My RenegadeBuck and MSA Adapter Experience

[marsofold 6]

Bought RenegadeBuck's adapter last year. Very minor dremmeling needed to install. Worked fine, even with no bullet guide, except that invariably the magazine would fall out of the gun after a few shots. With P-Mags sometimes I'd get off ten shots & with Fusil steel mags usually only two or three shots, then the mag would fall out. Apparently the part of the adapter that inserts into the notch in the magazine wasn't going in deep enough. I gave up on it. Then I tried MSA's adapter. Couldn't believe the amount of metal that I had to dremel away to get the thing to (barely) click in. Worried that I had ruined my rifle. The MSA adapter worked, but for some reason the last round in both magazines invariably jammed by feeding the nose of the bullet just below the chamber. So I installed Dinzag's bullet guide as a last resort. Had to file a notch in the MSA adapter to accommodate the bullet guide, and while doing so I also filed a little bit on the adapter's other upper forward edges so that the adapter wasn't so extremely tight to click in. Now all is well. Went to the range this weekend and shot off 100+ rounds with no failures of any kind. Now I'm glad I bought the thing.

[pyzik 597]

Thanks for sharing. We can never have too much first hand experience info here.

[SgtRaven 531]

Renegade Buck mentioned something about adding additional spring for use with PMAGs.

You might want to contact him about your issue.

 

Glad you've got MSA adapter working well.

Can you still use AK mags with adapter removed?

 

Thanks for sharing.

Happy Shooting!

[Garys4598 1,065]

Thanks for sharing. We can never have too much first hand experience info here.

 

+1

[gunfun 3,931]

+2

[su16a 84]

thanks for you post from the new guy. Actually this was the primary reason I joined, I’ve been going round and round about installing one of these. A friend advised against it then someone else in another forum (who I have allot of respect for) said they were great but in the end we have to make our own decisions. Both of those guys know their stuff but I’m not interested in grinding out my Saiga as you said for the MSA only to run the risk of having it the receiver crack. Just because you don’t see the cracks that doesn’t mean they aren’t there.

 

I have several PMAGs and from my short time here I see there Is a problem with the PMAGS mags on the RB so I guess that kills the RenegadeBuck option. My first choice (AKA plan A) would be just to install the bullet guide and use the Tapco clone Galil/Golani mags but my dilemma is I’m not in a FREE state and we have the mag restrictions. That said if anyone know where to get pinned 15 round Galil/Golani (Tapco clones) mags please advise

[ImperialArt 29]

I'm not positive, but maybe you can see about a mag block that will fit the golani/galil mags.

 

http://www.magazineblocks.com/magento/products/magblock-kits.html

[SgtRaven 531]

That said if anyone know where to get pinned 15 round Galil/Golani (Tapco clones) mags please advise

 

(Tapco) Galil/Golani mags are "wobbly as drunk Ivan" (read this post).

I guess 10-rounds Saiga OEM mag is your first best bet.

SGM (x-Surefire) 20- or 30-round mag with its presets for hacking it into 10 or 20-rounder would be your next bet. You still need to modify them slightly.

http://www.cheaperth...GSSF223P-1.html

 

Speaking of either AR mag adapter: it all depends how bad do you want to use AR mag in your Saiga.

I wanted them badly, but was very cautious about hacking my Saiga beyond the safe and reasonable; therefore I went with "heavily modifying" my adapter instead.

 

Some of my comments caused heated arguments with manufacturer (getting ahead, discussion ended peacefully and respectfully; see p.3 of my "AKAR" thread).

Disclaimer: I'm not pimping, but sharing.

 

Good luck with whichever path you chose.

Happy Shooting!

Edited May 31, 2012 by Sgt. Raven

[marsofold 6]

Can you still use AK mags with adapter removed?

 

Don't know. Haven't tried now that the MSA adapter/bullet guide combo work. Awhile back I bought nine Weiger (or Century clones?) and a bunch of metal Galil mags. I modded three of the Weigars to get them to click in to my rifle (only one well done IMHO). Since my buttstock was the only part I replaced, using either would violate 922r and until the SHTF I don't feel comfortable about that. So I guess I'll just sell them. Maybe keep the best modded one...

