Angle King 0 Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 hey guys..so i was cuttin my barrel shroud off to thread it..i cut a little bit too deep ( about 1/16th) into the barrel itself..i dont think it will be a problem but i just wanted some input from you guys since you know what you are talking about..wondering if accuracy will be affect, if it will weaken the barrel...? Thanks... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mogunner 240 Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Nope. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pjj342 632 Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 I did the same thing, when the threads are cut you will never notice. There are two pieces of steel pinned on to the barrel, wrecking any type of harmonics that would add to accuracy (I assume). A little cut wont do a thing. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Agent Lemon 157 Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 I did the same thing, when the threads are cut you will never notice. There are two pieces of steel pinned on to the barrel, wrecking any type of harmonics that would add to accuracy (I assume). A little cut wont do a thing. This. I have accidentally cut a little too deep when using a dremel (pipe cutter tool all the way btw), and later when it was threaded, the threads made the cut disappear. Weather or not your threads will go past the cut or not should not matter, as the threads cut into the barrel probably just as deep. The thickness of the barrel wall is about 3.2mm at the muzzle. This leaves plenty of room. Not to mention that the existing pin that holds the gas block, it cuts like a 1.3mm into the barrel as well. Of course the barrel back there is like .7mm thicker, but its all good. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mostholycerebus 415 Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Time to cut it down to 14" and pin a muzzle break! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
canoecanoe 63 Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 You are not the first and you won't be the last. Don't worry about it. Not going to be a problem. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Angle King 0 Posted October 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2012 thanks Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Angle King 0 Posted October 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2012 whoa...i was just lookin inside my barrel and noticed that theres a line on the inside of the barrel about the same spot i accidently cut my barrel while cuttin off the shroud..i dont see how there would be a line from cuttin barly 1/16th of an inch with a pipe cutter..does n e one else have this??????????? PLEASE HELP??? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Agent Lemon 157 Posted October 13, 2012 Report Share Posted October 13, 2012 The line is going the same way as the cut? Sounds weird. If you cut it deep enough to see a line from the inside, then, well, you cut INTO the barrel. But if you cut into the barrel then you would have just cut off the whole section (if the cut goes all the way around). Try doing some basic stuff. Somehow put light into the barrel, go into the dark, close every possible hole, and see if any light comes out of cut. You can probably do a similar test by clogging it and blowing air inside. Be creative. When I got my first AK I got a tad worried when I spotted the gas hole. Of course after a couple minutes of looking at it I remembered how the thing works. If you have not messed with AKs too much it can look confusing when looking into the barrel. Poking something though the hole while looking inside will help clarify if its just the gas hole, which appears closer to the muzzle than it actually is. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pjj342 632 Posted October 13, 2012 Report Share Posted October 13, 2012 If your cutting tool was flat, you would have cut almost a 1/4 of the outside diameter of the barrel to reach the inside. If your cutting tool was round, it would have taken a bit less, but still more than you might think to reach the inside wall of the barrel. The light trick will work pretty well, just stick a flashlight up to the muzzle and see if you can see any light through your outside cut. If not, your good. Good tip lemon. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Angle King 0 Posted October 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2012 The line is going the same way as the cut? Sounds weird. If you cut it deep enough to see a line from the inside, then, well, you cut INTO the barrel. But if you cut into the barrel then you would have just cut off the whole section (if the cut goes all the way around). Try doing some basic stuff. Somehow put light into the barrel, go into the dark, close every possible hole, and see if any light comes out of cut. You can probably do a similar test by clogging it and blowing air inside. Be creative. When I got my first AK I got a tad worried when I spotted the gas hole. Of course after a couple minutes of looking at it I remembered how the thing works. If you have not messed with AKs too much it can look confusing when looking into the barrel. Poking something though the hole while looking inside will help clarify if its just the gas hole, which appears closer to the muzzle than it actually is. thanks a lot lemmon..good piece of mind i appriciate it..theres no way in hell theres light comin out i looked..the cut is like 1/32 deep around the outside of the barrel i used a micrometer to measure..and when i feel inside the barrel with like a tooth pick i can feel any burs or any roughness at all when passing over the line..maybe something from the factory..not sure never noticed it before..it was a pipe cutter with a round cuttin "wheel" type thing..could it be possible that the pressure caused the mark on the inside of the barrel..i dont see how cause i only cut 1/32 deep so i dont know..Any ways i shot it today..put about 250 rounds through it with no problems at all..just wondering if it is from cuttin the barrel could it eventually get worse..i doubt it but i trip on it so any input is appriciated.