FTF - Help

[Saigamus Prime 2]

Hello guys,

 

I know there are a lot of FAQ's here and I have read most of them. I am having the crappiest issue where the S12 will load the next round, but will not fire. I've tried the cycling test and everything functions well - no hang ups. I've tried different mags, different drums, etc. It will fire one or two rounds and then not fire the third. After I eject the round, I can then fire the next two or three. This round that I eject is not fired, so doesn't quite fall under the FTE category. This happens with slugs and regular high brass. I have not done the low brass spring kit yet.

 

To get it started, I have done the 922r conversion, polished the bolt (found instructions here), verified that I have all 4 ports and can stick the drill bit through them without an issue. I have a different muzzle brake on the end, but no barrel shortening. It's the tromix min-monster brake. I do have a recoil reducing butt stock, but I had it before and everything worked. It was the first thing I changed before the full conversion. Trigger group and everything came from CSS and I followed the youtube videos to the second. Just weird that it worked before.

 

Does anyone else have any idea of what else I can check? I just ordered the low brass kit (mainly so that I could get the new puck). Maybe the gas is escaping after so many rounds. This thing used to run like a sewing machine, now it's just frustrating. I was going to turn it into the shop, but I feel that there might be one little tidbit that i'm missing. I'm looking at replacing the guide rod and gas piston also to see if this might solve the issue, but if it's something simple I'd rather not spend the money.

 

The picture below is pre- conversion and the trigger group is a little more forward. Everything else is the same.

Edited April 2, 2013 by Saigamus Prime

[dubya 198]

How much of your hammer did you" polish"? Are you using a recoil buffer?

[TYBOY 33]

1. Take off muzzle brake, install factory thread protector.
2. Take off recoil reducing stock, install non-recoil reducing stock.
3. Remove Tri-rail, install factory forearm.
4. Reprofile hammer (see pics and how to´s in forum).

Do this and you should have a good post conversion platform to work from.

 

 

Fordguy

[Saigamus Prime 2]

How much of your hammer did you" polish"? Are you using a recoil buffer?

I didn't polish much, just made it "shiny" like the video showed. Just buffed off a little coating. Someone last night suggested that I use a marker to paint the hammer and then see where it's contacting the pin. It is contacting the firing pin spring, but I'm not getting a full circle like they said I should in the ink. Just getting the rectangle shape from the back of the pin. I'm going to put the original hammer back on and see if that changes the contact point. Just all weird that I've ran it in it's current configuration - butt stock and all w/o an issue until recently.

[Saigamus Prime 2]

1. Take off muzzle brake, install factory thread protector.
2. Take off recoil reducing stock, install non-recoil reducing stock.
3. Remove Tri-rail, install factory forearm.
4. Reprofile hammer (see pics and how to´s in forum).

Do this and you should have a good post conversion platform to work from.

 

 

Fordguy

I will try some of this - going to put the original hammer back. As I explained before, everything worked fine after the conversion and then just stopped. I was originally concerned about the reduce recoil stock, because of what I read here. But I keep it tight in the shoulder and it's been working for about 8 months with the stock. I've ran drum after drum even "hollywooding it" and never had a failure like this. Talk about fun. I will try the things suggested after taking a look at the hammer. It locks back, but will not come forward after about 3 rounds. Trigger never resets until I use the charging handle.

[Bigchris 31]

Have you checked to make sure the hammer spring is not slipping off the disconnector? I could be wrong but i believe this would cause the hammer not to reset after firing if it is slipping off the disconnector. If it is you can put a slight outward bend in the spring leg and it should keep it in place.

Im sure someone will correct me if i have given the wrong advice here.

[Saigamus Prime 2]

Have you checked to make sure the hammer spring is not slipping off the disconnector? I could be wrong but i believe this would cause the hammer not to reset after firing if it is slipping off the disconnector. If it is you can put a slight outward bend in the spring leg and it should keep it in place.

Im sure someone will correct me if i have given the wrong advice here.

Never thought of this, but I'll check.

[Saigamus Prime 2]

I have attached images of the trigger assembly. Looking at the pictures online here I might need to reprofile the hammer and try again. It doesn't appear to be making full contact. I even used a marker to paint the hammer black to see where it was making contact and apparently it's barely touching. Enough to depress the firing pin for a few shots I guess.

[Bvamp 604]

cock the hammer, retake pics face down into the cocked action.....ok, you added another pic since i posted, lets take a look...its wrong

Edited April 2, 2013 by Ben Vampatella

[Saigamus Prime 2]

upload of old hammer.

