JJZ3 0 Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Hello, I am in the process of converting my saiga 7.62x39 into its more natural form. However the tutorials I have seen on installing a 74 FSB on saiga's revolve around the dimpled front sight block, while mine appears to be pinned on the bottom. My reasoning is that the notches/grooves in the barrel should line up properly with a arsenal/k-var front sight block (and gas chamber) any feedback??? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dashowdy 141 Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 The dimples are exclusive to saigas only, the new ones all use the pins now to hold them on. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mancat 2,368 Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 the dimples are not unique to saiga rifles. they are how the majority of molot/izhmash guns have been made for years now. some of the older production models seem to have been used to simply make use of surplus pinned components. in theory you should be able to unpin and pull the current FSB, then install a threaded replacement, and the pin channels should be close enough that you may only need to ream them out to install the pins again. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mopar14889 1 Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 The dimples are exclusive to saigas only, the new ones all use the pins now to hold them on.My 2012 7.62 is dimpled as is my 09 5.45. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dashowdy 141 Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 I know the neutered fsbs are dimpled but all the threaded ones I have seen are pinned, wonder if arsenals are dimpled or pinned? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mancat 2,368 Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 The SGL series are pinned. The only reason I can think of is that Arsenal needs to install the FSB stateside to get around "sporting use" import restrictions that include things like threaded muzzles. Any of the current military-production Izhmash/Molot rifles have the dimpled components. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dashowdy 141 Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 Mancat is it even possible to pull off a dimpled fsb without cutting it? Just curious because at least with the pins you can fix a canted fsb, had one on my sar 2 but was swapping it back anyway to orginal, I went to 1/8 roll pins since a good 3mm bit is hard to find. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mancat 2,368 Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 (edited) I'm saying that I believe the SGL series use pinned components so that they can be imported without the components installed if necessary - I'm pretty sure that they cannot import them without at least a welded muzzle cap on the threads, but don't know that for a fact. That would explain why the non-threaded Saiga models typically use the same dimpled process as the current military production rifles. There's no way to pull off the dimpled components without cutting them or drilling out the dimples. as far as getting 3mm pins.. most people will buy 3mm drill bits and then cut them to size. they're relatively cheap at places like Fastenal. some times the pre-drilled barrel components are off-center enough that going up to 1/8" is not possible. Edited October 30, 2013 by mancat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dashowdy 141 Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 I'm saying that I believe the SGL series use pinned components so that they can be imported without the components installed if necessary - I'm pretty sure that they cannot import them without at least a welded muzzle cap on the threads, but don't know that for a fact. That would explain why the non-threaded Saiga models typically use the same dimpled process as the current military production rifles. There's no way to pull off the dimpled components without cutting them or drilling out the dimples. as far as getting 3mm pins.. most people will buy 3mm drill bits and then cut them to size. they're relatively cheap at places like Fastenal. some times the pre-drilled barrel components are off-center enough that going up to 1/8" is not possible. I figured this was the case, I just used 1/8 because it was drilled nice and straight and the pins and bits were easy too find, apparently noone around here stocks a 3mm drill bit that will hold up to the fsb hardened steel. The newer saiga's use a 74 fsb if I am not mistaken, have yet to do mine I am running the 14x1 adapter to 24mm so not totally correct but a real 74 brake is a plus, completely negates any recoil and muzzle rise now. I had a tapco( know how much you love those!) definitely a paper weight for sure. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Inebriated 31 Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 My Saiga is pinned. I think at least all the '13 Saigas have moved over to being pinned. My Arsenal FSB should be here in a few days, hopefully by Monday. I'll let you know how it works. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thebuns1 4,323 Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 I'm saying that I believe the SGL series use pinned components so that they can be imported without the components installed if necessary - I'm pretty sure that they cannot import them without at least a welded muzzle cap on the threads, but don't know that for a fact. That would explain why the non-threaded Saiga models typically use the same dimpled process as the current military production rifles. There's no way to pull off the dimpled components without cutting them or drilling out the dimples. as far as getting 3mm pins.. most people will buy 3mm drill bits and then cut them to size. they're relatively cheap at places like Fastenal. some times the pre-drilled barrel components are off-center enough that going up to 1/8" is not possible. This is assuming that the SGL rifles that Arsenal used to have their name on from Legion were coming in the country already able to be fired. They can order them a specific way, and Id say they could very easily be imported without furniture, a FCG and a trigger guard. So its very possible they also come into the country without a thread protector on the FSB, and basically a barreled receiver. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mancat 2,368 Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 cap that is basically what I was saying Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mopar14889 1 Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 My Saiga is pinned. I think at least all the '13 Saigas have moved over to being pinned. My Arsenal FSB should be here in a few days, hopefully by Monday. I'll let you know how it works. Which arsenal fsb did you buy, regular 74 or their ak105 repro? If its the 105 it's nice, chrome lines gas chamber. Only problem is its a direct copy of the Russian one so the barrel needs to be turned down. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mancat 2,368 Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 (edited) barrel shouldn't have to be turned down for anything. the saiga 7.62x39 barrels all have the same spec as any AK-74 or AK-100 series FSB - .571" the only ones that may be different are Saiga-M Edited October 31, 2013 by mancat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thebuns1 4,323 Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 cap that is basically what I was saying lol. Yeah, I got that after rereading your post. