November Grey 0 Posted February 9, 2013 Report Share Posted February 9, 2013 Hello, First post on the forum, but I have been reading it for awhile, and gotta say you guys are like Saiga jedi's, I've been doing my best to soak up the knowledge before I start making mods to my saiga. So I've been going back and forth on the idea of adding a magwell, and as much as I love shooting drums, I'm leaning towards something that can be used practically and efficiently. I know JT engineering is working on one that works with drums, also I know about the russian drums and the factory magwell option, but I have to say the one that really has me interested is R&R's design. I love AK's but I'm no purist so the whole AR style is fine by me. Still I haven't read any real in depth reviews of these, as to functionality. They seem to have positive feedback, but I'd like some actual owners to share their opinions. I'm interested in mag fitment. Are they very loose or do they fit more akin to that of an AR? Will mag movement, or resting the gun on the mag while shooting cause any jamming issues? What about build quality? I love the mag release design but in pictures it looks kind of flimsy, curious to how well it holds up. Any issues with mags falling out accidentally? Overall reliability? I'm not planning on doing any race competitions, It would be a home defense weapon and range toy. I just like the ability to slap in mags with speed and without the bulk of large drums in the theoretical situation I'm running around defending my property from the invading (insert something scary here) threat. Worse case scenario I'll buy an MKA 1919 and keep the drum on the Saiga . Thanks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lewie212 37 Posted February 9, 2013 Report Share Posted February 9, 2013 Vepr12s have magwell and a last round bolt hold open, as do some versions of the saiga. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Big John! 2,062 Posted February 9, 2013 Report Share Posted February 9, 2013 (edited) Vepr12s have magwell and a last round bolt hold open, as do some versions of the saiga. I'm sure that helped the OP with his question… Not Edited February 9, 2013 by Big John! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lewie212 37 Posted February 9, 2013 Report Share Posted February 9, 2013 Haha I was just letting him know other options before purchasing an mk1919. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sweetcostarica 18 Posted February 9, 2013 Report Share Posted February 9, 2013 .... So I've been going back and forth on the idea of adding a magwell, and as much as I love shooting drums, I'm leaning towards something that can be used practically and efficiently. I know JT engineering is working on one that works with drums, also I know about the russian drums and the factory magwell option, but I have to say the one that really has me interested is R&R's design. I love AK's but I'm no purist so the whole AR style is fine by me... I'm interested in mag fitment. Are they very loose or do they fit more akin to that of an AR? Will mag movement, or resting the gun on the mag while shooting cause any jamming issues? What about build quality? I love the mag release design but in pictures it looks kind of flimsy, curious to how well it holds up. Any issues with mags falling out accidentally? Overall reliability?.....MKA 1919 and keep the drum on the Saiga . Thanks. Welcome to this forum . You will learn a lot and have most of your questions answer in the pinned topic. So check that out too. I started my rifle collection with a Rock River Arm's M4 style AR-15 but didn't like the way it shot or the disassemblely/reassembly procedures. When I switched to the AK platform I was in love; it shot easier and was totally simple to take apart and put back together. Also, I have never had a jam in one (note: I have not shot my Saiga 12 (S12) with birdshot yet. As far as the magwell on the S12, the regular factory rock & lock system works well for me. With a little practice you too can reload a S12 really fast. I also can load a full magazine on a closed bolt easily with 2 3/4 shells. Not sure why so many S12 owners say that they can't or have a hard time doing it. I have a converted Saiga but the magwell is all standard. If you want a slightly faster/smoother magazine loading system you can add an IZ433 mag well. A lot of members on this forum like these. But personally I don't see the need unless it is for military/police work were they often get into situations that require the quickest reloads. U.S. Importer RAAC's Akdal MKA 1919 is a semi-auto, 12-gauge shotgun seems like a good one too. But I have seen it choke on low powered bird shot too and again I am not found of the AR platform. But that's just me. Happy hunting November Grey. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sunnybean 939 Posted February 9, 2013 Report Share Posted February 9, 2013 I have never handled a R&R gun but have dealt with Robert before. He has been excellent to work with. Over the phone, and through emails, he is always patient and takes whatever time is needed to answer all your questions. The work he performed on my butchered gun looks great. His turn around time was fantastic. Due to that, he will be getting more of my hard earned money in the future. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
November Grey 0 Posted February 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 Thanks guys. I'd have to agree and say I prefer the AK platform, rock solid. Still it has room for improvement, and the magwell option is one of them. I'm mulling all possibilities, and I might even just leave it be, but I'd still like to get more info about the R&R magwell and it's reliability and mag fitment before I make any decisions. Though after staring at sunnybean's avatar, I feel like saying to hell with the magwell and blowing the money (and my load) at the nearest strip club. lol. Either way it'll be quick... haha Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kaleowallace 0 Posted February 11, 2013 Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 Thanks guys. I'd have to agree and say I prefer the AK platform, rock solid. Still it has room for improvement, and the magwell option is one of them. I'm mulling all possibilities, and I might even just leave it be, but I'd still like to get more info about the R&R magwell and it's reliability and mag fitment before I make any decisions. Though after staring at sunnybean's avatar, I feel like saying to hell with the magwell and blowing the money (and my load) at the nearest strip club. lol. Either way it'll be quick... haha You bring the ones, I'll bring my sweatpants. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MLM0358 107 Posted February 11, 2013 Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 I have 3 guns with R and R magwells. I like the straight mag insertion, easy mag insertion on a closed bolt, and the lever type mag release. Here is one of them shown with coupled mags, and an extra large mouth on the magwell (machined by me and added). At first I thought the screws holding the magwell on would eventually strip out -- there's just not much to thread into the recevier, but they have held up fine -- over 3,000 rounds through one of them. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Terminator03 18 Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 Where is the best/cheapest place to buy one of these magwell setups, and do you have to modify the mags to work with them? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MLM0358 107 Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 The mags do need to be modified since they are straight insertion and not rock and lock. You can buy them already modified, or do it yourself. Best to buy one for a sample though before you try to modify one yourself. I've bought them from both R and R targets and Speed Shooters International. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