[avnate 335]

To address the "Hacking", "dremeling" and "Cutting" or howevery you wish to put it and the overall reliability. It is all going to boil down to YOUR skill level and attention to detail. If you do not understand the properties of metal cutting and heat then you will mess up and have bad results. All you are doing is opening the trunnion up to that of a double stack one.... like that seen in many MIL-Spec rifles/AKs. And as stated before in another thread the test mule we used had 12k rounds and no signs of structural failure or fatigue. Keep in mind we used a mill to remove with cutting/cooling fluid. The key is to control heat and not remove the temper of the metal. If you do... that is when you will see the failures in the trunnion.

 

When done right it'll be hard to wipe the smile off your face when your shooting buddies flip seeing an AR mag in an AK.

 

YMMV

[wpflgun 3]

I went with the Renegade buck adapter, but would have no qualms going with MSA. I have had a great experience, although I underestimated the amount of material to be removed. I went very slow and now have a great fitting adapter that loves AR mags of all types.

 

As a result of the material removed for the adapter, I have found that both Galil steel and Tapco Galil/Golani mags fit pretty well without modification. Prior to removing the trunnion material for the adapter, Galil's had to have the front area ground down in order for the mag to seat properly (instructions elsewhere on this site). So the un-ground mag seats in deep enough w/o mod of the mag. You may still have to tweek your Galil's a little, mileage may vary.

 

Some of my previously modded mags (AK, not AR), including one Pro-Mag, fit a little looser than I wanted afterwards. I found that the wobble could be significantly reduced to tolerable level by building up the surface of the mags, particularly in the front, with JB Weld. If the JB Weld is painted after fitting, it is pretty durable, no problems with mine.

Edited May 31, 2012 by wpflgun

[su16a 84]

I'm not positive, but maybe you can see about a mag block that will fit the golani/galil mags.

 

http://www.magazineb...block-kits.html

 

Thanks for the link, will check it out

 

 

That said if anyone know where to get pinned 15 round Galil/Golani (Tapco clones) mags please advise

 

(Tapco) Galil/Golani mags are "wobbly as drunk Ivan" (read this post).

I guess 10-rounds Saiga OEM mag is your first best bet.

SGM (x-Surefire) 20- or 30-round mag with its presets for hacking it into 10 or 20-rounder would be your next bet. You still need to modify them slightly.

http://www.cheaperth...GSSF223P-1.html

 

Speaking of either AR mag adapter: it all depends how bad do you want to use AR mag in your Saiga.

I wanted them badly, but was very cautious about hacking my Saiga beyond the safe and reasonable; therefore I went with "heavily modifying" my adapter instead.

 

Some of my comments caused heated arguments with manufacturer (getting ahead, discussion ended peacefully and respectfully; see p.3 of my "AKAR" thread).

Disclaimer: I'm not pimping, but sharing.

 

Good luck with whichever path you chose.

Happy Shooting!

How bad do I want the adapter? Well not desperate but I did think it would be a nice upgrade provided I could have used my supply of PMAGS. Apparently both systems have their Pros and Cons so that is the dilemma for me at the moment. I guess we could all agree if you are an AR & Saiga guy with AR mags laying around that makes a great case for the modification. I’m not an AR guy. I don’t dislike or like them, I simply don’t own one. Perhaps one day…

I have the KelTec SU16 which uses AR mags and I have ample supply of PMAGS. If the RenegadeBuck system has a problem with PMAGS that’s not going to do me any good. PMAGS are the only AR type mags I own. They work flawlessly in my SU16, in fact this is OT but the factory 10rd SU16 mags are horrible. If Pmags don’t work in an RB adapter there isn’t much incentive for me to move forward since all I have are PMags. Mine mags are pinned so as you know the pinned mags cost more than the standard off-the-shelf 30rd jobs. My view is it should work with any AR mag. I guess for now I’ll just sit on the sidelines and try to collect as much info as I can before I decide to do the Mod or not, maybe I take another look at the MSA.

Someone in another forum turned me on to Saigas last year and now I have it in 223, 7.62x39, and 308. It took me 6 months to pick up a brake for my 308 so I’m likely not to rush into this either. These are clearly my favorite rifles. I love them all but the 233 and 7.62 are the ones getting the range time. The 223 just amazes me how smooth it operates and the 7.62 is just a fun round to shoot. Thank you again for your help!

Edited June 3, 2012 by su16a