[Bvamp 604]

and describe the differences in the hammer face, and the size of it, hence less thickness of the hammer.....

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Sir your hammer is binding on the ejector plate from what it looks like. If that fourth to last pic is with the hammer all the way forward on the bolt, there is no way it has clean rotation.

 

Also I can see that whoever worked on that hammer did not take the hammer axis width down enough. See it binding against the sear? Lock the hammer spring legs up behind the head like a hot blonde and then try to rotate the hammer.

 

That also looks like a rifle or .410 hammer that came in your weapon. They have that approx 1/2" strip milled from the left side to make sure they clear the rail.

 

If you have a caliper or access to one, I'd like to know what the thickness of the hammer is from spine to face, at it's thickest part front to back. It looks to me like plenty, but with that funky profile there is really no telling what somebody did. The more I look at it I think what happened is someone ground the face of the hammer down flat, in a plateau, shape with the forward and rear 'ramps' for lack of a better word... and took so much off the face it no longer fully deperesses the striker.

 

JMHO.. KInd of hard to tell from the photos.

[Saigamus Prime 2]

Sir your hammer is binding on the ejector plate from what it looks like. If that forth to last pic is with the hammer all the way forward on the bolt, there is no way it has clean rotation.

 

Also I can see that whoever worked on that hammer did not take the hammer axis width down enough. See it binding against the sear? Lock the hammer spring legs up behind the head like a hot blonde and then try to rotate the hammer.

 

That also looks like a rifle or .410 hammer that came in your weapon. They have that approx 1/2" strip milled from the left side to make sure they clear the rail.

 

If you have a caliper or access to one, I'd like to know what the thickness of the hammer is from spine to face, at it's thickest part front to back. It looks to me like plenty, but with that funky profile there is really no telling what somebody did. The more I look at it I think what happened is someone ground the face of the hammer down flat, in a plateau, shape with the forward and rear 'ramps' for lack of a better word... and took so much off the face it no longer fully deperesses the striker.

 

JMHO.. KInd of hard to tell from the photos.

Thanks for the response. I didn't work on the hammer. I did a straight conversion with the 922r kit from CSS - hammer, spring, etc came in one package. It fired before without me doing anything with it. I have put the original hammer back in and it has just about the same amount of contact as that G2 did. I will have to take a look at the ejector plate. I haven't had time to get it test fired since I put the old hammer back in there. I should be able to fire it tomorrow to test. Thanks

[dubya 198]

Have you checked to make sure the hammer spring is not slipping off the disconnector? I could be wrong but i believe this would cause the hammer not to reset after firing if it is slipping off the disconnector. If it is you can put a slight outward bend in the spring leg and it should keep it in place.

Im sure someone will correct me if i have given the wrong advice here.

 

That would cause the trigger not to reset, not the hammer. I had that issue with my first 7.62 Saiga but like you said, I just bent the spring leg a bit and reassembled.

[jdpete 6]

Cobra,

 

You asked: "If you have a caliper or access to one, I'd like to know what the thickness of the hammer is from spine to face, at it's thickest part front to back." What thickness range do you shoot for when profiling? Two original hammers from two different guns I measured were both .56.

[Mullet Man 2,114]

Tweak that JTE spring, (look in JTE's section on this site for instructions) or re-install the OE main spring.

[Saigamus Prime 2]

I know's its been a while since I posted here and I'm not sure if anyone is still watching, but the Saiga is functioning fine now.

 

I was in the process of moving -twice and had to turn it in to a gunsmith to work on it.

 

Before I did that, I put the original spring and hammer group back in - still did the same thing.

 

I did a myriad of things before I gave up.

 

The gun smith who came highly recommended call my S12 and I quote" the near death of me" because of how long it took him to figure out the problem.

 

Apparently the hammer was making contact with the pin - but getting enough resistance so it would not lock back into place. I originally shaved down the CSS hammer I got as recommended here, but got the same result.

 

The problem was just something weird with the hammer slowing down enough not to reset. The stock hammer also had to be shaved. One of the pins would not stay in so it had to be modified to stay in.. The trigger group pin. so it was causing sort of a "twist" just enough to slow the hammer down after the next round was loaded into the battery.

 

All I know was the gunsmith was like - i've never seen this and this took some figuring. A few times to the range where he thought the problem was resolved and it wasn't but I'm glad it up and running now.

 

I fired a few drums and mags and it runs like a sewing machine. The drums on the other hand - lets just say i'll stick with the mags for now.

 

Thanks guys for all the help and advice. I might be picking up another soon to get started on a SBR.