TWS dog leg scope rail - thoughts

[Red Star 38]

Hey all!

 

I am looking at the TWS rail with envious eyes...

 

all the reviews i have seen on the internets have been positive, and in the latest guns and ammo book of the AK, it was reviewed positively as well.

 

I was hoping that I could get some real world reviews from the folks that have them installed here.

 

At the moment, i have a generic side rail, and its ok. the problem with it is I have to remove the scope in order to disassemble the rifle. This constantly changes the zero on it.

 

anyways.

 

If you have/had the TWS rail, what are your thoughts on it?

 

Thanks again,

 

Red.

[Squishy 1,149]

When asking for the best way to scope my MAK90 ChilieRellno recommended the Dog Leg and he's forgot more about all of this than I'll ever know. There has also been positive input from other knowledgeable shooters here. The only option that is close to the Dog Leg IMO is the unit by Krebs but it is over twice the price. CSS was out of them for a long time and then they got them in. I screwed around and could kick myself but now they're out again.

 

The next time they are available I'm gonna be like white on rice and get one.

 

Not exactly what you asked for but I hope it's useful input.

Edited May 24, 2012 by Squishy

[Red Star 38]

yeah... 310 dollars for a bit of machined aluminium is a bit dear for me... krebs is out.

 

Scallywag, your input was indeed helpful It allowed me to eliminate the krebs. LOL.

[jimdigriz 580]

What caliber is this for? I would not have one for a Saiga 308 due to the spacer issue.

 

I know most of the reviews were positive, but I have shied away from it for several reasons:

1) It makes the ejection port area smaller, thus theoretically reducing ejection reliability. As far as I know this hasn't really proved a problem in the real world, with the AK's generous clearances.

2) The rear recoil rod and button are now an aluminum piece, and the button barely protrudes.

3) The top cover is harder to open in a hurry. Some rare malfunctions require one to remove the dust cover. A normal AK can fire find without the top cover, but it would be exceedingly awkward to fire with the TWS top cover open.

4) I watched the development process and was not impressed. The thing was on the market with serious problems early on, and Rafaga seemed to be applying kludges as he went along to correct. However, it appears he may have finally gotten it right.

5) I want to see how it holds up long term.

 

Also, it was reviewed favorably by Sturmgewehre at first, but later, in his

of the RS AKML, he said in the comments:

"They really are two totally different systems. The TWS is good as long as you're not too rough on the rifle. A drop like I did with the RS Products mount would likely cause serious point shift with the TWS. I think the TWS is a great square range mounting option but not all that well suited for a rifle you would use in a hardcore rifle course or for more serious work."

and

"I may do a torture test of the TWS. I'm not using it anymore, so I might as well throw it on one of my beater test AK's and bang it around some. But I'm pretty sure I know what the result will be... point of impact shift. Check out the new Midwest Industries AKSM mount if you want a low profile rail system."

and

"Once you own one and shoot with one, you'll see why I believe that. The guys as SI, specifically Gabe, have their reasons for going with TWS. It's not a bad system, but it's not the best solution from a durability perspective IMHO."

 

Not sure how valid all this is, but there it is for what its worth.

Edited May 24, 2012 by Jim Digriz

[Dad2142Dad 6,559]

You'll really like the TWS. Send Greg a PM, he'll email you when they come in. Best 130 I have spent on any of my Saiga's

 

1) It makes the ejection port area smaller, thus theoretically reducing ejection reliability. As far as I know this hasn't really proved a problem in the real world, with the AK's generous clearances.

2) The rear recoil rod and button are now an aluminum piece, and the button barely protrudes.

3) The top cover is harder to open in a hurry. Some rare malfunctions require one to remove the dust cover. A normal AK can fire find without the top cover, but it would be exceedingly awkward to fire with the TWS top cover open.

4) I watched the development process and was not impressed. The thing was on the market with serious problems early on, and Rafaga seemed to be applying kludges as he went along to correct. However, it appears he may have finally gotten it right.

5) I want to see how it holds up long term.

 

1, I have had zero issue with shell ejection on .223

 

2. If the button does not protrude, you did not install it correctly

 

3. The bottom of the button may need to be filed or sanded to allow for smooth operation. I'll have to try it with the top cover open

 

4. Did not watch the development process

 

5. Long term everybody will have to see

Edited May 24, 2012 by Dad2142Dad

[jimdigriz 580]

2. If the button does not protrude, you did not install it correctly

I'm hardly the only person to complain that the button doesn't stick out very far.

[BrutalGardener 205]

At the moment, i have a generic side rail, and its ok. the problem with it is I have to remove the scope in order to disassemble the rifle. This constantly changes the zero on it.

 

Maybe you just need a better side-mounted weaver rail, like a BP-02 or a Molot made one? Those are designed to keep zero when removed and re-attached. My BP-02 sure does. An extra low profile BP-02 is still A LOT cheaper than a TWS dogleg.

Edited May 24, 2012 by SpetsnazGRU

[kiddykane 28]

Here is my honest opinion about the dog leg rail. Great Platform for optics!!!

 

I did encounter an issue when installing the retainer clip to the hinge pin that goes thru the rear sight base. It was hard to get on but once I had it on there it hasn't popped off yet. I've heard a few other people on here mention that they have had to run the system without the clip because they lost it. The good news is that there is enough pressure from the leaf spring to keep everything in place.