November Grey 0 Posted February 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 Malcolm, how does the lever release fair over an extended period of time? My only real concern was the quality of the release and any loose mag issues that might cause feed problems or mags to fall out. The fact that you have 3 tells me you think highly of the product, so unless there's anything else I'm pretty sure I'm going to pick one up in a couple of weeks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Terminator03 18 Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 The mags do need to be modified since they are straight insertion and not rock and lock. You can buy them already modified, or do it yourself. Best to buy one for a sample though before you try to modify one yourself. I've bought them from both R and R targets and Speed Shooters International. Thanks, I will check into those. I figured that the "normal" retention areas would need to be shaved, but how does the magwell retain them? I have never seen a closeup pic showing the mechanism, or the matching feature on the mags. If there is a thread showing this stuff that someone could direct me to, that would be greatly appreciated! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
buckshotbob 2 Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 Which of these magwells work well with the MDARMS and promag 20 round drum? Where can I buy them at? Thanks! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lewie212 37 Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 Which of these magwells work well with the MDARMS and promag 20 round drum? Where can I buy them at? Thanks! None of them to my knowledge. Jt Engineering has one but I am not sure if it is on the market. There is a video in his sub forum. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MLM0358 107 Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 Attached are close up pictures of the magwell and the mag. The mag is retained in a very typical mag retention method with male part of latch into female notch in the mag. The lever is steel and is very solid. Mag retention is secure and I've never had a mag drop out. As discussed, mag insertion is straight and can be easily done on a closed bolt. You can see that the mags have to be modified- rock and lock lugs must be sanded off and the ridges on the side of the mag also sanded down. Notch must be cut in the mag for the mag latch. If you will note, I'm left handed and this is a left side mag release. You will note that this gun also has an AR style safety. If you're curious, the screw behind the trigger is an overtravel limiter, the magwell has been modified with a large mouth opening. The "ear" in the upper left of the picture is a top round retainer when using coupled mags. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mikeNM 8 Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 I shoot with a fellow competitor who has the R&R magwell set up. I have the JTE setup... I'd do the R&R setup, simply for this reason... eventually the rear lip on the SGM mags is going to wear off, meaning the mag will be worthless. You can see that the R&R locks into the side of the mag, does not use the rear lip at all. If a worn mag isn't a problem ?, the JTE or similar unit is a improvement over the "rock & lockers" in MOST people's normal use. Lot's of competitors use the "rock & lock" with great sucess and too each their own... I have the extended mag release which is helpful... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
November Grey 0 Posted February 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2013 @ Malcolm I dig your setup. I'll probably go with an AR style safety as well. I really like the enlarged mouth of the magwell, how did you make it if you don't mind me asking? @mikeAZ Yea I came to the same conclusion with the SGM mags. There's a good reason the best ak mags have typically been made with metal, I have no problem with rock n lock per se, i own a draco ak, which I use the old fashion way. To me it's just a matter of efficiency, and since I'm already redoing things might as well redo everything! (I use that excuse on everything, lol). At this point it's pretty much a done deal, just need to wait for them to be in stock again, and barring anyone telling me any horror stories, I'll be putting a few more notches in my credit bill this month. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Terminator03 18 Posted February 15, 2013 Report Share Posted February 15, 2013 Attached are close up pictures of the magwell and the mag. The mag is retained in a very typical mag retention method with male part of latch into female notch in the mag. The lever is steel and is very solid. Mag retention is secure and I've never had a mag drop out. As discussed, mag insertion is straight and can be easily done on a closed bolt. You can see that the mags have to be modified- rock and lock lugs must be sanded off and the ridges on the side of the mag also sanded down. Notch must be cut in the mag for the mag latch. If you will note, I'm left handed and this is a left side mag release. You will note that this gun also has an AR style safety. If you're curious, the screw behind the trigger is an overtravel limiter, the magwell has been modified with a large mouth opening. The "ear" in the upper left of the picture is a top round retainer when using coupled mags. Thanks for posting those pics, Malcolm, that is a big help to me in visualizing how this system works. This is definitely on my "to do" list. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MLM0358 107 Posted February 15, 2013 Report Share Posted February 15, 2013 The magwell mouth was machined out of aluminum. I started with a block of aluminum and first milled out a shelf that fit the bottom of the magwell, and drilled and tapped and fabricated the clamps. Then used various cutters to shape the inside and outside. It is clamped onto the magwell by two strips on either side. It's helpful in competition - especially while relaoding when running -- get the mag anywhere near close and it's going in. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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