Update on RAA as importing Saigas

[expeditionx 1]

I called and spoke to the nice lady that answers the phone at RAA.

 

She said their website is being reviewed for any flaws and should hopefully be up in a couple of days.

 

I asked if they will be importing rifles and shotguns and she said yes both.

 

I asked about the largest magazine capacity they will import for any weapon and it will be no more than 10 rounds. The explanation is the ATF Tech branch person that had some kind of meeting with her said " you can import the 30 rounders but if you do its going to violate our new policy about uncompliant imported rifles and we will declare the saiga unimportable and cut off your permit to import and if you import the rifle 10 round capacity magazines in the 30 round shell people are going to convert then to 30 rounders so we cant allow that either"

 

And the startling topic was about saiga shotguns.

 

She said she was told that if they import shot gun magazines over 5 round capacity to distribute the ATF will declare the saiga shot gun as a destructive device and will no longer be importable ( this also means having to register any saiga shot gun regardless if its all 100 percent russian parts or converted winning the 10 foreign parts or less game- this a no win situation with all these converted saigas) and subject to registration as a destructive weapon.

 

I guess Bvamp was right about not pushing the envelope because it will spell registration for all saiga shotguns that are owned by civilians on American soil.

 

I asked what about the saiga 30 rounders that are already here and she said they allowed EAA to bring them in but have changed their policy.

 

Anyone doubt what i said just call RAA the number is on the other thread.

[Wolverine 10,360]

So BATFE has a little problem with importing eight round S-12 magazines from Russia, huh? Wait till they (BATFE) get wind there is a specific Knox Drum being released in November of this year for the S-12. That will give them something to test out on the Tech Branch range.

 

Maybe that's why BATFE requires a Form 6 for imported items ( like magazines) with a value over U.S. $100.

 

Somehow I find it difficult to believe they will declare the Saiga .410 shotties as DD's. After all the .410 holds far less shot than a 12 and is technically a rifle caliber not a shotgun "gauge". Who cares if a 922r "rifle" has a 5 or 10 round magazine?

 

WE know that RAA is not going to do anything that jeopardizes their permits and licensing to import.

 

W.

[expeditionx 1]

The lady at RAA said they can make more money selling Saiga rifles and shotguns than selling 30 round 7.62 and 8 round shotgun magazines. They could just import magazines but that would be it for further importation of Saiga longarms under the current ATF policy.

 

Would you rather have more guns imported or alot of magazines?

The tradeoff for the 8 round shotgun mag importation is the hassel of deciding what to do when saiga shotguns become a destructive device.

I personally do not want to see the shotguns become DD's.

[Wolverine 10,360]

If the Knoxx drum for the Saiga is released as expected it is only a matter of time before the S-12 will be tagged. BATFE can create, change, and rescind the "rules" at whim. They are not going to permit hundreds of Saiga S-12's to be imported while anyone and everyone can buy a quick change 10 round drum for them. With proliferation will come control. Bank on it.

 

W.

[TWGLADF 0]

yep. me and alot of other guys always said that if the drum comes, so does the dd tag.

 

i've survived a few years with just my 5 rounders and i don't feel like i've missed out on anything.

 

5 is enough for me. if ya want more, buy a fucking pump and do the knox convert.

 

as far as the rifles go, if ya want high cap, get a real ak, ar15, mini14, ar10, fal, cetme, etc, etc, etc.

 

i know what they are doing is fucked up and not right but there is not a damn thing we can do about it and we just have to live with it for now.

 

i'm satisfied with my 5 round shotties and my 8 and 10 round saiga rifles. but i guess thats b/c i have real "normal capacity" rifles to fall back on. sure i'd love to see (just for the helluvit) hi point make their little carbines take 30 round mags. but for now, i can live with it. i guess if round capacity is an issue, buy a shit load of mags and there ya go.

 

my 2 cents, but might not be worth much.

[McUZI 1]

Somehow I find it difficult to believe they will declare the Saiga .410 shotties as DD's. 

 

They can't declare the .410's DD's.

They don't have a bore diameter over .50.

 

The 12's and 20's they can.

[BattleRifleG3 16]

Note that that is RAA.

 

If someone ELSE makes higher cap mags, then that's another matter.

 

Seems here the ATF is playing a lousy game here of holding their permit approval authority over RAA's head.

 

Let them import them however they see fit. We can take it from there.

[dinzag 31]

I inquired as to which distributors RAAC would be dealing with and this is the reply I got from Debbie. (Last night) As soon as the site is up we can have our dealers contact the proper distributors.

 

 

HI,

 

ON OUR WEBSITE THERE WILL BE A LIST OF DISTRIBUTORS. YOU CAN GET THE NAMES OFF THE WEBSITE. THE WEBSITE WILL BE AVAILABLE TO VIEW NEXT WEEK. I HAVE SEEN THE WEBSITE IT LOOKS GREAT BUT THERE HAD TO BE SOME CHANGES MADE. IF YOU HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS LET ME KNOW.

 

THANK YOU

DEBBIE WOODS

[Bvamp 604]

when a drum magazine comes out for the s12, it WILL go DD. regardless of who makes it. the 8 rounders arent imported by any company. you are all b uying them privately as personal purchases.

