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RSA in a SUPER


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#1 Dracozny

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 08:01 PM

well I was already expecting to have to modify it despite the fact that the .308 Vepr and Super Vepr were reported to have from appearances nearly identical FCGs. the .308 VEPR RSA FCG is not a simple drop-in. 

 

I do not thing I will need to mess with the hooks at all other than some minor polish work, the trigger hook and the hammer engagement have already been polished by RSA, the Disconnector and the top of the Hammer have not been polished, polishing those two spots may be a pointless anyways. the hooks are obviously completely different from the OEM version and thats because the Hammer engagement area is smaller. one could use the OEM hammer instead if they wanted to but the engagement area would have to be modified to fit the RSA Hook. modifying the hook instead is not physically possible.

 

starting with the hammer, I think this may be the simplest of fixes. the hammer does not hit the firing pin squarely like the OEM. As a result I will need to shave the pointed area that is making the contact a bit flat

2013-06-10%2017.34.18.jpg

 

next is the meat and potatoes of the whole thing and boy we have some work to do. the trigger itself is a completely different shape, while it allows for a larger finger to rest comfortably it does not fit the trigger guard at all and as a result you cannot even pull the trigger more than a millimeter.

 2013-06-10%2017.28.40.jpg

 

.I did take some side by side comparison shots to give a better idea of how the OEM and RSA look. OEM on the left, RSA on the right

 

2013-06-10%2017.27.49.jpg

 

OEM on top (foreground) RSA Bottom (background)

2013-06-10%2017.27.06.jpg


Edited by Dracozny, 10 June 2013 - 08:03 PM.


#2 Dracozny

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 09:03 PM

after a trip to the belt sander I think I have everything lined up just the way I want them, took a little bit of trial and error with the hammer, shave a little at a time and constantly throw it back on the rifle to see how squared up everything is. they claim these things are 100% milled, if that is the case I think they need to retool because the trigger itself is not very symmetrical for mill-work. and if that was CNC, lord help us. The 10 dollars extra they charge for Veprs, is for the guy who take a damn grinder to the hammer and does a lousy job with it. after doing the mods I needed to I grabbed the dremel and some fine sand paper and polished out the hack job he did. 

all of these shots were from before my polishing work.

2013-06-10%2018.19.28.jpg

 

2013-06-10%2018.19.59.jpg

 

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check out the hack job from RSA in the middle of that poor hammer. I'll make it pretty!

2013-06-10%2018.26.55.jpg

 

2013-06-10%2018.25.54.jpg

 

Now all that is left after the polishing is to figure out how to get these bits blued.


Edited by Dracozny, 10 June 2013 - 09:09 PM.


#3 Nailbomb

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 09:28 PM

Isn't the Red Star Arms Vepr and the saiga .308 FGC the same?

 

Mine certainly didn't look like that. I have had to modify the length for trigger guards however.

 

Thanks for documenting this, and sharing.


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#4 Dracozny

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 09:44 PM

Isn't the Red Star Arms Vepr and the saiga .308 FGC the same?

 

Mine certainly didn't look like that. 

I have no idea because on their site they list Saiga 12 and Saiga 20 models, they stated the Vepr and Galil were ten bucks more. I was under the assumption based on what I received that the hack job to the Hammer was what the 10 bucks went to.



#5 GunFun

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 08:48 PM

Interesting. The s12 model was clean and square and had been milled to shape before surface treatment. Thanks for sharing the info.



#6 Dracozny

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 11:01 PM

Verified that everything cycles by hand this evening, so far it all looks good (need to find time to live fire it), I have it set as very small 2 stage, and the trigger pull is so damn light, I need to get a force gauge and see where it is at, I would say its maybe a 1-2 lb just by feel.  



#7 GunFun

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 12:07 AM

Sounds comparable to mine on the S12. I did polish the engagement surfaces and set it for single stage.



#8 Dracozny

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 10:14 PM

dag nabbit, I was assembling the rifle and discovered a slight snafu that I will need to fix...

