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vepr tigr svd dragunov magazine well conversion.


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#1 saigway

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 12:52 AM

So I have seen on some other forum (ak files I belive,) that this has been done by a fellow named black horse arsenal or something of the nature of that.
So I guess I am pretty interested in this a lot.
I love everything I have seen about the vepr besides the magazine.
I've been waiting patiently and talking on the forums a lot before I buy a high powered more accurate rifle.
My thing is I've always wanted a psl. I love the looks of its dragunov look choate (I belive that's the name of that style) wooden stock. Only thing keeping me from getting one once was I had a good friend of mine mention to me they are very bad about some ammo in 7.62 54r having to much powder pressure.

I don't want one I'm limited to worrying about it breaking or if the ammo I'm shooting will run the gun or blow up in my face because its old.

This makes the vepr sound even better to me. I've also never owned a rpk or a vepr. Heck I even talked to russian hammer a lot on chat and considered getting a fal. I really like the looks of the carry handles on rpks and fals. I also really like the saiga .308 a lot to, they both look pretty beast with how the mags are straight down.

I guess what I'm saying here and getting at is I'm pretty deadset on getting a vepr. ive owned alot of aks in 7.62x39 so im pretty used to banna mags and thats all ive ever had besides the saiga 12. Id like to buy one and convert it to my tastes. soon as soon as those 10 round mags are released and are available from purchase somewhere i will probley go ahead and get myself one. if anyone knows more about costs of a vepr to dragunov magwell conversion id be interested in getting some work done possibly if there are never any mags released higher than 5. My main reason is haveing a designated marksmen rifle capable of hitting decent groups at 500 yards or atleast mansize targets and way further hopefully. It just kinda sucks right now cause .308 is expensive 54r is cheaper for me and I can't do 5 round mags so its the first thing id want to get. But I am pretty deadset on getting a vepr soon I just hate the mags are different in single stack I don't know why they didn't just make it similar to the tigrs in the first place.

Edited by skullface405420, 07 September 2012 - 01:52 AM.


#2 Salmonking

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 09:49 AM

Out of curiosity, how many rounds would you think a DMR would need to shoot at 500 yards before needing to reload? I couldn't see shooting more than 5 rounds at a target if I didn't want the barrel to sizzle and groups to open up.

The main upset that I have when I look at the 7.62x54r vs .308 is quantity of ammunition vs quality of ammunition. The Vepr is by far the best semi auto 54r currently on the market- if you've got a cache of 7.62x54r already stocked up it makes it even more tempting. If you're looking for "match grade" accuracy- go .308, If you have a ton of 54r or are looking to buy a ton of 54r- go 7.62x54r; remember, surplus doesn't stay surplus forever.
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#3 Dracozny

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 10:43 AM

I've never heard of any 54r surplus blowing up any rifles. not to say its ever happened, I just never heard of such a thing. as far as surplus and match grade, if you have 54r 7n1 then it would be great match ammo, however 7n1 is generally harder to find. 7n2 is more common to be found, the result is less than spectacular groups on paper.
Like you I wanted a dragunov, I actually wanted the Russian tried and true version, not the PSL or the NDM but cost and lack of parts really put me off from doing such a thing (even for the PSL this is becoming a problem). so in many ways I agree with you that the vepr is a good alternative. when it comes down to the 54r vs .308 you have a few factors that come into play.
from my research 54r is always touted as the big boy because its a longer cartridge, but when it comes down to the numbers .308 has a more powerful powder charge. if you compare it to 7.62x51 then the numbers are more comparable(I know same size case but ones more powerful how is that? right?.) there is way more options for ammo in .308 because of the number of manufacturers and popularity of the round among hunters, bolt action matches, and LE Military communities around the world. there is the Tigr which is a Russian hunting version of the Dragunov in .308, too bad those pesky import laws are such a pain in everyone's backside.
In the end for me, I chose the super vepr in .308 because of these factors. the downside for all vepr's of course is the lack of parts is still an issue. I suspect as popularity grows more parts will become available, most likely US made.
making a vepr 54r look like a dragunov is possible though, Ironwooddesigns is developing the hand gaurd and buttstock for em. I have no idea when they will actually release them however.
as far as mags the .308 and 7.62x39 even better hands down has the better options, csspec makes 20rd mags that fit the .308 models although I and another fellow on this board had to do some fit and finish on the mags to get them to fit the supers, the stamped its just a small amount of filing, the older slabs that I have required a bit more tinkering.

