hi-cap. clips for Saiga 7.62

[Robt 0]

Do Saiga 7.62x39 except hi capacity clips, or can they be converted legally to except them? Plus, I'm glad to see a web site dedicated to Saiga.

[Makc 64]

I have heard people talk about the original Izhmash 30-rd mags made for Saiga... Never actually seen one...

 

You can legaly convert it to accept hi-cap mags if you keep the US part count ($70-$90).

 

Well... I should say that if you do spend $70-$90 on the correct US part count then you can convert it not just for hi-cap mags... you can make it look like this for example...

[Beam97xl 0]

I bought a 7.62X39 30 round mag, marked Saiga on the bag it was wrapped in, at a gun show a few mounths ago. It turned out to be an AK mag that had been modified to fit a Saiga. In my Saiga it shoots Wolf ammo pefectly, but doesn't like to feed Remington. It also feeds perfectly in my SAR 1 with Wolf or Remington ammo. You can fix the high cap mags to fit if you dare. I haven't messed with any of my SAR 1 mags but I am tempted.

[Makc 64]

...well, this is true...

 

You can fix any AK mag to fit into Saiga, or modify the ramp in Saiga to use any AK un-moded mag...

 

But either way, you should have a correct US parts count in your rifle to legaly use the hi-cap mags (anything over 10 rds)...

[Robt 0]

First thanks for the feed back. Is there a site some where that tells the parts count for a specific gun (saiga) even shot guns i thought i seen 1 searchin the web. Will like the FCG from red star arms or some 1 like that work in the saiga guns, or does it have to be saiga specific. Who sells parts to make saigas legal. Thanks for the help, plus nice website Makc.

[ak01q 0]

[adam7373 0]

Easiest way to convert a Saiga to hi-cap:

 

1. replace the mag floorplates and followers (6 bucks a set)

 

2. replace the hammer and disconnect-the standard AK trigger will only work with a pistol grip conversion (35 bucks for a good FCG-save the trigger for later, in case you want to do a PG conversion)

 

3. make a feed ramp

 

4. file the mag catch so the mags will lock in

 

Now you have a LEGAL hi-cap Saiga with the sporter stock, without using anything more complicated than a Dremel and a chunk of pipe.

[Sheik Yerbouti 0]

There is a 'how to' with pictures over on the AK forum at ar-15.com. Look under the Russian forum for a sticky '.post under the name 'MRW'.

[Messiah Jones 2]

Here's the whole deal...

 

 

What follows are the modifications that I made to Wieger mags so that they will fit and function in the author's rifle. The contents of this post are for informational purposes only. Any modifications that a reader may perform are done so solely at the reader's risk. The author has no control over the reader's tools, skills, abilities, and experience and assumes no liability whatsoever for any damages if a reader chooses to perform the same modifications. Compliance with all federal, state, and local laws and regulations are the responsibility of the reader, especially 922r requirements.

 

Modifed Wieger mags require a feed ramp or bullet guide installed in the .223 Saiga rifle in order to function. Once the guide is installed, the polymer factory mags will not fit in the mag well.

 

The first modification required is to remove a bit of the receiver sheet metal at the rear of the mag well, just under the mag catch. On a factory-issued .223 Saiga there is a bit of the receiver sheetmetal about 5/8" wide that projects forward about 1/16" into the mag well opening:

 

 

Strip out the hammer and trigger/disconnector parts, block the mag catch rearward, and grind/file the projection so that the rear of the mag well opening is straight across:

 

 

 

 

Next, remove the floorplate, spring, and follower from the mag(s) and file down the top forward edges of the mag feed lips by about 1.5 mm tp 2.0 mm (approx. 0.060" to 0.080"). I recommend filing as opposed to power grinding so that you can flie-and-try to "sneak up" on a good, snug fit with no wobble:

 

 

 

 

Next, file the "ramp" above the mag catch at the top rear of the mag ONLY AS NEEDED. You might have to take just a few thousandths off, or maybe as much as 1 mm to 1.5 mm depending on your individual rifle. Use a small file (4" to 6") so that the 90-degree angle between the "ramp" and the top of the mag catch tang is filed sharp:

 

 

 

 

Likewise, you may have to dress off the underside of the mag catch tang, taking perhaps nothing to maybe 0.5 mm (0 to 0.020") off:

 

 

 

 

Allow about 30 to 60 minutes for filing the first mag, and after that it takes maybe only 10 to 15 mins per mag. You may have to remove a bit more metal from any of the places mentioned, but by taking your time you can get a really good fit without wobble.

 

The Wieger mags also generally require the installation of a feed ramp or "bullet guide" on the curved floor of the trunnion directly beneath the chamber opening in the rear of the barrel. Your rifle may or may not FTF without the feed ramp. These are availabe from K-Var as a 5.45 "Bullet Guide" for $10, last I looked. There is a circular projection on the underside of the bullet guide that must be ground off, and a "wing" at the left side of the guide that interferes with a rivet in the left side of the Saiga trunnion. Either grind off the rivet flush or cut off the wing. You can chose from drilling and tapping the trunnion floor and drilling and countersinking the bullet guide to accept a flathead screw, or you can drill a hole in the bullet guide floor (drill out the "circle") and "plug" weld the guide with a MIG unit, or you can use acetone to degrease the trunnion and guide and use JB Weld, but it may not be as permanent as either of the other two options. THE BULLET GUIDE MUST BE CENTERED ON THE FLOOR OF THE TRUNNION.

