10 Round Mags To Make The Saiga 12 Popular?

[Wolverine 10,360]

Wolverine what type of stock did you use on your .410 to make it compliant?

 

TacticalResponse,

 

I used a US made black synthetic NATO length stock that I purchaed from Kvar or the no longer existent GunAccessories.com. I bought one from each Co. to do conversions. It seems a tad short to me despite the additional 1 1/4 inches over a Warsaw stock. But I plan to work my twin 11 year old boys into using it at the range anyway. They will be 12 next summer.

 

If I were to do it over again or if I decide to replace it I would/will install a Tapco collapsing AR 6 position unit on it. I have one on a converted .223 and like it alot. It is sturdy, adjustable, and a hell of a lot cheaper than the ACE rig on one of my 7.62's.

 

Wolvie

[Z1500 0]

10 Round Mags To Make The Saiga 12 Popular?

 

Absolutely it will make them popular!

 

(by "popular" I of course mean "Destructive Devices")

 

 

 

Sorry guys, McUZI isn't around so I thought I'd try my hand at annoying the crap out of people.

 

I have wondered though, why nobody has simply decided to make a 9 round mag and avoid the whole problem to begin with. heck, make it with enough clearance that end users can cut the follower to take 10 rounds if they want to risk it themselves.

 

Oh well, I currently don't have an S12, and I'll probably wait to see what develops now that I know these magazines are definitely coming out.

 

 

9rd. vs. 10rd. has nothing to do with DD. The US mindset on gun control is quite a bit different than it use to be. My honest opinion is as long as converted S-12's don't stat showing up in Rap songs/videos, it will all slide under the radar. The last round of DD rulings all came down the pike due to Handgun Control Inc.'s urgings. Do you think they have even heard of an S12?

 

Kevin

[kmoore 3]

Do our Saigas still need to be converted to use 10 rounders (sorry, I haven't been keeping up with the latest legal changes)? It seems like this would be a major deterent to people who would like do use them and thus limit the gun's overall popularity. I love my Saiga but don't use it very often and have a hard time justifing the expense of converting so I can use 10 (or 8) round mags.

 

I'm going to step off here and disagree with GOB, rusty, wolvy and TopMaul. I'm even going to disagree with myself from previous posts.

 

The current sporterized shotties are considered to have 13 domestic parts. If you add a domestic made 10 round mag, then you are good to go (you just replaced 3 parts). Of course, the same does not hold true with factory 8's, you'd need the conversion to do that.

 

Kmoore,

 

Do you mean 13 foreign parts so the US made mag makes it 10 and thus 922r compliant? That is a pretty good argument although I seem to recall a question if 13 truly was the correct number for a shottie (based on trunion??????). Besides that, from a practical and realistic standpoint I don't think anyone is going to raise the 922r issue unless you're raising hell at the range with it or use it in a crime. But I wouldn't bet ten years of my life with Bubba the homo cellmate on it.

 

DOH!

 

yeah, that makes more sense that way. It was a test to see if anyone actually reads my post :/ J/K

 

Total agreement on the 922 enforcement. Have never heard of the charges being leveled. Can only guess that they are add on charges when you are in trouble for other infractions. But the peace of mind factor is what most of us go for.

 

The 13 parts comes from the ATF letter originally posted on soupbowl. They did not consider the S12 to have a trunion. Here's the latest thread on the subject ...922 compliance thread. Up to this point I've thought against mags as compliance parts, but it hit me during this thread that the only way to get in trouble would be to ...

 

Convert to PG using the mag and one other part to get compliant (say the PG). Remember, PG saiga = 14 parts, sporter = 13 parts. Then, use a factory mag later in the shotty, or maybe just own one. Theoretically you could get in trouble. All this highly unlikely.

 

Don't want to confuse anyone. To be clear, my opinion is .. if you aren't going to convert to a PG the domestic mag should be ok to use.

 

If you are going to do a PG conversion, I'd make sure to use domestic FCG plus one more gun part (ie not a mag part) to get compliant.