given that it sounds like you want this for sniping/target practice you will probably be focusing on your shots and group patterns to be shooting rapidly, although in a SHTF scenario I am confident that any of these rifles would be able to handle the stress.

hope that gives you some more insight.
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#4 saigway

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 08:50 PM

I've never heard of any 54r surplus blowing up any rifles. not to say its ever happened, I just never heard of such a thing. as far as surplus and match grade, if you have 54r 7n1 then it would be great match ammo, however 7n1 is generally harder to find. 7n2 is more common to be found, the result is less than spectacular groups on paper.
Like you I wanted a dragunov, I actually wanted the Russian tried and true version, not the PSL or the NDM but cost and lack of parts really put me off from doing such a thing (even for the PSL this is becoming a problem). so in many ways I agree with you that the vepr is a good alternative. when it comes down to the 54r vs .308 you have a few factors that come into play.
from my research 54r is always touted as the big boy because its a longer cartridge, but when it comes down to the numbers .308 has a more powerful powder charge. if you compare it to 7.62x51 then the numbers are more comparable(I know same size case but ones more powerful how is that? right?.) there is way more options for ammo in .308 because of the number of manufacturers and popularity of the round among hunters, bolt action matches, and LE Military communities around the world. there is the Tigr which is a Russian hunting version of the Dragunov in .308, too bad those pesky import laws are such a pain in everyone's backside.
In the end for me, I chose the super vepr in .308 because of these factors. the downside for all vepr's of course is the lack of parts is still an issue. I suspect as popularity grows more parts will become available, most likely US made.
making a vepr 54r look like a dragunov is possible though, Ironwooddesigns is developing the hand gaurd and buttstock for em. I have no idea when they will actually release them however.
as far as mags the .308 and 7.62x39 even better hands down has the better options, csspec makes 20rd mags that fit the .308 models although I and another fellow on this board had to do some fit and finish on the mags to get them to fit the supers, the stamped its just a small amount of filing, the older slabs that I have required a bit more tinkering.

given that it sounds like you want this for sniping/target practice you will probably be focusing on your shots and group patterns to be shooting rapidly, although in a SHTF scenario I am confident that any of these rifles would be able to handle the stress.

hope that gives you some more insight.



that does help me out alot, thanks! and i am wanting a more accurate rifle, i have a 7.62x39 with hi cap mags if i want to waiste ammo. more and more i think about it, .308 starts to sound better. i am just familiar with 54r because of the few nagants ive had and i fairly like the round.
however, that being said if it is just as accurate, more powerful and parts for these guns are more readily available .308 just keeps seeming like the better choice.

now im leaning between a FAL or a saiga .308 or i wonder if vepr .308s are any different, maybe you could insight me. i know they are both ak platforms but do they take the same mags? it just seems to me like the .308 guns have more parts and accesorrys available than this vepr at the moment. and there also more readily available.

#5 Dracozny

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 09:25 PM

Vepr .308's will not accept Saiga .308 mags. really the best aftermarket .308 mags for the Vepr are from csspec. the Vepr is based off the rpk although the action is basically similar its much thicker receiver.
since the Vepr's are still reaching a point of mass popularity parts are still hard to come buy, they are solid rifles however if you went this route I don't think you would be disappointed overall unless you want to heavily modify. total weight on my super including a full 20rd mag is 15lbs, keep in mind weight is a good counter for recoil short of dealing with buffertube stocks and such. if rifle weight is a concern the Saiga would be the best over either FAL or Vepr.
Out the gate the Saiga may be cheaper. you will have to check the Saiga boards on here to understand more about them and where your costs will wind up as far as modifications go. amusingly the main reason I am on this board is for what little there is out there for discussion about the Vepr.

in comparison the the FAL, that's an entirely different animal, I have never had the pleasure of firing one, from what I have read and seen, its no target rifle its just a straight up battle rifle, if you want a rifle that will most likely never die on you when SHTF then it maybe a good option, however cost wise they will be more expensive out of the box compared to the Vepr or the Saiga. when there were parts kits available for the FAL you could build them ten ways from Sunday as long as you made sure not to mix metric and standard measurement parts. mags used to be much cheaper, now I think its a toss up in comparison to Vepr mag prices.