 

Alternatively you can cut a curved section of 3/4 steel pipe to fit the curved bottom of the trunnion and fasten it in the same manner. After installing the bullet guide/feed ramp, you may have to Dremel-grind any high spots that may interfere with the bolt travel. Sorry no pics of the bullet guide installation, but here's a shot of a guide already installed (in an SAR-2):

 

 

 

 

Note the slight chamfer at the bottom edge of the chamber opening to facilitate the bullet nose travel into the chamber.

 

 

Noah

 

C 2003 Noah Zark

[Messiah Jones 2]

Ahh man I messed up.

 

This is how to convert a Saiga 223. For the 7.62X39 you just have to add a feed ramp and file the mag catch just a little bit so the mags lock in place. It is much simpler on the 7.62X39. And you can use any brand of magazine.

 

You can get a feed ramp from KVAR.

 

Feel free to move my above to the 223 section if you wish, so nobody starts cutting up their 7.62.

[stevem 0]

Wouldn't it be easier to build up a feed ramp on the mag?just fill the gap with a weld and smooth it with a file or carbide grinder.

[Messiah Jones 2]

Well, I know that the Hesse company (now called Vulcan) used to build up a feed ramp with weld when they converted their Saigas. But you can get feed ramps specifically made to fit these rifles. You can get them at www.K-VAR.com for about 5 bucks.

 

For a person who can't weld or has no access to a welder this is a good option. But it can be done either way.

 

If anyone needs help converting Saigas check out my post in the "For Sale or Trade" section. I sell a saiga conversion CD there.

[Packrat 0]

You can make a feed-ramp out of 3/4" pipe. A 3" nipple makes about a dozen, even though you have to cut off the threaded ends. If you can find a scrap or pipe, you don't have to waste anything (and it doesn't cost anything). I cut it with a hacksaw, but the cut-off wheel on a Dremel would do as well. The outside radius is about right to fit the radius of the space in the trunion.

 

The ramp needs to fill the space under the barrel (on top of the trunion) and be a length to fill from under the barrel to the end of the trunion. There is a rivet on the left side of the trunion which seems to have no use except to start the bolt turning to lock; the feed ramp should fit under this, and extend around to the flat on the right side where the bolt seats whenit is fully locked. Since the force on the ramp will be into the trunion, I found that epoxy glue was sufficient to hold it in place. (JB Weld was NOT satisfactory, breaking loose on the second magazine fired through the rifle.)

 

I haven't tried up, but I was told that drilling and tapping a hole in the trunion (where the cartridge moves into the barrel) and putting in an 8-32 round-headed screw will raise the carteidge up enough to direct it into the chamber instead of letting it hit the rear of the barrel. Just make sure that the head is not high enough to touch the cartridge feed on the bolt

 

If you modify the magazine, you will have to do that for every magazine you want--OK for a few mags, but not good if you want a lot, or if you have an AK and want to use the same mags for both guns. Also, you can weld up the milled slot on the AK mag, but JB Weld or similar will not hold up.

On an older Saiga (4 years?) I found that about half of the magazines I tried worked perfectly w/o modification to rifle or magazine. If they worked, they worked every time. If they failed, they failed within 3 rounds, and failed consistently. I never could detect a difference in the magazines based on appearance. You don't have to fire the rifle--hand operation will show up the failures. I mark the good ones; any unmarked are failures or untried.

 

Last, someone raised an interesting point: a Saiga rifle, modified to take hi-cap mags but otherwise stock, does not have to meet the 10-imported-parts criteria. I haven't looked at the regulation he was working under, since I also want a pistol grip on mine. I advise anyone making any modifications to be sure of the law.

[Makc 64]

And here is my little project COMPETED!

[J A 0]

As you can see from the pic it doesn't take much added material to get the front of a AK-47 mag to the same height as the Saiga mag.

[Makc 64]

Here is my Saiga 7.62x39 with 75rd drum!

[fire_investigator 0]

what is the best way to fill the ak47 gap? I have tried JB stick weld covered by a nice epoxy resin. Both were smoothed over between finishes. So far they seem to work. I can fully chamber a full 20 rnd clip with ease and nothing seems to be distracted. Im not sure if anyone around here is going to be skilled enough to weld them for me. Edited November 29, 2003 by fire_investigator

[fire_investigator 0]

by the way, I love the pics of yours Makc. Ill have to show pics of mine soon. I have the 2 ak mod mags 20 rnd, and a tasco 4x32 scope mounted to a ak modified dust shild with the scope rail riveted on. I like it much better than a side mount scope.

[ravent25 0]

yes, you can get real 30 round saiga mags, I just got mine from the UK/USSR dealer. if anyone needs some my email is jmarlow@vreelandengineers.com

no need to mod for a feed ramp. these are REAL SAIGA MAGS!!