2013-06-18%2020.06.19-1.jpg

 

I am going to need to trace out the old trigger and modify this one to accommodate. A frustrating aspect of this, is there is a set screw on the right side that may wind up getting removed in the process. its not detrimental but its supposed to be used as a stop keeping you from pulling the trigger too far. 



#9 Dracozny

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 11:59 PM

Now for the fix...

one thing to keep in mind and I must stress, removal of too much metal will result in a superfluous safety button. It's absolutely critical to constantly mark and remark the trigger with removing only small amounts of metal at a time.

the pictures you see are just after shots of the work done. 

a key trick I used to help is to use some sort of marking compound on the inner edges of the safety button.

insert the safety.

insert the trigger and insert the retaining pin. (I use the half pin RSA sent installed in  the trigger to keep everything together until the retaining pin is inserted, reverse the process to remove the retaining pin)

it should sit smack in the middle of the safety but obviously the safety will be unable to move. you can now use a screwdriver to twist the safety against the trigger, marking both sides. make sure to hold the trigger in the depressed position before marking.

2013-06-18%2021.36.06.jpg

 

remove the trigger and use a suitable tool to remove small amounts of metal. if you are very skilled a dremel maybe no problem. if you are not I HIGHLY suggest using a series of files instead. it will take longer, but the job will look better and you are less likely to bugger it up.

 

make sure the hook allows the safety to slide somewhat easily but not when the trigger is pulled.

2013-06-18%2021.36.20.jpg

 

some pics of my handy work. remember I worried about if that retaining screw was salvageable? well just barely, you can see I started to wear into the threads. there is a good chance I may have to weld it up and retap further up in the future. but atm it seems to work.

2013-06-18%2021.39.11.jpg

 

2013-06-18%2021.38.58.jpg



#10 Dracozny

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 12:34 AM

now we have one last problem to fix, the Hammer will not engage the disconnector with the safety installed. looking at the original hammer in comparison, its clear that the RSA hammer lacks the depression where the spring applies its force, the result is the spring contacts the safety.  so make sure to remove aprox 2-3mm of material from the depression (adjust measurement as necessary.


Edited by Dracozny, 19 June 2013 - 12:46 AM.


#11 zagumennyyilya

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 05:36 PM

is this trigger really worth putting all that time and tedious work?  is it really that much smoother, like glass and has just the right amount of travel?  what are your thoughts on that?  can you explain the minute differences between the two triggers?  To me the stock trigger feels like this,  it has a smooth take-up that takes about 70 % of the trigger travel, then it hits the disconnector and the second stage begins, slightly heavier than the first stage and then the trigger breaks.  the trigger pull is fairly long  but smooth,  thats after i used the lapping compound on the surfaces and worked the trigger until it smoothed out.  before it was gritty.   Can you describe in detail how this trigger feels to you? Thanks.



#12 Dracozny

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 08:02 PM

while for the price I paid for, probably not, but again the trigger was supposedly designed for the .308 vepr, not the Super. (plus I love tinkering on these kinds of things)

the adjust-ability of it is where the price point has any value, I can make the pull as long or as short as I want, and adjust some of the weight to boot. the way I have it setup now, the pull is fairly short. and has a very clean break, there is no creek its just smooth.  as I mentioned earlier the polishing job they did was fairly good. the only thing not polished was the disconnector, but from what I can tell polishing it would have no real benefit. 


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#13 Dracozny

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 08:59 PM

One last benefit to this mod I discovered. for those of you with a super you can do this at least part way. "Bolt hold open with safety on"

A reason one might want to do this is for those ranges where they want you to carry your rifle in such a manner when transiting without a case or bag.

It's a bit tricky but anyone with a super can keep the bolt open for one reason or another by simply pulling the charging handle until you find the sweet spot where you can pull the trigger and the hammer will rest on the underside against the bolt and carrier.

2013-06-20%2018.47.05.jpg

to undo this lil trick simply pull the charging handle and the bolt will set the hammer again.

The caveat is that you can not engage the safety simultaneously, I suppose with some fiddling you could find whats causing the safety to bind and possibly remedy that.

here is mine with safety engaged and the bolt held open.

2013-06-20%2018.47.27.jpg






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