timy 1,185 Posted May 5, 2012 Report Share Posted May 5, 2012 (edited) I was thinking one day and wondered "What would the AK look like if it had been invented in this country?" Since it's all speculation anyway, it could have been completely different or remarkably similar. My thoughts is that it would have had a one piece wood stock (at least initially) and perhaps a floating barrel. A longer sight plane with the rear sight at the rear of the dust cover or behind it would be a possibility. One thing led to another and Ralph (master woodworker) started on a stock. At this point there are of course similarities to a Vepr Super which is the only variant I'm aware of with a one piece stock. But to me at least, it seems Vepr does it's best to look as non-AK as possible. Nothing wrong with that but I would like to go the other way if possible and end up with a more military look. I realize there are purists here who abhor the thought of straying from the base configuration but membership here does run the gamut all the way to the other extreme, which is "anything goes". This project by it's very nature would fall squarely into the latter camp. Still, I think traditionalists could offer valuable input if they looked at it with an open mind. After all, there are 100 million AKs that look like AKs so it shouldn't hurt to have a few that don't so much. This thing ( a 7.62x39 with a 20 inch barrel) is a prototype at this point and could lead to us making a few "production" models if it turns out well enough. Any and all constructive criticism or suggestions are welcome so feel free to join in if you want. it could be fun. Thanks, Tim Edited May 5, 2012 by TacticoolTim 9 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RED333 1,025 Posted May 5, 2012 Report Share Posted May 5, 2012 (edited) I like it, make it for us south paws and it will sell. ETA: I just saw it is ambi. Edited May 5, 2012 by RED333 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dad2142Dad 6,559 Posted May 5, 2012 Report Share Posted May 5, 2012 That is great, there is something about the full wood that just says smooth. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
XD45 7,124 Posted May 5, 2012 Report Share Posted May 5, 2012 Considering the rifles that were designed in the US in the same time period, I'd say the US47 wouldn't bear any resemblance to the AK47. It would have a full length stock as you suggest, but... It would have the gas piston under the barrel. It would not have a pistol grip. Seems to me it would look like a slightly larger M1 Carbine. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fallschirmjager667 729 Posted May 5, 2012 Report Share Posted May 5, 2012 Considering the rifles that were designed in the US in the same time period, I'd say the US47 wouldn't bear any resemblance to the AK47. It would have a full length stock as you suggest, but... It would have the gas piston under the barrel. It would not have a pistol grip. Seems to me it would look like a slightly larger M1 Carbine. 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lone Eagle 839 Posted May 5, 2012 Report Share Posted May 5, 2012 Looks like the bastard child from when an AK and a SKS had a one night fling. I like it. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thebuns1 4,323 Posted May 6, 2012 Report Share Posted May 6, 2012 one thing i like about the Ak is that it is NOT American. i think that may be part of its success. well that and the fact that it just works regardless. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
timy 1,185 Posted May 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2012 I like it, make it for us south paws and it will sell. ETA: I just saw it is ambi. Unfortunately, it's not ambi or even mono at this point. (hence, "jumping the gun") Couldn't use the external safety lever of course so my intention at present is to fab an internal detent setup and run the safety straight up. That could change if we do another one though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
timy 1,185 Posted May 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2012 Considering the rifles that were designed in the US in the same time period, I'd say the US47 wouldn't bear any resemblance to the AK47. It would have a full length stock as you suggest, but... It would have the gas piston under the barrel. It would not have a pistol grip. Seems to me it would look like a slightly larger M1 Carbine. Can't argue your reasoning other than the fact that this was more or less the first "assault rifle" and thus simply had to set precedents. I briefly considered not including a pistol grip but that would be an affront to the weapons intentions, IMO. I'd like to play around with different setups but lack the skill, time, and finances to start getting very fancy. Bottom piston would be nice if I could swing it though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gregomega 929 Posted May 6, 2012 Report Share Posted May 6, 2012 Pretty cool. Reminds me of the vepr line. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
XD45 7,124 Posted May 6, 2012 Report Share Posted May 6, 2012 (edited) Considering the rifles that were designed in the US in the same time period, I'd say the US47 wouldn't bear any resemblance to the AK47. It would have a full length stock as you suggest, but... It would have the gas piston under the barrel. It would not have a pistol grip. Seems to me it would look like a slightly larger M1 Carbine. Can't argue your reasoning other than the fact that this was more or less the first "assault rifle" and thus simply had to set precedents. I briefly considered not including a pistol grip but that would be an affront to the weapons intentions, IMO. I'd like to play around with different setups but lack the skill, time, and finances to start getting very fancy. Bottom piston would be nice if I could swing it though. Well, MK was a great innovator, but..... He didn't invent the assault rifle. Edited May 6, 2012 by XD45 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
timy 1,185 Posted May 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2012 (edited) Well, MK was a great innovator, but..... He didn't invent the assault rifle. Agreed. That's why I put the "more or less" in there. I figure I'm on shaky enough ground without insulting Mr. AK though. Edited May 6, 2012 by TacticoolTim 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
devildogdakota 804 Posted May 6, 2012 Report Share Posted May 6, 2012 Put a birds eye maple stock on her and I'd wanna have one! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Photoguy 202 Posted May 6, 2012 Report Share Posted May 6, 2012 That is great, there is something about the full wood that just says smooth. It says "Ouch" to me...can you imagine getting butt-checked with that? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
