Weiger bummer :-(

[gimmeCZ 0]

Hey everyone! Well, to start off, I have an SGL-21 and 31 which I run steel mags in, (Polish & East German 30rd, Hungarian 20rd in 7.62, and Polish Tantal in 5.45 respectively), and wanted to build a matching .223 rifle to match.

 

I purchased a round trunion, dimpled, pressed sight/gas block 16" Saiga rifle, a Bulgarian '74 parts kit, and a few Weiger mags to get started.

 

To get the Weigers to seat I went the route of carefully removing a small amout of metal from the magwell lip just above the mag release on the rifle, and removing a slight amount of metal from the mags until they seated up against the trunion securely, as opposed to milling a bit off the underside of the rifle's trunion until the unaltered mags fit.

 

The 2 mags I've modified fit like a dream, but after closer inspection, the Weiger mags themselves are slightly narrower than the magwell itself. This allows them to slide a bit side to side, something that doesn't happen with my 5.45 and 7.62 rifles.

 

Before I go any further, are there any steel .223/5.56 magazines that are slightly thicker width wise, and fill the magwell better?

 

Also, I would rather mod the rifle a bit more to fit my next batch of magazines, rather than the mags themselves.

 

Any thoughts? I'll try to get some pics up later to illustrate the issue.

 

Long story short, the Weigers are skinnier than my mag well and flop a bit side to side.

 

Thanks for reading!

[poolingmyignorance 2,191]

Mag wobble is not an uncommon occurance in an AK. Unless its causing some mechanical issues i'd leave it alone.

[jbanzai 113]

A little bit of wobble is OK, and in my experience, it's the norm. I would only be concerned if it caused feeding issues.

Circle 10 mags aren't steel, but they are steel reinforced in the right places. They are very snug with no wobble.

 

Given the choice, I personally rather mod the mag than the rifle.

[gimmeCZ 0]

Thanks for the input. I was afraid I might take too much off the trunion, and then nothing would fit. I can deal with junking a mag, junking a rifle might keep me up at night! Also, modding each mag separately gives me the option to custom fit each mag for the best fit.

 

The Weigers are awesome up close, excellent production work, and nice and compact. Just wish I would have gotten more when they were available, I can't find more anywhere!

 

As far as the Bulgie Circle 10's, I'll probably go ahead and pick up an Arsenal SLR-106 now that they're in production again. Those smoked 20 and 30 rounders look really awesome against the black poly furniture for sure! My SGL's have wood furniture for the retro look. The .223 will as well.

[canoecanoe 63]

This is curious. I have 5 Weigers modded to fit two different 223 Saigas. I have no mag wobble whatsoever. Is it possible that you took a little too much off the mags where they meet the trunion? Or possibly more was taken off of one side than the other? I am not questioning your skill, I just am relating my experience.

 

If you are not married to steel mags only, the Beryl 5.56 mags also fit my rifles with no wobble. Even tighter than the Weigers. The feed lips are reinforced, but the locking tab is not. Still, they are milsurp quality mags.

Edited May 9, 2012 by canoecanoe

[jimdigriz 580]

They are not wobbling because they are narrow, they are wobbling because you removed too much material. Let me try to dig up my tutorial on how to mod Weiger mags.

 

EDIT: Here ya go: http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/67063-fitting-weiger-mags-to-the-saiga-223/

Edited May 9, 2012 by Jim Digriz

[gimmeCZ 0]

Thanks again. That is actually the tutorial I followed, but needed to remove much less material from the mags than the tutorial showed. Only about 1mm per side.

 

I did find the problem. My SGL-21 magwell, Weiger mags, poly Beryl mags, and Tantal poly and steel mags all measure 24.5mm accross, while the stock saiga .223 magwell and mag measure 26mm accross.

 

That allows the Beryl and Weiger mags to lock up tight at the front lug, but have a little bit of actual lateral play against the mag release. I even hand stoned the magwell lip to fit the Weiger locking lug profile as perfectly/smoothly as possible.

 

I'm curious if my particular saiga has a tad wider magwell than the earlier versions maybe?

[jimdigriz 580]

Thanks again. That is actually the tutorial I followed, but needed to remove much less material from the mags than the tutorial showed. Only about 1mm per side.

 

About 1mm is exactly what the tutorial called for. "They just need grinding down about a millimeter or so on each side."

 

I did find the problem. My SGL-21 magwell, Weiger mags, poly Beryl mags, and Tantal poly and steel mags all measure 24.5mm accross, while the stock saiga .223 magwell and mag measure 26mm accross.

 

That allows the Beryl and Weiger mags to lock up tight at the front lug, but have a little bit of actual lateral play against the mag release. I even hand stoned the magwell lip to fit the Weiger locking lug profile as perfectly/smoothly as possible.

 

I'm curious if my particular saiga has a tad wider magwell than the earlier versions maybe?

 

Probably not, but I will measure mine if I can find the tool. The Weiger mags look skinny compared to other 223 AK mags, but they should still lock up tight if sized correctly. Tight fitment is a matter of feedlip engagement and locking tab engagement more so than any other factors.