 

you had better believe that when that knox drum comes out, you all as well as myself will have to go down to the police station, get fingerprinted, go on the record that you are a gun owner, and all that other nice stuff. I have a feeling in my facist state of NY, I will not be permitted to posess a DD as state law does not allow private citizens to possess them, just like you cant get a machine gun permit here.

 

its not like this shotgun is in the country in large enough quantities to actually make a killing off selling drums for it.

 

know how much of a pain in the ass you guys will have trying to sell the saigas when they are DD'd? talk about a small market.

 

I know im going to be pissed. as far as im concerned knox will be intentionally trying to take away my right to bear arms to some extent.

 

why doesnt the atf tell them to not do it?

[expeditionx 1]

Bvamp,

 

What do you think about threatening to boycott knox in a letter explaining to them they are about to screw up alot of peoples ownership of s12 shotguns?

If they get enough letters maybe it will become clear. Im sending one myself.

[expeditionx 1]

This is right off of the knoxx website.

 

Please note that the Sidewinder bears no similarity to the Street Sweeper or USA-12 shotguns. The Street Sweeper being a 12-shot revolver-type weapon and the USA-12, a magazine-fed semi-auto.

 

Federal law does restrict the installation of our products on semi-auto shotguns or those manufactured outside the United States. Doing so would constitute a federal felony with a hefty fine and prison sentence attached. Therefore, all of our products are designed in such a way as to prevent their installation on any semi-auto shotgun.

 

Question becomes then why the hell are you selling them?

[expeditionx 1]

Letter sent hope they reconsider a boycott.

[M15A4spr 0]

I know im going to be pissed. as far as im concerned knox will be intentionally trying to take away my right to bear arms to some extent.

Excuse me, but isn't it the "Pro-Gun" administration that's crushing our rights?

 

* BBL import ban

* atf just as out of control under bitch..errr bush as it was under klinton

* pushed for aw ban

* appointed PRO-aw-ban A.G.

* failed to order the state of LA to stop gun confiscation.

* failed to repeal even one (1) gun grab.

 

Glad you're mad, I am too. Just be mad in the right direction.

Edited September 24, 2005 by M15A4spr

[expeditionx 1]

Best solution but unfortunately he does not have enough support currently.

Michael Badnarik For President of The United States

 

http://www.badnarik.org/

 

But I would be supporting him 100 percent to the white house.

[Z1500 0]

Letter sent hope they reconsider a boycott.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Good job. They already decided they weren't going to build them for the S-12. You're a little late.

 

Kevin

[expeditionx 1]

Good job. They already decided they weren't going to build them for the S-12. You're a little late.

 

Kevin

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Z1500 glad your on top of this matter but could you be alittle less sarcastic towards someone that hasnt ever smarted off at you.

I was only trying to help im sure an asshole like yourself does not appreciate a well intended effort even if i wasnt fully imformed.

[Z1500 0]

Don't get too bent out of shape. I'm just poke'n at you a little. There are like 4-5 other threads on these forums about the Knoxx mag idea being dropped.

 

Kevin

[NoTreason4 0]

I think threatening to boycott a company that is making a product because of what you fear the ATF will do is, well, damn pansy.

 

If you wanna write letters, write them to the president, and next time, don't vot for a gun grabber, even if he is a republican.

 

There is no excuse-- Bush stated his support for the "assault weapons" ban, closing the gun show loophole, etc before the election, publically. Hell, his father and Reagan also are on record in support of these things.

 

The reason we have gun control is not democrats, but the fact that gun owners are all find with gun control when enacted by republicans.

 

Ok, had to get that off my chest. Tired of hearing republican gun owners blame democrats (who are out of office) for actions clearly taken by the bush administration.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

And I suppose you think those two joke ass Johns would have been a better choice?

[dinzag 31]

And I suppose you think those two joke ass Johns would have been a better choice?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

We need a smiley with coffee shooting out his nose!

[uzitiger 193]

I know im going to be pissed. as far as im concerned knox will be intentionally trying to take away my right to bear arms to some extent.

Excuse me, but isn't it the "Pro-Gun" administration that's crushing our rights?

 

* BBL import ban

* atf just as out of control under bitch..errr bush as it was under klinton

* pushed for aw ban

* appointed PRO-aw-ban A.G.

* failed to order the state of LA to stop gun confiscation.

* failed to repeal even one (1) gun grab.

 

Glad you're mad, I am too. Just be mad in the right direction.

 

M15A4 is right Bitch...Bush is no friend of gun owners nor was his father who was an NRA member. The only reason I voted for Bush Jr. was beacause Kerry was even more anti gun than him. Bush and Kerry were both members Skull and Bones at Yale so we had to choose the lesser of two evils. With the patriot act they can have an easier time taking our guns away and the ATF has become part of 'Homeland Security' who will be even more adept at arresting gun owners while 'Homeland Security' is inept at keeping out illegal aliens from Mexico and Canada. Look at the millions of Mexicans in this country and the Arabs infesting the US from Canada.