Strange change in performance...

[operationlattethunder 1]

I converted my S-12 and that went smoothly. First day at the range it ran through a box of low brass with all factory gas system parts in place.

See? No problem.

Since then the only changes I've made are the addition of the Chaos extended rail with HK sights, and a Vltor stock tube and Magpul stock. Now, It fails to eject EVERY. STINKIN. SHELL.

 

Any thoughts?

[chicagosfinest 26]

Take off one thing at a time and test it ..try the quad rail first

[operationlattethunder 1]

Nope. Pulled the rails off, stovepipe.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Clean out the ports.

[shoot2thrillu 10]

my answer? get a autoplug. set it and then keep shooting. doesnt change much to change how much pressureis there

[operationlattethunder 1]

I was looking at the autoplug, and probably the CSS puck while I'm at it. My concern however is not fixing it, but rather figuring out why the sudden change.

[poolingmyignorance 2,191]

If it worked before, then failed, and continued to fail after you reverted it to it's previously working configuration, then it probably just needs the ports cleaned out like Cobra already said.

Pull the gas plug and the puck, get ya a rod and clean all the junk out. Should work fine again. If you've shot a lot of that cheap junk in the bulk packs it's probably the culprit. It's dirty shit man.

[shoot2thrillu 10]

If it worked before, then failed, and continued to fail after you reverted it to it's previously working configuration, then it probably just needs the ports cleaned out like Cobra already said.

Pull the gas plug and the puck, get ya a rod and clean all the junk out. Should work fine again. If you've shot a lot of that cheap junk in the bulk packs it's probably the culprit. It's dirty shit man.

 

dirty is a understatement. i cant believe my gun would still cycle

 

hey thunder i live in ohio too pm me where your at

Edited August 27, 2012 by shoot2thrillu

[Long Shot 1,287]

+1 on gas ports. A paper clip might not be quite big enough. Find the biggest piece of wire that will fit through the holes.

 

Bend about 3/4" form the end a little past 90, the holes are angled towards the muzzle. Poke at em till all the junk is clear. If you find plastic and crud in the ports that's probably the issue.

[operationlattethunder 1]

I'll check the ports, but It would surprise me if that were the issue, as it worked fine, I cleaned it, put it away, and then the first round today FTE'd. Unless I clogged the ports when I cleaned it, how else could I go from successful 10rd mag dumps to not a single eject? Weird.

 

My other concern is that when I drifted the rear sight off to fit the Chaos extended rail, maybe I bent something. After lots of inspection and sliding the bolt with no spring behind it, it seems to travel fine. Maybe I'm just paranoid now that I can't figure it out.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

You may have misaligned the gas tube when beating the rear sight out. You should be able to feel any resistance points with the recopil spring out. Also it's possible your gas plug may be screwed down farther now than it was previously... try backing it out a turn.

[Long Shot 1,287]

Listen to the guys that have been around here for while. You will figure it out.

 

That's how I got mine running 100%. It was a full on vodka special when I got it.

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

I wish I could make mine run.... I get tired of carrying them

[Long Shot 1,287]

I wish I could make mine run.... I get tired of carrying them

 

I think I saw a thread here on a quadrapod you can buy for that.

[operationlattethunder 1]

Well, all 4 ports clear. I can't feel any binding in the bolt traveling through the gas tube. The only thing I did notice is that the puck didn't drop free when I pulled the gas plug out. I know I'm going to get some fouling, but having to push the puck out with a cleaning rod seemed a bit much. Maybe there was just a bit of schmutz around the puck and it was binding up a little. Rubbed down the inside of the gas chamber with some 600 grit, as well as the puck a little bit to get rid of any burrs if there were any. cleaned it up, blasted it with some remington dry-lube with teflon(hopfully that will foul slower without the oil residue). I can shake the shotgun now and hear the puck sliding around. Maybe that was it. It's a little late to blast another round out the back door now, guess I'll see if that did it tomorrow.

 

I know there's a million threads about the gas plugs. Seems that MD Arms are MIA. I saw that Cheaper Than Dirt has them, but it's $12 shipping on a $21 part that will fit in an envelope. Seems that the DPH isn't much better than the stock plug, and just as much as a pain to adjust as the stocker with the detent. The auto plug seems to be pretty slick, but everything I read says that it doesn't help with undergassed guns, but only lets you get away with no adjustment. I kind of like that, as every time I've shot 00 or slugs, I forgot to adjust the plug to #1.

 

The CSS plug seems to get rave reviews on helping with ejection. Maybe I'll go with that and the Tac47 plug. Help with cycling and make it idiot(me) proof in one shot.

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

Aftermarket regulators only allow finer adjustment of the existing gas available in the system. They do not fix or aid in anything other than increased adjustability.

 

The CSS puck may help a little (actually makes better use of the gas than the factory puck), but it sounds like you need some actual work done or you need to lose the quad.

[chicagosfinest 26]

Try the md booster puck i luke mine did make a little diference with the auto plug instaled

[operationlattethunder 1]

The CSS puck may help a little (actually makes better use of the gas than the factory puck), but it sounds like you need some actual work done or you need to lose the quad.