[gimmeCZ 0]

Good point, on second read it does call for 1mm. I had just remembered the photo showing around 1/4" of material removed, but the caption did specify that it was way too much.

 

Still love the Weigers for quality, history, and design, but I did order both a Yugo M90 and smoked Bulgie mags to experiment with.

 

Good info everyone, I'm looking forward to some interesting discussions on here!

[mancat 2,368]

FYI Galil steel mags are also a bit too narrow for the magwell and tend to wobble. Mine snap in without modding, and feed reliably enough, but sit too low to feed HPs reliably, and sometimes have troublr on the last couple rounds.

 

I prefer Beryl or Circle-10 magazines. They will fit tight and secure.

[jhhiers 1]

Are the circle 10 mags specifically for .223 or are people using 5.45 mags? I see circle 10 mags in 5.45 a lot but never circle 10 .223

[jimdigriz 580]

Are the circle 10 mags specifically for .223 or are people using 5.45 mags? I see circle 10 mags in 5.45 a lot but never circle 10 .223

 

There are circle 10 5.56 mags, but the black ones are hard to find now, and the other ones are more expensive than they should be.

[gimmeCZ 0]

To shed a little light on the common poly 5.45 and 5.56 magazines you might come accross, here's a quick breakdown.

 

From left to right: Polish Tantal 5.45, Bulgie Circle 10 5.45 (both basically identical), Polish Beryl 5.56 (looks almost identical to the 5.45 mags, but built specifically for the 5.56 round), and lastly the ribbed Bulgie Circle 10 5.56 mag. The Bulgie 5.56 mags are available in both 20 and 30 rounds in black and smoke, and 40 round black RPK versions are also available. Bulgie 5.56 mags are current production.

[pyzik 597]

To shed a little light on the common poly 5.45 and 5.56 magazines you might come accross, here's a quick breakdown.

 

From left to right: Polish Tantal 5.45, Bulgie Circle 10 5.45 (both basically identical), Polish Beryl 5.56 (looks almost identical to the 5.45 mags, but built specifically for the 5.56 round), and lastly the ribbed Bulgie Circle 10 5.56 mag. The Bulgie 5.56 mags are available in both 20 and 30 rounds in black and smoke, and 40 round black RPK versions are also available. Bulgie 5.56 mags are current production.

 

Just something I thought I would share since I recently bought two Polish mags and was told they were for .223 and were not. The .223/5.56 mags only have nine (9) ribs on each side of the mag while 5.45 has eleven (11).

[canoecanoe 63]

To shed a little light on the common poly 5.45 and 5.56 magazines you might come accross, here's a quick breakdown.

 

From left to right: Polish Tantal 5.45, Bulgie Circle 10 5.45 (both basically identical), Polish Beryl 5.56 (looks almost identical to the 5.45 mags, but built specifically for the 5.56 round), and lastly the ribbed Bulgie Circle 10 5.56 mag. The Bulgie 5.56 mags are available in both 20 and 30 rounds in black and smoke, and 40 round black RPK versions are also available. Bulgie 5.56 mags are current production.

 

Just something I thought I would share since I recently bought two Polish mags and was told they were for .223 and were not. The .223/5.56 mags only have nine (9) ribs on each side of the mag while 5.45 has eleven (11).

 

I just checked out my Polish Beryl mags. I can confirm that they have 9 ribs, They are also embossed from the factory with 5.56x45. My suggestion would be to look for the embossing when buying Beryls. that way there will be no question as to what caliber they are.

[jimdigriz 580]

To shed a little light on the common poly 5.45 and 5.56 magazines you might come accross, here's a quick breakdown.

 

From left to right: Polish Tantal 5.45, Bulgie Circle 10 5.45 (both basically identical), Polish Beryl 5.56 (looks almost identical to the 5.45 mags, but built specifically for the 5.56 round), and lastly the ribbed Bulgie Circle 10 5.56 mag. The Bulgie 5.56 mags are available in both 20 and 30 rounds in black and smoke, and 40 round black RPK versions are also available. Bulgie 5.56 mags are current production.

 

Just something I thought I would share since I recently bought two Polish mags and was told they were for .223 and were not. The .223/5.56 mags only have nine (9) ribs on each side of the mag while 5.45 has eleven (11).

 

I just checked out my Polish Beryl mags. I can confirm that they have 9 ribs, They are also embossed from the factory with 5.56x45. My suggestion would be to look for the embossing when buying Beryls. that way there will be no question as to what caliber they are.

 

Guys, do the black Polish Beryl mags have steel reinforcement in the feedlips and locking tabs? I've heard conflicting reports. If you don't know for sure, a magnet will tell the story.

[pyzik 597]

When I sold the 5.45 mags I just bought some Circle 10s so I can't say on the Beryl mags.

The Tantal mags, however, were reinforced everywhere they should be.

 

PS, GimmeCZ, you should add a Waiger mag pic to your post of the mags just to give the whole spectrum.

Edited May 10, 2012 by Pyzik

[jimdigriz 580]

PS, GimmeCZ, you should add a Waiger mag pic to your post of the mags just to give the whole spectrum.