YOT 3,743 Posted May 6, 2012 Report Share Posted May 6, 2012 That's going to look amazing. Damn, I love true customized guns! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poolingmyignorance 2,191 Posted May 6, 2012 Report Share Posted May 6, 2012 Thats some nice wood working skill there. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 Love that cheek riser. I will be interested to see what you do with the safety. Maybe cut a slot and do something like Gunfixxer's Garand style safety? I vote for putting the front site on the gas block, adding a hinge to the dust cover, and putting the back sight on the back. Didn't smith and wesson put in a bid for a stamped metal assualt rifle? I don't remember the name, but it kind of seems like an answer to your question. It seems like the American guns were all pretty heavy too, compared to whatever other countries had in a given era, up until the ARs anyway. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
timy 1,185 Posted May 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 Thats some nice wood working skill there. I can't take any credit there but agree Ralph does outstanding work. The pic I posted doesn't really show much and he's got it almost done now. This is only the 5th stock that he's done so far but it's turning out great, IMO. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
timy 1,185 Posted May 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 Love that cheek riser. I will be interested to see what you do with the safety. Maybe cut a slot and do something like Gunfixxer's Garand style safety? I vote for putting the front site on the gas block, adding a hinge to the dust cover, and putting the back sight on the back. Didn't smith and wesson put in a bid for a stamped metal assualt rifle? I don't remember the name, but it kind of seems like an answer to your question. It seems like the American guns were all pretty heavy too, compared to whatever other countries had in a given era, up until the ARs anyway. The riser works great. I tried it out and my eye naturally lined up with the sights. I'm not familiar with Gunfixer's Garand Safety. PM me a link? Thanks. What I plan is an internal detent working on the internal factory safety lever, then run a lever straight up from where the external safety lever was. Tab (AK) type or a knurled knob (US) up top. If and when we do another one I'd like to get a safety on there that would be more ambi than the current one. This thing is definitely a prototype but is going to be a nice looking one. What's the benefit of a hinged cover? Does it make the rear sight more stable? I agree on American rifles being on the heavy side up until the AR. Thanks for the input. Tim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 Yes the benefit of a hinged cover is that sights and other things mounted to the dust cover are more stable. I believe IndyArms posted a picture of one of his with hinge points on the sides of the front trunion below the sight leaf that looked perfect to me. others use the sight leaf as the hinge point, and ruin the range adjustment of the sight leaf. Others replace the sight leaf alltogether. If you add a rail to the topcover for scopes, it needs to be solidly mounted from both ends, so that means hinges in the front, and either a more secure latch in the back or some kind of screws. For irons, a hinge in the front seems to be good enough to keep zero. Not sure what happened to the build thread, but pics are in this one. http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/64715-left-side-charging-dust-cover/ This has to be one of the coolest builds around and I think it solves most of the inherent shortcomings of AK. All the links I can find to the build thread tell me that I don't have permission. Dang. That was a cool thread with good detail too. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
timy 1,185 Posted May 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 Stock is done. Time to work on the safety setup. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RED333 1,025 Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 Damn if that aint COOL I dont what is. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fallschirmjager667 729 Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 maybe you could try an sks style safety on the trigger guard, when it flips up it blocks the trigger from coming back, maybe someone can post a close up pic 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RED333 1,025 Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 That is a good idear 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
timy 1,185 Posted May 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 Damn if that aint COOL I dont what is. This pic is a bit fuzzy so doesn't really do it justice. When it's finished I'll try to get some higher quality ones. This thing has some sexy curves to it. Thanks for the diagram, BTW. maybe you could try an sks style safety on the trigger guard, when it flips up it blocks the trigger from coming back, maybe someone can post a close up pic Excellent idea if it's not beyond my limited metalworking abilities/tools. We're rushing a bit on this one to see how it turns out and are probably going to run the safety straight up (not ergonomic, but easiest) or straight down (more ergo, but would have to cut into stock at bottom) pivoting off the original safety pivot. This is a prototype and if it works there will definitely be some changes on the next one. Mine, snicker, snicker. I graciously let Ralph have the first one. Thanks for the input. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
timy 1,185 Posted May 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 Way too much to do and far too little time, so just a quick update. I couldn't stand the idea of slotting that gorgeous stock to run a non ergonomic safety straight up so am now in the middle of "engineering" a pushbutton safety that fits behind the trigger guard. I should be able to at least find out if it will function this weekend. If so, I'll be looking for a machine shop that can make me a non cobbled up one. $$$$ Just got a Tech Sight AK rear sight in yesterday. I haven't had time to do anything with it yet other than just throw it on for a quick look. Sight looks good. Cover, not so much. A few too many gaps and a loose fit. I'm hoping to be able to modify the factory dust cover for a neater/cleaner look. Again, I'll know more this weekend. Tim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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