medium to close quarters with unlimited ammo. Hmmm here is a thought for the guys making parts for these. How about a little plastic cover that would eject off if when the bolt was charged. All it would need to be was something that would clip into the stock side of the bolt and just flip off going forward. Going to go eyeball this thing. I guess I need to get the bolt out pretty quick as we are going to qualify next month and I would like to show it off a little more. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted March 30, 2012 Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 Honestly the round deformation thing is only an issue if your top round is very flimsy. Anything with smaller pellets (therefor smaller gaps) or a good solid shotcup is immune. I left a #4 Buck round against a closed bolt for months on my spare saiga, and there was no visible change. Cheap thin hulled OOB has big gaps between the pellets that are not supported by a shotcup. Those will deform. If you are really worried about it, either lock your bolt back (my preferance), or make sure at least the top round is quality ammo in #4 or #1 Buck. FBI tests showed those outperformed OOB for instant lethality/stop anyway. The deformation thing is something that people talk about who don't have saigas or have been reading old threads on this and other forums. If you are still worried about it, you would be better to send your bolt to Pauly or Cobra. Their reprofile make sure there is less pressure on the top round and that the pressure isn't applied in just one point. That at least will make the whole gun run nicer while you are solving a mostly illusory problem. That sounds better than having a little plastic part to fiddle with. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kingjason 10 Posted March 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) The top round deforming was from my own personal experience. Every time I would leave a 10 round mag in it, it would do this. It did this with buck shot, birdshot and slugs. I just went in there and reconfirmed with my seven round mag yesterday and the top slug was deformed. As a matter of fact I put about 50 or so thru it on Sunday and it actually mashed the second round down enough once that it poured pellets out of the front into my mag. It would mainly cause the first round after the initial shot to only feed around half way and I would have to pull the magazine or work it up by hand. I am perfectly fine with leaving the bolt open. I will say this though in the defense of the shot gun. Some of the shells I have shot out of it was older stuff that my buddy had laying around. Now it was pretty much kept in his gun cabinet but not sure where it was kept prior to making it into the box. It was a pretty good mix of slugs, super X, buckshot, and some low recoil stuff. Its hard to turn down free shells when you are just messing around. He did have a few 3in also but I was not a huge fan of the kick. I cant remember if it was my new or the old that was worse but I will try again when I get my next batch of new shells. I may give the #4 a try on the next order. Edited March 30, 2012 by kingjason Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted March 30, 2012 Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 Something else I forgot to mention to you, and it happens a lot with new owner/converters. Check your hammer profile against the factory hammer. if you leave too much material on the hammer face, and dont round the edges a little, it will cause a lot of friction. The Tromix hammers are done in such a manner that they are good drop ins, but you should still tweak them if needed, due to the fact that no manufacturer wants to over modify any part in a gun with such loose tolerances, that might cause the gun to run out of control, from the hammer ears not catching fully on the hook because too much material was taken off the hammer face. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kingjason 10 Posted April 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2012 Something else I forgot to mention to you, and it happens a lot with new owner/converters. Check your hammer profile against the factory hammer. if you leave too much material on the hammer face, and dont round the edges a little, it will cause a lot of friction. The Tromix hammers are done in such a manner that they are good drop ins, but you should still tweak them if needed, due to the fact that no manufacturer wants to over modify any part in a gun with such loose tolerances, that might cause the gun to run out of control, from the hammer ears not catching fully on the hook because too much material was taken off the hammer face. Was going to make some calls, pull out the bolt,hammer, and trigger to send away for a polish/reprofile but Tornados cleaned out the north end of my town this week. Been working everyday since. Sigh maybe next week. Thinking after that I may add the auto plug and be done with it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nhresident 19 Posted April 6, 2012 Report Share Posted April 6, 2012 The autoplug is a good idea for any saiga in LE or combat use. It is just one less thing you can screw up. Tune your gun to run the weakest low recoil LE crap your department issues, set the autoplug for that, and you should be good for all 2 3/4" without changing settings. Further, you can remove it by hand with no tools. I concur with GunFun's love of the Autoplug - its a great addition. Since I've drilled my holes it has been really nice to just set it and leave it alone. When I first got it I thought it would solve my FTE issues. But, turned out I needed to do gas work. Now its a compliment to the gun. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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