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Agent Lemon 157 Posted October 13, 2012 Report Share Posted October 13, 2012 Well I have no idea what you are seeing without looking at detailed pictures or without looking myself, but it sounds like its not a problem. The thing is that the pipe cutter cuts all the way around. If you were to cut through the barrel with it, you would just cut the whole section off, and it would fall off. If you cut into the barrel only on one side, you'd just have a half circle cut into the barrel and it would be very obvious. Know what I mean? If you somehow cut the barrel in a way that indented the inside of the barrel, then it would mean that the barrel is SUPER thin where the cut was. This doesn't really make sense to me though, because I never looked at these barrels as being made of malleable metal. If you shot it and its fine, then its not that paper thin, because it would probably rip if it was paper thin to the point of indenting the inside of the barrel. Does the "cut" extend across both lands AND groves? Because if it does, then its a dead giveaway that its not a cut, as the lands/groves are on different height levels and whatnot. The fact that you don't feel any burrs with the toothpick is also a sign that the metal surface is not compromised/penetrated, and is still in its original state. I honestly don't know what to say. When I look into a rifled AK barrel, I see all kinds of stuff. I would say shoot another 300 rounds though it, give it a good cleaning, inspect it, and if the barrel is not hanging off a tiny thread of metal, then just give it a kiss, oil it, and put it away heh. P.S. a random thought- could it have been a kind of scratch from the TAT? You threaded the barrel right? Just throwing ideas around. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Angle King 0 Posted October 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2012 Well I have no idea what you are seeing without looking at detailed pictures or without looking myself, but it sounds like its not a problem. The thing is that the pipe cutter cuts all the way around. If you were to cut through the barrel with it, you would just cut the whole section off, and it would fall off. If you cut into the barrel only on one side, you'd just have a half circle cut into the barrel and it would be very obvious. Know what I mean? If you somehow cut the barrel in a way that indented the inside of the barrel, then it would mean that the barrel is SUPER thin where the cut was. This doesn't really make sense to me though, because I never looked at these barrels as being made of malleable metal. If you shot it and its fine, then its not that paper thin, because it would probably rip if it was paper thin to the point of indenting the inside of the barrel. Does the "cut" extend across both lands AND groves? Because if it does, then its a dead giveaway that its not a cut, as the lands/groves are on different height levels and whatnot. The fact that you don't feel any burrs with the toothpick is also a sign that the metal surface is not compromised/penetrated, and is still in its original state. I honestly don't know what to say. When I look into a rifled AK barrel, I see all kinds of stuff. I would say shoot another 300 rounds though it, give it a good cleaning, inspect it, and if the barrel is not hanging off a tiny thread of metal, then just give it a kiss, oil it, and put it away heh. P.S. a random thought- could it have been a kind of scratch from the TAT? You threaded the barrel right? Just throwing ideas around. i have not threaded it yet..and yes its all the way around on the riflings and the smooth areas of the interior of the barrel..so ya i dont know but i dont think it will be an issue.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Agent Lemon 157 Posted October 14, 2012 Report Share Posted October 14, 2012 Well my logic tells me that if its a ring that goes all the way around, that its not a cut or indent. If it was cutting into it or whatever, the smooth areas would have the line while the rifling would not, due to it being raised/having more material/whatnot. No idea otherwise. Best of luck. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Angle King 0 Posted October 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2012 thanks man..i did some heavy rapid fire today without issues..i think ill lay this issue to rest..thanks for the input..so back to threadin the barrel..my tools and ak74 break will be here monday and im wonderin if theres n e thing i shouldknow before threadin it..i know to loosin the dye all the way for the first pass..will i need tightin the dye and make a second pass? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Agent Lemon 157 Posted October 14, 2012 Report Share Posted October 14, 2012 will i need tightin the dye and make a second pass? I never had to. Try to screw on your attachment after the first pass, and then tighten it some if need be. Are you going to thread it for the 14x1L and then use some kind of adapter to install the 74 style? Theres plenty of threads about threading if you search for them. I suggest using the Google to search this forum, as the search feature here is not that great. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Angle King 0 Posted October 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2012 will i need tightin the dye and make a second pass? I never had to. Try to screw on your attachment after the first pass, and then tighten it some if need be. Are you going to thread it for the 14x1L and then use some kind of adapter to install the 74 style? Theres plenty of threads about threading if you search for them. I suggest using the Google to search this forum, as the search feature here is not that great. yes to 14x1 left hand thread and no to the adapter..i ordered i think the tapco ak 74 style break. the one for 21.95 at carolionashootersupply Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pjj342 632 Posted October 14, 2012 Report Share Posted October 14, 2012 After you have screwed your TAT onto your die, leaving about half of the die exposed on the bottom, then screw your brake down right on top of the die. This will make sure the TAT secure for cutting your first few threads. Getting it started is kind of a bitch, but with nice even downward pressure the die will start shaving enough off the edge to start grabbing. Once you feel it grab, back up and work on that spot. After you have gotten about 1/8-1/4 inch of the first thead cut, the hard part is over. Just be patient, go about an 8th of turn then back up, this will cut off the chips the dies teeth are peeling off. Youll hear the 'crunch chrunch' sound of the chips breaking. Oh yea, use alot of oil. If you think its getting dry, dump some more on, it cant hurt. After you have gotten 3 or 4 threads cut, take off the TAT and use only the die, it has done its job getting your first few threads square with the muzzle and that is enough to keep the rest of your threads straight. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Angle King 0 Posted October 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2012 went shooting again today lemon...200 more rounds and no problems..some how i think the line on the inside of the barrel is some sort if pressure mark or somethin but it has not affected the accuracy or anything..i wonder if it will become a problem eventually..looked at my buddies saiga and he does not have the same mark on the inside of the barrel so its probobly not from the factory...im still kinda boggled by this.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Agent Lemon 157 Posted October 14, 2012 Report Share Posted October 14, 2012 (edited) Yeah, it is kinda weird. I have no clue. I'm no expert heh. But if it works good, and the ring didn't get larger or get any other changes, then it should not be a problem. Of course, only time will tell. As for the threading, I always attach a buttstock and pistol grip on the rifle, then with the butt between my boots and the grip against my leg I start threading. Keeps it from twisting, and with the butt against the ground it allows me to put lots of pressure on it to start the threading. p.s. have you ever had any squibs in this gun? have you been shooting straight lead bullets? almost sounds like a ringed barrel. Edited October 14, 2012 by Agent Lemon Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Angle King 0 Posted October 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 Yeah, it is kinda weird. I have no clue. I'm no expert heh. But if it works good, and the ring didn't get larger or get any other changes, then it should not be a problem. Of course, only time will tell. As for the threading, I always attach a buttstock and pistol grip on the rifle, then with the butt between my boots and the grip against my leg I start threading. Keeps it from twisting, and with the butt against the ground it allows me to put lots of pressure on it to start the threading. p.s. have you ever had any squibs in this gun? have you been shooting straight lead bullets? almost sounds like a ringed barrel. first of all wuts a ringed barrel..and if squibs are problems i have never had n e problems at all..i have about 5500 rounds through it with out any issues..every bullet put down the barrel has been tulammo and it has worked great.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Angle King 0 Posted October 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 so i did some research and it sounds like i did cromip the inside of the barrel a little bit..or thats what coulda happened if i woulda kept going..i was using a pipe cutter with a dull wheel and i was also probobly going to fast and tight the device too much at once..therfore it left a perfect ring like mark all the way around the interior of the barrel at the cut point..even on the riflings which boggles my mind but it is what it is...i think in my case its more of a pressure type mark because i didnt cut deep enough to make it that far..hopfuly it doesnt cause future problems Quote Link to post Share on other sites