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mopar14889 1 Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 barrel shouldn't have to be turned down for anything. the saiga 7.62x39 barrels all have the same spec as any AK-74 or AK-100 series FSB - .571" the only ones that may be different are Saiga-M Not the Russian ak105 gb/fsb. I didn't know they also made 74 repro fsb's. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mancat 2,368 Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 (edited) yeah, that particular component is meant to affix to the gas block journal and will have a ID of .591". not sure what you mean by "repro" AK-74 FSBs.. I'm talking about surplus/parts kit FSBs. the AK-100 series components have the same inner diameters. barrel dimensions have not changed from the AK-74 series to AK-100 series, except for the oddballs like .308 and heavy barrels for some Saiga .223 and Saiga-M. Edited October 31, 2013 by mancat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mopar14889 1 Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 Oh they're surplus, how much are they and are they complete. I usually get my odd parts from a guy on the ak forum. The complete sights range from $30-$50 depending on how he rates their condition. I usually buy whatever the cheapest is that I need. Even something he says is in ok condition is usually great. Mostly it's a finish issue. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mancat 2,368 Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 $30 is a good price for AK-74 FSB right now if it's $30-50 for the AK-105 combo FSB/GB (original, NOT a bolt-on) then that's a steal. they are often near $100. either one will fit onto a Saiga 7.62x39 barrel without modification. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JJZ3 0 Posted February 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2014 Any tips on how to get the FSB pins out? I was thinking about just drilling through them... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Inebriated 31 Posted February 24, 2014 Report Share Posted February 24, 2014 Any tips on how to get the FSB pins out? I was thinking about just drilling through them... Go left-to-right. If you don't have a solid bench and good punches, find some. If you can't get it to go (you should be able to), try some liquid wrench or kroil. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JJZ3 0 Posted February 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 Well I got it off with some qualified help. A small portion of the barrel protrudes from the end of the 24mm fsb when llined up with the factory barrel notches. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
semper299 284 Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 I am curious about this. Just bought a x39 from Atlantic and I did not look to see if FSB is dimpled or pinned. I already have a Bulgy 74 FSB to install. If dimpled, have you guys ever heard of people using nails as pins, then just cutting off the excess. The reasoning behind using the nails is that the metal is softer and will basically contour itselt to the channel in the barrel. Now, if I use cut off drill bits for pins, do I use the same size as the hole I drilled? In other words, if I use a 3mm bit to drill the channel, do I also use a 3mm bit for the pins? Well I got it off with some qualified help. A small portion of the barrel protrudes from the end of the 24mm fsb when llined up with the factory barrel notches. You may have already answers this, but you are saying that on your x39, the factory Saiga FSB is pinned, and the channels line up with a Bulgy 74 FSB? I am also assuming that the barrel protruding slightly is not a problem, given that the brake will cover it? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JJZ3 0 Posted February 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 (edited) You may have already answers this, but you are saying that on your x39, the factory Saiga FSB is pinned, and the channels line up with a Bulgy 74 FSB? I am also assuming that the barrel protruding slightly is not a problem, given that the brake will cover it? That is correct! I hope you're right about the barrel protrusion/muzzle device. I want to attatch a Bulgarian AR-M1 pattern "A2 style" on mine... and I hadn't considered that this might make it difficult. The pins I received with my FSB appear much larger than the pin I recovered from the factory fsb set up. Does anyone know what is up with the variations/compatibility in regard to these pins? Edited February 26, 2014 by JJZ3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Inebriated 31 Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 I made new pins out of drill stock. Drilled with a 1/8" bit, and cut two new pins out of 1/8" drill stock. Heat treat the new ones, and bam, new pins that fit tight. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
S12KS-K 40 Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 The compatibility is get a dremel and you won't have to worry about it........ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
semper299 284 Posted March 1, 2014 Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 My FSB is pinned, and the pins came out easy enough. Now I just need to cut off shroud and I should be able to use a mallet and whack the FSB off the barrel, correct? JJZ3, are you putting on a Bulgy 74 FSB? I am just curious because you said the pins are larger than the saiga pins. I will have the same problem. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JJZ3 0 Posted March 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 Semper299, it is either Bulgarian or Russian... I ordered mine from the notorious AA-OK as they were the only vendor I could find with a pre-drilled military issue FSB. So to answer your question, I'm not sure. AA-Ok may have included the wrong pins. They are much shorter and fatter than the saiga stock ones. Considering the notches on the barrel line up perfectly with the 74 fsb holes, this is my assumption^ At least the FSB itself is legit, I heard people have received airsoft parts from that site. The fsb appears to have been milled from a solid piece (no seams) and the only marking on it is the number "4" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
semper299 284 Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 Ok, can anyone tell me this...Once I cut the shroud off, the FSB should come off with some mallet encouragement, right? The FSB is pinned, and pins are out. I don't mind cutting the FSB off, but really don't want to if I can just hammer it off. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mancat 2,368 Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 (edited) Semper299, it is either Bulgarian or Russian... I ordered mine from the notorious AA-OK as they were the only vendor I could find with a pre-drilled military issue FSB. So to answer your question, I'm not sure. AA-Ok may have included the wrong pins. They are much shorter and fatter than the saiga stock ones. Considering the notches on the barrel line up perfectly with the 74 fsb holes, this is my assumption^ At least the FSB itself is legit, I heard people have received airsoft parts from that site. The fsb appears to have been milled from a solid piece (no seams) and the only marking on it is the number "4" It could very well be an airsoft part, since some of the airsoft AKs use pretty realistic die-cast copies of the real parts. All AK pins should be 3mm.. If yours are not, that's the first red flag that it's probably a knockoff part. See someone else who ran into this FSB: http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/67311-the-front-sight-block-boondoggle-aa-ok/ Hopefully this isn't the one you bought: http://aa-ok.com/front-sight-base-steel-ak74-style.html Edited March 4, 2014 by mancat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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