Edited by Dracozny, 07 September 2012 - 09:30 PM.


#6 csspecs

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 09:52 PM

now im leaning between a FAL or a saiga .308 or i wonder if vepr .308s are any different, maybe you could insight me. i know they are both ak platforms but do they take the same mags? it just seems to me like the .308 guns have more parts and accesorrys available than this vepr at the moment. and there also more readily available.


The saiga is a little simpler on the conversion to standard AK configuration, vepr you almost don't need to.

From a mag perspective saiga is a little more stout but vepr are a little more positive feeding.

We have a vepr 54r and we had planned to do a single stack 10 round and 15 round but I'm going in a different direction on that. SGM does have their single stack out.

http://stores.csspecs.com/
For metal Saiga-12, Saiga .308 and Vepr .308 magazines.

 

http://www.facebook.com/csspecs


#7 saigway

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 11:41 PM

this is a good place. i always get nice responses from people. (most of the time.) this is the first forum ive ever really been on alot and i like this community alot. everyone seems to share a good intrest in these type of guns.
i had always wondered that about the .308 vepr and saiga mags so i guess i got my awnser, thank you!

cssspec that is a .308 saiga in your picture , correct? it has a very nice stock on it i like it. i have currently only a 7.62x39 saiga and a .22lr bolt action but ive owned other saigas before. as far as price on fals go im not sure all to much of the .308 veprs but i know budsgunshop has imbel reciever fals for 750$ but i'd really like to keep my collection of guns in the AKM family for the most part.

so im still on the fence of the vepr 54r or the fal. i wouldnt mind owning the saiga .308, as i have done a few conversions.from what i have read moveing the FCG and adding a pistol grip on the saiga .308 is a little tougher than the .223 7.62x39 and 5.45.
but im sure i could do it with some help from people on the forum and vendors here.

i think i might just give it a month or two and wait and see the prices and what not are on the vepr 54r mags. if i was to modify it in any such way it would be to add a psl type looking wooden standard stock and the vented upper and lower handguards and thats about it. ideally what i want unless there isnt much way with magazines, in which case i might look into doing a magwell conversion if someone was offering a service to do it. but on that note from what i have talked to or seen on another forum, whoever had modifyed the magwell said that not only did they mill out the magwell to take svd mags, but that they also had to do modifications to the magazines them self. that seems like alot if thats the case i would just stick to whatever single stack mags are out there.

but idk, this post is kind of all over the place i just like to get views and opinions from everyone before i make a expensive gun decision and get stuck with something i am not happy with. such as a unaccurate rifle, because my 7.62x39 ak isnt all that accurate with a scope for long distance group shooting, its still nice. i'd just like to have something with a little more kick

#8 Risky

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 12:04 AM

We have a vepr 54r and we had planned to do a single stack 10 round and 15 round but I'm going in a different direction on that. SGM does have their single stack out.


I would be EXTREMELY interested in getting a hint as to what direction you're considering going and I'm hoping it is in making a .303 Bren or 54r Lahti machingun style magazine between 20-30 rounds.

#9 csspecs

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 10:39 PM

Scullface, Yes its a saiga .308, just wanted to have more of a classic AK look.

Risky:

I bought about two dozen sample magazines that feed rimmed rounds, mostly x54r but also some .303 including some prototypes that never got off the ground. Its something that may get off the ground sometime down the road but the design is too complicated to build, it needs to get chopped down to a manageable item before we can move forward on it.. I'd really like to break through the 20 round barrier, and still have the ability to shoot from a bench.

I'd say at best this will be slated for spring/summer of 2013, provided politicians don't screw things up.
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#10 Risky

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 09:58 PM

Thanks, csspecs. I know if there is to be an awesome quality steel magazine to be designed for this thing, you guys are the only ones that can do it. Good luck!




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