need ideas on "service" pistol

[jon elia 0]

i have to get a new handgun(not really new but new to me) and i cant carry the 45. the boss wont let us. i went looking around for something in maybe .40 cal but none of the guns looked or felt good to me. i like the 1911 style pistol more than the "glock" types but i might have to go with something plastic. any pics suggestions i got a new job a while back and they are about to put me on the armored trucks.

 

i'm thinking maybe a compact 1911 in .40s&w

but i'm open to sugjestions.

thanks

jon

[HAWK 0]

The choicess are endless with most 1911 manufactures offering at least one version in a 40S&W.

since you may have to use it to save your life, dont buy something cheap. Check www.gun-tests.com for some honest evaluations and recamendations and the members here can give you some advice as well.

 

Ballistics on the 40S&W are close to the 45ACPand they seem to be a proven round but I prefer the 10mm Auto. The coices are a bit more limited for this round but you can find a few 1911 type hand guns chambered for it. ALL WAYS CARRY ENOUGH GUN !!!

 

What ever you buy practice extensively with it as shooting is a perishable skill.

 

Good Luck

[okie shooter 0]

Saw a nice .357sig the other day, makes me think about that as another pistol to get, many folks frown on the maker though it was a Taurus, boy the prices were right on them though.

[Wakal 10]

Try the Para P16 LDA. A .40 widebody 1911 type with a double action trigger.

 

 

 

Alex

[dinzag 31]

I love my .40 XD Service! Can't go wrong with the lifetime warranty.

Sure it's made in Croatia, but it's backed by Springfield.

[jon elia 0]

one of the guys at work has an xd in 9 and he says he didn't realize .40 was ok by the boss or he'd have gotten it. i looked at the xd's and the glocks(usualy dont like but the .40 s&w was nice looking, but i dont like the way they feel to me) keep with the ideas, but i think i might try and talk to the boss and see if the springfield champ will be oked by him, since i do have to keep it there for my life i want the .45, i know the 40 is good, it might have to do, but i'll see if i cant get any leway on the 45...

 

does anyone have anything to say about the glock i think it was a 23

[Rusty 0]

If you want to stay true to JMB, you could always look up a Hi-Power or clone.

 

edit: And from what I understand, if you want a Springfield XD, grab the 40. You can always get aftermarket barrels for 357SIG and 9mm later.

Edited November 3, 2005 by Rusty

[ditchdigger 0]

How does your boss feel about the 10mm round mentioned earlier? If it's allowed then a Glock 20 is what I would carry.

[dinzag 31]

How does your boss feel about the 10mm round mentioned earlier? If it's allowed then a Glock 20 is what I would carry.

+10 on that!! It's a .40....that dumps a freight train's worth of energy!

[AegisDei 2]

If you got the money, H&K all the way. However, they're low capacity which blows. If you want an affordable bang for the buck, high cap, and a nice gun, check the Taurus 24/7. It's in a head-to-head battle with the H&K P2000sk and the EAA Witness to be the next pistol in my safe.

[ditchdigger 0]

How does your boss feel about the 10mm round mentioned earlier? If it's allowed then a Glock 20 is what I would carry.

+10 on that!! It's a .40....that dumps a freight train's worth of energy!

Love that round!!! It's a mystery to me that more major manufacturers don't offer an affordable double stack, double action auto in 10mm. (with a spare 40. s&w barrel and spring for cheaper practice)

[catswold 3]

[dinzag 31]

What about an FN five-seven? 20 rounds of what is basically a .223 short.

Ah yes, I remember an article about that being the new "assault rifle that fits in your pocket"...

http://savvysurvivor.com/fn_5.htm

[Rusty 0]

I've seen toy guns that look more realistic than that (even with the orange thing on the barrel).

 

As far as the 5.7 round... It looks like it'll make a decent SMG round, and I'm sure it'll throw lead down range out of a pistol (and that 20 round magazine means the EU cops will have to practice even less )

 

Personally, if I am forced to draw and shoot, I'd rather them fall from the force of impact after getting smacked with a couple 160+ grain less than high velocity can's-o-whoopass than have them bleed out from 20 .22 caliber holes. Shock value counts a lot, and a 230 grain hardball or 185gr hollowpoint will register on anybody's nervous system (assuming said rounds didn't destroy said person's nervous system on impact).

 

Everybody is entitled to their oppinions, but I'd rather have 8+1 rounds of 45 (I know Jon, not in the cards), or 13+ rounds of 40 than 20 rounds of 5.7x28.

Edited November 3, 2005 by Rusty

[jon elia 0]

rusty you nailed it, i want the 45 because i feel if i cant dispatch a problem with 8 rounds of some good .45 hollowpoints somethings wrong, i just dont feel comfy with the 9mm for something other than just shooting. i havn't shot a .40 or a 10mm but i'm gonna try and get ahold of one to try out. plus i'm still gonna talk to the boss about the big four five

[Rusty 0]

A glock 22 in 40 is a pretty decent weapon. The kick is a lot sharper than 45ACP in a 1911, but it's pretty controllable. I haven't shot more than 20 or 30 rounds in a practice session (friends gun, we trade ammo and gun time), and the first time I did it my wrist was pretty sore.