I pulled the rails and it still stovepiped, not that I can figure out how it would affect the gas operation anyway, It doesn't bind during installation at all. It was at least worth a shot, no pun intended.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Don't forget to try backing the plug out an additional turn past the first click...

[operationlattethunder 1]

Don't forget to try backing the plug out an additional turn past the first click...

Yeah, I did that today at the range. Ran the plug all the way in, backed it out to 1. Spun 180 degrees to 2 for low brass. FTE. Spun it out another 360 degrees back to the 2 again, FTE. Didn't matter. I'm really hoping that it was the puck binding up, even though it was relatively clean. I've got a CSS puck on the way now, and I'm still on the fence for the Tac47 plug. We'll see. As well as this shotgun worked right out of the box without any break-in or polishing, it's gotta be something stupid keeping it from working.

Edited August 27, 2012 by operationlattethunder

[athens_murder 9]

I'm by no means an expert, but my guess is actually the stock/buffer tube.

maybe it's not quite as rigid as the factory stock and is robbing just enough energy from the action to keep it from cycling fully?

 

I say switch back to the original one before taking more drastic measures

Edited August 27, 2012 by athens_murder

[Long Shot 1,287]

I'm by no means an expert, but my guess is actually the stock/buffer tube.

maybe it's not quite as rigid as the factory stock and is robbing just enough energy from the action to keep it from cycling fully?

 

I say switch back to the original one before taking more drastic measures

 

Wrong platform there.

[athens_murder 9]

Edit:

I'm by no means an expert, but my guess is actually the Magpul Stock/VLTOR stock tube.

maybe that setup is not quite as rigid as the factory stock and is robbing just enough energy from the action to keep it from cycling fully?

 

I say switch back to the original one before taking more drastic measures

 

Maybe I shouldn't have called it a "buffer tube"

But same concept. The less support your receiver has during recoil = The more energy lost and higher chance of FTE

 

You ever try to dump an S-12 magazine one handed (no other support)? Did you make it without a stoppage?

Edited August 27, 2012 by athens_murder

[operationlattethunder 1]

I'm by no means an expert, but my guess is actually the Magpul Stock/VLTOR stock tube.

maybe that setup is not quite as rigid as the factory stock and is robbing just enough energy from the action to keep it from cycling fully?

 

I thought the same thing, and I'm going to try it, seeing how it's only 2 screws. I seriously doubt it though, as the Vltor tube is actually more stable than the Tapco I originally had on it as seen in the video. I can't force any movement or flex with the new setup whatsoever. Later today I'm going to see if last night's inspection/cleaning resolved the issue, and if not, I'm going to swap the stock back and give it a whirl.

[poolingmyignorance 2,191]

Be sure to try it withthe factory 5 rounder and high brass.. Just to rule that out.

[athens_murder 9]

oh, you had a Tapco on it before (didn't see vid)? Man your right that VLTOR/Magpul should be much more stable..

Heck, my next build is gna have that same setup.

 

Well I'm puzzled; like I said that was my best guess. But it's worth a quick try

 

Be sure to try it withthe factory 5 rounder and high brass.. Just to rule that out.

 

^this. well keep us updated I'm curious. You'll figure it out though

[operationlattethunder 1]

Well, I **THINK** I might be retarded.

 

I threw the CSS puck in there and I'm getting ejections now, but they're pretty weak and last round stovepipes. I know that's because the next round in the mag helps with ejection, and the last round doesn't have that but of help. Progress nonetheless.

 

The retarded bit is that I went back and watched my video a few more times, and the best I can tell those shells were black, meaning they were a box of high brass I had. I could still swear that I also put a box of low brass through it that day, but now I can't remember. Who knows.

 

At least now it's ejecting and feeding, so now I can continue with the break in. I'm still gonna grab an auto plug just to simplify things, and hopefully use some of the gasses more efficiently.

 

Props to CSS though. The longer contact time with the bolt carrier really made a difference.

[poolingmyignorance 2,191]

The auto plug won't help an under gassed gun. You need to resolve the underlying issue first. How many Ports does your gun have? And what size? Also look into the polishing stickies. TheCSS will help but it's not the best solution. Get that thing slicked down and make sure you have sufficient gas flow. Let us know what you discover.hood luck

[operationlattethunder 1]

I understand the auto plug isn't going to change the under gassing issue. It's the fact that I forget to change the plug setting every time I switch ammo.

 

It's a 4 port gun, and they're all clear. I'm unsure of the size though. If I decide to pull the gas block and drill the ports, what is the optimum size ports on a 4 port gun?

[poolingmyignorance 2,191]

I understand the auto plug isn't going to change the under gassing issue. It's the fact that I forget to change the plug setting every time I switch ammo.

 

It's a 4 port gun, and they're all clear. I'm unsure of the size though. If I decide to pull the gas block and drill the ports, what is the optimum size ports on a 4 port gun?

Before you go through the trouble of pulling the gas block, have you done the polishing steps?