 

And to show how marvelously compact the Weiger mags are.

[canoecanoe 63]

To shed a little light on the common poly 5.45 and 5.56 magazines you might come accross, here's a quick breakdown.

 

From left to right: Polish Tantal 5.45, Bulgie Circle 10 5.45 (both basically identical), Polish Beryl 5.56 (looks almost identical to the 5.45 mags, but built specifically for the 5.56 round), and lastly the ribbed Bulgie Circle 10 5.56 mag. The Bulgie 5.56 mags are available in both 20 and 30 rounds in black and smoke, and 40 round black RPK versions are also available. Bulgie 5.56 mags are current production.

 

Just something I thought I would share since I recently bought two Polish mags and was told they were for .223 and were not. The .223/5.56 mags only have nine (9) ribs on each side of the mag while 5.45 has eleven (11).

 

I just checked out my Polish Beryl mags. I can confirm that they have 9 ribs, They are also embossed from the factory with 5.56x45. My suggestion would be to look for the embossing when buying Beryls. that way there will be no question as to what caliber they are.

 

Guys, do the black Polish Beryl mags have steel reinforcement in the feedlips and locking tabs? I've heard conflicting reports. If you don't know for sure, a magnet will tell the story.

 

The Beryls have steel at the feed lips, but no steel at the locking tab.

 

Still, they are first rate, in my opinion.

[jimdigriz 580]

The Beryls have steel at the feed lips, but no steel at the locking tab.

 

Thanks.

 

What a shame, what a shame...

[mancat 2,368]

The front tab is steel reinforced. Rear is not.

[thebobrusso 27]

the bulgie circle tens in 5.56 are reinforced with steel in the locking tab and feed lip?

[gimmeCZ 0]

PS, GimmeCZ, you should add a Waiger mag pic to your post of the mags just to give the whole spectrum.

 

And to show how marvelously compact the Weiger mags are.

 

Here is a Weiger steel mag with the others. What it doesn't show is the actual scale, as the Weigers are about 1" shorter than the slick-sided mags, and about 1/2" shorter than the 30 round ribbed 5.56 Bulgies. Pretty light weight for a steel mag too!

[jimdigriz 580]

Here is a Weiger steel mag with the others. What it doesn't show is the actual scale, as the Weigers are about 1" shorter than the slick-sided mags, and about 1/2" shorter than the 30 round ribbed 5.56 Bulgies.

 

They fit (a bit snugly) in the pouches for the 20 round 7.62x39 Hungarian tanker mags.

Edited May 11, 2012 by Jim Digriz

[ironhead7544 35]

Here is a Weiger steel mag with the others. What it doesn't show is the actual scale, as the Weigers are about 1" shorter than the slick-sided mags, and about 1/2" shorter than the 30 round ribbed 5.56 Bulgies.

 

They fit (a bit snugly) in the pouches for the 20 round 7.62x39 Hungarian tanker mags.

 

The Wieger mags also fit in the GI M16 mag pouch. They fit tight with no rattle.

[gimmeCZ 0]

On the Weiger subject, I've spent a good part of the morning looking for more mags online.

 

Has anyone seen Weigers for sale anywhere recently?

[jimdigriz 580]

On the Weiger subject, I've spent a good part of the morning looking for more mags online.

 

Has anyone seen Weigers for sale anywhere recently?

 

Keep your eye on APEX. They've had them on and off for a long time.

[pyzik 597]

On the Weiger subject, I've spent a good part of the morning looking for more mags online.

 

Has anyone seen Weigers for sale anywhere recently?

Nope. Not on any business site anyway. I did see two for sale on another forum. Though if I recall, I think they were going for like $40 ea.

[131Johan131 5]

I know this is a couple of months old but if the sar-3 steel copies will work. Cheaper than dirt has them for sale, they only have like 80 or so left, so ide hurry up and place a order, i already got my fix haha

[mancat 2,368]

I still have a bunch of steel Galils that were not always fully reliable. I've been playing with them recently, and I'm starting to think that a lot of the problems are due to follower tilt and worn springs. One of the ways that these were made to fit 35 rounds was by eliminating the anti-tilt frame from the follower. Supposedly Magpul AR no-tilt followers will work, as well as any 40-round or "extra power" AR mag spring. I think most surplus steel Galils are probably in need of a rebuild.

 

I'm actually sort of interested in picking up a few of the generic Pro-Mag .223 magazines. These are the non-Saiga magazines that lack a built-in bullet guide. Pro-Mag's reputation is pretty crap, but I'm always curious if that reputation is fully deserved for all products. Maybe I'll buy a couple and see what it takes to break them.

 

I was fairly impressed with the Tapco Galil magazines after buying a few to beat on. Ran over them a few times with my beater truck, tossed them around fully loaded, hit them with my fist when inserted into the rifle. No breakage, no damage, nothing.

 

IMO knowing what is cheap and what works is always good for us. Mil-spec mags are great, and everyone should have some, but knowing whether or not the cheaper US-made .223 mags are worthwhile is also valuable.

Edited August 22, 2012 by mancat