canoecanoe 63 Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 Wow. It is hard to beleive that this could have caused a crimp type ring all the way through the tough barrel steel and leave a ridge/ring in the bore. Not necessarily doubting you since you can see it and I can't, it just doesn't seem possible. Would you mind sharing your research that lead youn to this conclusion? I would be very interested in it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Angle King 0 Posted October 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 im pretty sure i lucked out and stopped just in time..its the only thing that i think could of caused the wierd mark..the pipe cutter i think..i think if i would have went n e further there woulda been a slight bulge and wouldnt shoot properly (accuracy would be affected i think)..500 rounds and no issues and many of those rounds were pretty close to automatic fire so i should be good.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pjj342 632 Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 (edited) im pretty sure i lucked out and stopped just in time..its the only thing that i think could of caused the wierd mark..the pipe cutter i think..i think if i would have went n e further there woulda been a slight bulge and wouldnt shoot properly (accuracy would be affected i think)..500 rounds and no issues and many of those rounds were pretty close to automatic fire so i should be good.. Have you done any bench rest shooting at 50 or 100yds?? Now that the rifle seems fine after some decent shooting, find out what kind of groups you get on paper, so you can really know if its fucked up or not. Edited October 15, 2012 by Boomsick42 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Angle King 0 Posted October 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 ya at 50 yrds...same groups as before... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Agent Lemon 157 Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 A ringed barrel is like when you have a squib or another barrel obstruction (like lead fouling) that makes the next (fmj) round increase pressure, bulging the barrel. This makes a ring. Anyway, seeing as I have a spare front section of a Saiga barrel (dont ask), I think I might take a pipe cutter to it later and see what happens. I will update with the results sometime today maybe. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Agent Lemon 157 Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 I am sorry to announce that I was able to replicate such a ring twice with the use of a pipe cutter. I took the front section of the barrel, stuck a pipe cutter like half an inch behind the muzzle, tightened the pipe cutter as much as I could, and started turning with no remorse. Then when I looked inside, I was amazed to see a faint, yet perfect and thin ring going all the way around. I thought I must be seeing things, since this section of barrel has been laying around in a carpeted room, and had all kinds of dust and lint inside of it. I ran a dry patch through the barrel to clean it up, and the faint line disappeared. But then I noticed a less detailed ring, that looked like a small wave/crimp/whatever. I did another pass on the barrel a bit further back, and it added a second wave... They were easier to spot when I blew into the barrel, causing fog/condensation, which made it a bit easier to spot. I think if this barrel wasn't unfired, that the rings would show up more. Checking my conversions right now. I also noticed that the son of a bitch TAT that I had used caused little marks on the rifling from when I threaded the barrels. FOR FUTURE REFERENCE: When using a pipe cutter to remove FSB shroud, do NOT tighten the hell out of the pipe cutter. Take it easy, and as soon as you hear a faint cracking sound, that is when you have cut through the shroud. Where to go from here? Not sure. If it works fine, I think you could live with it. If it makes you feel any better, I have made mistakes while working on these too. Attached picture shows how deep I cut into the barrel. Don't really have time to do any measurements right now Quote Link to post Share on other sites
canoecanoe 63 Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 (edited) Thanks for the research, Agent Lemon. I wouldn't have beleived that this could happen. Your findings should be documented and stickied as a warning to take extreme care when using a pipe cutter, as this seems to be the preferred method for cutting the shroud. Edited October 15, 2012 by canoecanoe Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pjj342 632 Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 (edited) ya at 50 yrds...same groups as before... Well thats a good thing. If the ring isnt squeezing the bullet down to a smaller size, you will have the same accuracy. If it was making the bullet smaller as it passed through, I think it would wreck the shit out of your groups. I am sorry to announce that I was able to replicate such a ring twice with the use of a pipe cutter. I didnt really think that could be done. Im truly surprised a cold hammer forged barrel can deform like that, from outside to inside, without being less than 1/8" from the inside wall. Edited October 15, 2012 by Boomsick42 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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