 

Another issue I had was that I also had to purchase a 1/2inch picatinny rail riser to install the scope I bought because the front end of the scope ran into the rear sight base. This could have been avoided if I had chose a different scope/mounts, so it really just depends on the length of the optic you want.

 

For the $130 you'll pay for it you will be glad you did. Right now it's the hot item to get for your AK.

 

Here is a pic of the rifle without the riser mount. (Notice how the scope had to be positioned. AWKWARD)

Here is a pic with the riser

And here it is today!!! I love the TWS Dog Leg Rail

Edited May 25, 2012 by Kiddy Kane

[tatonic 159]

I recommend the TWS rail whole-heartily.

[Red Star 38]

Thanks very much for the info guys!

 

Jim, its for my 20 inch 7.62 x 39. I have that rifle set up as a long range shooter, got a red field 3 to 9x scope sitting on top. I wouldnt really call it a rough use weapon, I have the 5.45 for that On the 5.45 i have the PK-01V, and that mount is like a rock. It centers itself on the rail, so returning to zero is easy to do.

 

SInce I have the hard use 5.45, i want to try and trick out the 7.62 a bit.

 

Kiddy Kane, thanks for the heads up about the scope! I will need to check to see if I have the clearance, otherwise i will need to get a riser like you did. (sweet looking rifle by the way sir ) I watched Sturmgewers review on the tws, and he was good enough to show us how to install it. I noticed that he took the leaf spring for the rear sight out, Since you guys have left the spring in, I assume it works both ways.

 

Has anyone added the peep sight that you can get with the TWS? The only part of the whole process that i am iffy about is losing the rear iron sight, but if i slap on the peep, that will solve it. It will also increase the sight radius, which is never a bad thing.

 

Thanks again guys! I will do a bit of homework and make a decision from there. So far the TWS is looking mighty fine...

[jimdigriz 580]

Has anyone added the peep sight that you can get with the TWS? The only part of the whole process that i am iffy about is losing the rear iron sight, but if i slap on the peep, that will solve it.

 

They also have a notched sight like the standard AK sights.

[Dad2142Dad 6,559]

I have the peep sight on mine, have been thinking about opening it up just a bit. Mounted on the rail all the way back, can't even tell it is there with the red dot in place. As Jim noted they have started selling a notched sight. It is mounted on the forward bracket that holds the cover. So if you go that route you have to replace the forward bracket (Which is not a big deal) and a couple of bucks more than the peep sight.

 

The other thing to remember here is that TWS is way behind on orders. Worth the wait.

[BrutalGardener 205]

Thanks very much for the info guys!

 

Jim, its for my 20 inch 7.62 x 39. I have that rifle set up as a long range shooter, got a red field 3 to 9x scope sitting on top. I wouldnt really call it a rough use weapon, I have the 5.45 for that On the 5.45 i have the PK-01V, and that mount is like a rock. It centers itself on the rail, so returning to zero is easy to do.

 

I know that they are all cheering you on to go ahead and get the Dog Leg, but once again, if you like how your PK-01V mounts and keeps zero when re-attached, you might just want to consider getting a low and centered BP-02 side-mounted rail, which is 1/2 the price.

[Red Star 38]

Hey Spetsnaz

 

Yup, I have not disqualified the Russian self centering mounts at all. Honestly, I will probably end up going that way, but the TWS rail just looks cool

 

I was also looking at the Beryl mount as that is pretty much the same thing, but, i think you have to modify parts to get the beryl mount to work correctly. Which is a pity as I have the beryl folding stock on it right now.

 

any rate, thanks for your advice sir

[Dad2142Dad 6,559]

Spetsnaz is right about the side mount. Not sure if you have looked in the optics section, TX-Zen has done some awesome write-ups.

[Red Star 38]

oh yes, I have read Zens write ups. They were invaluable when i was picking out a red dot.

[RJS 952 4]

http://aa-ok.com/ak-47-beryl-style-scope-mount-with-quick-detach-flip-up-sight.html

 

http://akpartskits.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=5_12&products_id=19&zenid=3a837d755278210d7f0f2f5128dad597

 

 

http://akpartskits.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=5_12&products_id=18

 

 

 

 

In reading some posts here, I also posted on a beryl mount and some other options. I dont know much about the AK sighting platforms, which one is better or worse or for what purposes you are doing w/ the rifle, so i'm grateful for those who have the knowledge and their opinions on what they found to work , and which ones were a good piece of equipment and if some are over priced POS. Above are some links to what I found when scouring for a decent rear sight. I like irons, but im getting older(54) and the vision is not the best, so aperture sights suit me better than the stock version on my rifle.Obviously a red dot or reflex might suit me much better, and was also wondering if any of thes items that I linked mite also be able to co witness an optic such as those mentioned. Please advise on any of these, , thank you

[TheMantis 11]

I just installed two TWS dog leg gen 2's. One on a 7.62 x 39, one on a .223. I mounted a PA micro on each rifle. Both mounts and red dots held zero for over 200 rounds each and several openings and closings. My wife and I were just shooting for fun, not groups. So I wasn't benched. I sighted in both rifles quickly prone, then were were able to nail clays standing all day from 50 yards (paced).

 

I will be going to the range in the next few weeks, and will try to shoot groups with each rifle and post pics.

 

No failures of any kind on either rifle.