 

Ok, just read the threads that followed Wolvie's that I responded to. Rusty we are using same letter. the 14 parts include a pistol grip, which of course would be added in a conversion.

 

I have the tapco collapsable on my Saiga, Like it A LOT. Best solution out there, imo. And I've seen/shouldered many. Nice that it's so affordable.

Edited December 24, 2005 by kmoore

[TacticalResponse 0]

Kmoore my S 12 was converted before 922r compliance came into effect. My S 12 conversion has only Russian and East European parts. No U.S. parts were used. So my S 12 is not in compliance. My question to you is if I use a 10 round domestic mag in it, will I have to change anything more than the PG and the FCG to make it compliant?

Edited December 26, 2005 by TacticalResponse

[Bvamp 604]

oh, the government and antigunners HAVE DEFINATELY heard of the saiga.

 

we nearly had a catostrophic media blast when that vang guy blew away the rednecks up in the woods with his saiga (which I might add, they did say he had high cap mags for it, which also means he knew how to convert the mags or the gun, and where do you think he learned that? here....)

 

further, the new york facist fucking state tried to pull another addendum onto our AWB here. guess what was listed by name on it? SAIGA. not rifle shotgun, but by brand. the facist fucks might be assholes, but they arent totally stupid, it seems.

 

PLUS you have the ATF watching whats going on with this gun, at times pretty closely, as was the case when the drum mags were in the process of being made. thankfully the manufacturer stepped in after recieving a telephone call and sent the person a cease and desist order before they were sold on the public market. one drum for the saiga or mag bigger than 10 rounds goes up for sale and the shotguns will DEFINATELY be deemed destructive devices. plus the ATF is watching the import of the 8 rounders. I think they are pissed that we have a way around thier bullshit laws that I might add are a violation of mine and yours constitutional rights. but thats another story altogether.

 

I DO know that no high capacity mag made after the old AWB date is allowed to come into the facist state of New york. I know there are also several OTHER states that prohibit this as well. Kind of pisses me off that I have to feel like a criminal when I get preban hi caps from out of state, even though it is completely legal for me to do so. for now at least.

 

If one makes 10 round shotgun magazines, and sends them into a facist state like mine and gets caught, they will be in prison. And Im sure the saigas will get some unneeded attention.

 

and as for the comments of ya'll about the gun grabbers and the revolution that would ensue, I for one fully intend to NOT allow the facist fucks to take mine while I still have breath in my lungs. Believe me, you all will read about it. We need to send the fuckers to canada before they make our country into a yellow spineless pussy town. the right to bear arms has GREATLY to do with our combat soldier's effectiveness over the years to boot.

 

when the governemnt takes away your right to bear arms in any way shape or form, they violate the constitution. and once that right is gone, what do you think is going to go next?

 

anyway, my point is when you ship these mags, be goddamn sure of where they go to and that you arent knowingly providing them to people in states where they are prohibited.

[Z1500 0]

anyway, my point is when you ship these mags, be goddamn sure of where they go to and that you arent knowingly providing them to people in states where they are prohibited.

 

That is something I'm going to be VERY VERY VERY carefull of. I will also have some cheap US made parts on the same webpage for sale so that a guy could buy the mag and a trigger or gas piston to be totally leagal.

 

I didn't know a Saiga-12 had ever been used in a murder, much less then noted by the media, that really doesn't help us.

 

Kevin

[Integratedj 1]

It wasn't a Saiga 12 that Vnag used, it was one of the rifles. The media also laveled it as a "Saiga SKS" when it went to print with the story.

IJ

[Bvamp 604]

it was a saiga 7.62 not an s12.

[TacticalResponse 0]

I'm sure that the left wing of the Democratic party is extremely pissed at Bush for allowing the 94 crime bill to sunset. The next time a left wing President gets into office don't expect them to talk about another ban. This time they will talk about confiscation in an attempt to rid America of all the guns that they don't want us to own.

Edited December 26, 2005 by TacticalResponse

[Bvamp 604]

its not a question of IF, but WHEN the facist fucks do it.

[TacticalResponse 0]

its not a question of IF, but WHEN the facist fucks do it.