 

Right now, my personal dream handgun is a Browning Hi-Power in 40S&W or another 1911 in 38 Super. I'll admit that I'm a full bore disciple of the Church of Saint Browning of Handheld Lead Slinging, so I've kinda limited myself, but what the hell.

[ditchdigger 0]

[Rusty 0]

You do realize that the real armor piercing ammo (the SS190 IIRC) is not available to the general public. If I'm remembering correctly, supposedly the only stuff us normal people can buy is either the training ammo for the P90, or the ss192 hollow point stuff.

[ditchdigger 0]

I do realize that, but even if it was I couldn't afford to buy body armor to hang on targets at the local gravel pit anyway. But seriously, even though I have zero experience with the Five seveN or even a life or death gun battle for that matter(knock on wood) I think it would be well suited as a service pistol. Well, after your coworkers were done poking fun at your fruity looking toy gun that is. It ain't no beauty queen is it ?

[BattleRifleG3 16]

I like the 40 cal in my Steyr M40 pistol. I highly recommend them. Give them a good look before deciding on any other. Spring XD from everything is everything good about the Glock with lower price and superior design. I still think the Steyr is absolutely super, but that's because it fits me well. Check it out. Most folks who rave over Glocks and Spring XDs have never held or fired a Steyr. Those with HKs say that they're on a par (with the steyrs costing far less), with Sigs being a small step up for about twice the price.

[catswold 3]

I've seen toy guns that look more realistic than that (even with the orange thing on the barrel).

 

As far as the 5.7 round... It looks like it'll make a decent SMG round, and I'm sure it'll throw lead down range out of a pistol (and that 20 round magazine means the EU cops will have to practice even less )

 

Personally, if I am forced to draw and shoot, I'd rather them fall from the force of impact after getting smacked with a couple 160+ grain less than high velocity can's-o-whoopass than have them bleed out from 20 .22 caliber holes. Shock value counts a lot, and a 230 grain hardball or 185gr hollowpoint will register on anybody's nervous system (assuming said rounds didn't destroy said person's nervous system on impact).

 

Everybody is entitled to their oppinions, but I'd rather have 8+1 rounds of 45 (I know Jon, not in the cards), or 13+ rounds of 40 than 20 rounds of 5.7x28.

 

That's not always the case. While I agree that .45 is a better bloodletter in a close in struggle, which most firefights are, I'd go for one hand controlability. In that situation, 20 rds of 5.7 will go out a whole lot faster and more accurately than those .45 or 10mm. rds. Plus in the event that you are confronted with a perp with body armor the five-seven offers penetration which the others don't.

 

Besides think of how the Brady bunch will react to an officer carrying this "evil" weapon.

[AegisDei 2]

"A pistol is a defensive weapon that should only be used to fight your way back to a rifle (or S12)."

 

Any functioning gun I think is about equally effective for that purpose. If I'm spewing 160gr hollowpoints that Rusty was talking about, I don't care if body armor is involved: you'd be crazy not to dive for cover. I'd rather get hit by Tyson than take a bullet with body armor. So fast follow-up shots really shouldn't matter that much. By the time 9 rounds of .45 are spent, I'll either have fled the scene, reloaded, or reached my AR (or S12) in which case you're really boned: I don't miss with a rifle.

 

However, there are a few situations where I would whole-heartedly support high-capacity, namely times when you can't flee the scene, have to face multiple targets, or can't have a real backup weapon (preferably a rifle). I would assume a LEO or an armored car driver can't spray 9 rounds and run if the going gets tough, so I would think that the longer you can keep someone hiding behind some sort of cover the better. And 20rnds per reload would definately have most people pinned down for a while.

 

However, the lighter/faster rounds probably will have greater over-penetration, especially if they're body-piercing. I don't care if I can hit a plate at 200 yrds 25% of the time, a pistol will never be THAT accurate and I'd be scared I'd hit a civilian. Especially if I'm spraying 20rounds at a time. The damage done by a stray shot might be less with a 5.7mm bullet, but there's a greater change of hitting someone and thus liability increases. Along the same lines, getting hit by a 5.7 might not fully discourage a determined person.

 

So for me I'd consider the situation I'm going to be. If I'm around a bunch of people and have to worry about over-penetration or stray shots, I'd want something big and slow. If I'm driving through the country, I'd want to be able to lay down a line of lead that will kill any cow, tree, or perp within a 500yrd radius. I think the bottom line is, if someone keeps coming to the point where you need >9rnds, you had better have God on your side or an assault rifle beside you.

[HAWK 0]

I love my GLOCK M20, recoil is close to the 1911 type pistols. It fires EVERY TIME I pull the trigger, parts are easy to get for up grades, Simple to work on and field strip. 17 + 1 in the chamber with larger clips available ( I have 1 that holds 29 ). Ballistics are super. Winchester 175gr silver tip HP has about 650 FPE from a 5" brl.