 

 

We all know that sooner or later a left wing anti-gun president is going to get back in office, It's just a matter of time. We'll then have a national gun turn in program like Australia had. This time though, we'll turn them in American Style!

Edited December 26, 2005 by TacticalResponse

[Wolverine 10,360]

Heaven help us all if Queen Hillary is elected. She will team with Feinstein and other anti-gun fanatics in an all out war on firearms ownership beginning with all imports. Radical change is most effectively achieved through incremental change.

 

Wolverine

[Illumini 0]

You would think Hurricane Katrina taught everybody the 2nd amendment ain't about duck hunting when the same govt and local police were more concerned with guarding commercial property than your family. It proved even in our modern world it doesn't take much of a push to for ppl to get medieval when resources dwindle and you can only depend on yourself to save you and your family's asses. Don't worry the gun grabbers will protect you.

[Bvamp 604]

like one of my bumper stickers say:

 

sure, you can have my gun - bullets first

[G O B 3,516]

"vamp- I want that bumpersticker. Care to trade for a "186,000 MPS It's the law!" license frame?

 

 

G O B

[Bvamp 604]

oh, its on the truck already there big guy! hahah. I need a gun rack that cant be torn out of my truck by a drugged african american so I can tote some hardware around town for all the gun grabbers to see.

 

If I werent against personalised license plates, Id get one that has something like F libral or something on it...

 

the sticker came out of a class 3 gunshop in florida somewheres where my father is building a house. Ill be down in tampa area in a couple weeks, Ill see if I can get into some of the class 3 shops down there and get a few for you guys.

[M15A4spr 0]

One thing for sure, thanks to all who even attempted to make a 10rd mag. I don't think I have often heard of someone just making this stuff before. I think you have to admire the ppl who invested the time and money for this. Now we need to make a group to lobby against ppl trying to outlaw it.

Good luck. The NRA is notoriously weak on this sort of thing.

Amen to that

 

(*See Sig line*)

[kmoore 3]

Kmoore my S 12 was converted before 922r compliance came into effect. My S 12 conversion has only Russian and East European parts. No U.S. parts were used. So my S 12 is not in compliance. My question to you is if I use a 10 round domestic mag in it, will I have to change anything more than the PG and the FCG to make it compliant?

 

Sorry TR, just saw this. Here's my interpretation of your situation.

 

Assume your shotty is "not sporting" ( you mention the PG). To be compliant with 922r, you can not have more than 10 foriegn parts. There are 14 on a PG shotty. Common compliance is the FCG (3 parts) and either stock or PG or both (overkill). IF you want to count the mag towards compliance (means no using factory mags) then a single replacement part is your minimal change. PG is cheapest and easiest, but other parts aren't hard.

 

The problem with using a mag for compliance when you need 4 parts changed, is it precludes owning factory/foreign mags. I don't know how sticky your situation gets if you have factory mags in your possession (say you have another legal Saiga they are used with, or you borrow a friends mag, or ???) Personally, I'm a belt and suspenders kind of guy when it comes to the conversion.

 

I made a comment in another thread saying domestic 10 round mags would be fine for compliance, but that was only with an otherwise sporterized shotgun. That situation requires only 3 parts for compliance, and compliance is only needed when mags > 5 rounds are used. So, the only way to get in trouble would be to use factory 8 "hi cap" mags. 5 round and 2 round mags = sporting purpose = no needed compliance.

 

That is why I'd recommend not using domestic mags towards minimal compliance when more than 14 parts exist (pg versions, or using a factory fs).

 

Realize that the above is how things are to the best of my current understanding.

 

I'm also not commenting at all on your pre 922 conversion

Edited December 27, 2005 by kmoore

[TacticalResponse 0]

Thanks for the information Kmoore. My other S 12 is stock unconverted, but I know that I'm going to have to do a few things to my converted S 12 to make it compliant. I bought it used about a year ago, and I'm a little dumbfounded as to where the original owner acquired some of the Russian parts for it.

Edited December 27, 2005 by TacticalResponse