It points easy and is plenty acurrate for head shots out to 20 - 25 yds. And it can be carried loaded with no worries of AD.

 

Also the 5.7 sounds great against body armor but you will be responsible for every round you fire and over penatration is a liabillity.

Even with a vest the 10mm Auto will hit like a sledge hammer.

 

Also a new glock is cheaper than a lot of 1911's, I bought mine new for $650 with tax.

Just my 2 cents.

Edited November 4, 2005 by HAWK

[Rusty 0]

That's the basic idea, if somebody is coming at me I want to knock them over with a 2x4, not repeatedly poke them with a pointy stick. A large caliber hardball or HP at a moderate to high velocity is going to register, even with body armor.

 

Besides, if they are armored up, you can always dump a couple of rounds into the chest area to shake 'em up, then shoot 'em in the pelvic area. It's hard to armor that part of the body, and it's hard to walk with a large caliber round rattling around in there.

[Wolverine 10,360]

A glock 22 in 40 is a pretty decent weapon. The kick is a lot sharper than 45ACP in a 1911, but it's pretty controllable. I haven't shot more than 20 or 30 rounds in a practice session (friends gun, we trade ammo and gun time), and the first time I did it my wrist was pretty sore.

 

Right now, my personal dream handgun is a Browning Hi-Power in 40S&W or another 1911 in 38 Super. I'll admit that I'm a full bore disciple of the Church of Saint Browning of Handheld Lead Slinging, so I've kinda limited myself, but what the hell.

 

 

Jeff Cooper is right there with you. "Hell, I was there". As I recall he became a believer in the .45 in the Phillipines. The unaccurized .45 was not known for its accuracy then but you could drop it in the mud, kick it, pick it up and kill the enemy at close quarters when the situation dictated. Reliability and stopping power is the name of the game. You shoot a man with a 38 or 9mm and he is likely to get up and shoot you. You shoot a man with a .45 and he ain't gonna get up.

 

I'm a lefty and still have a "stock" Colt Commander that I bought 20+ years ago. I won't sell or trade it...... period. Someday, maybe.....I'll have an ambi safety installed. But somehow I have made it work lo these many years.

 

Research STOPPING POWER when selecting your service pistol. Your life depends on it.

 

PS....I also have a superb Browning 9mm Hi-power I bought 20-25 years ago. I love the feel and firepower but I would not bet my life on the round.

 

W.

[jon elia 0]

i think i pretty much have it....

 

if i cant get him to go for the .45, i'll go for a glock in 40s&w. i dont really like the glocks too too much, not a glocker i guess but i figure if i cant have what i really trust i need to have something i can trust to go bang and have more ammo

 

yalls replys are great but get the five seven thing off the list, i'm in college work full time....damn got called into work finish this post later

[Rusty 0]

Wolverine:

Link I'm in love with this thing (in 40S&W). Now I just need ~$800 to drop on my Saint Browning of Blessed Whoopass addiction I know it isn't 45ACP (or even JMB's original design), but I'm betting 40S&W in a steel framed gun would be much tamer and still have quite a bit of punch to it.

[catswold 3]

I am astounded at the belief around here in the one shot stop.

 

1. most gun fights for cops and the like occur at distances of 3-5 feet.

2. most include some physical contact-shoving, grabbing and the like

3. too many times perps have walked away, or been able to continue fighting after absorbing 5-6 rounds of pistol cartridges .45 down to .38. Even a .44mag is no guarantee.

 

The best gun is one that can be used at very close quarters with one hand accurately. If you preactice enough, a .45 can't be beat, but if your control and hand strength isn't up to snuff, a smaller lighter caliber with lots of rounds might be the ticket.

 

Wolverine:

Link I'm in love with this thing (in 40S&W). Now I just need ~$800 to drop on my Saint Browning of Blessed Whoopass addiction I know it isn't 45ACP (or even JMB's original design), but I'm betting 40S&W in a steel framed gun would be much tamer and still have quite a bit of punch to it.

 

 

Your headed in the right direction. The .40 is now the most commonly used caliber by police now. Good thump, lower recoil, higher capacity.

[jon elia 0]

i'm young, 21 about 6'3'' and 200 pounds i can handle the recoil. i guess its either glock in 40 for the capacity if i cant have the 45, and yeah one stop shot if i have to shoot someone i'll prolly shoot more than once thanks for the ideas guys...and i might run the 10mm by him too

[catswold 3]

i'm young, 21 about 6'3'' and 200 pounds i can handle the recoil. i guess its either glock in 40 for the capacity if i cant have the 45, and yeah one stop shot if i have to shoot someone i'll prolly shoot more than once thanks for the ideas guys...and i might run the 10mm by him too

 

 

Sad truth is, I like 'em all...OK not so sad. Wish I could afford them all. Especially the Wilson Tactical Elite, I just don't have the $3000 to spend on it.

Ain't She Bootiful!!