gas reg/mags

[TacSat 90]

Looking at getting vepr 12. or .03 saiga. not that i use much low brass. how well does self regulating gas tube work.? Also magwell question. i understand russian mags would be best. but can AGP or SGM be midified to fit. I have several fitted to a JT eng. magwell that work great.

[gunfun 3,931]

SGM makes mags for either. Also there are older and newer 030 style ones. The newer 030s basically use the same mags as veprs, the older legion ones had some different dimensions. There are threads where SGM explains the situation better than that, but they basically have 2 or 3 styles of magwell ready mags out there for these models. I am sure any could be modified to work if necessary. 

 

Self-regulating is kind of a misnomer. Really, they are unregulated and just have a wider window of operation. This means both tend to be a bit pickier than the adjustable gas block guns with weak ammo, and kick a bit harder with the really heavy stuff. It's a bit like if your standard S12 came with a "1.75" setting between 1 and 2 and you just used that for everything. Obviously both have more of an AK style removable gas tube and a different op-rod.

 

You probably know all of this, but here is the breakdown of differences I note.

 

Molot has a bit higher QC than the basic S12, but probably not the OXO saigas. A couple people who've tried both said they were close, but S12 shot a little softer. Molot has thicker metal, which they call a feature. IMO that's a feature only if there was some deficiency with the lighter metal. There isn't. Molot has nice furniture and nice sights, but a peep would be nicer. Some of them are slant cut and will need an adapter. The ones with the cool folder, will be a little trickier to meet 922R with (US: FCG + Puck+ pistol grip is easiest). Molot has a cool safety, and comes in an original PG format with no holes to fill, but you will still have to swap compliance parts. Molot bolt has less need for a profile job. OXO has a metal Pic rail, vs Molot's plastic (often crooked) rail. V12 has an odd issue with mounting an optic directly over ejection port. I don't know if any one ever had that problem with an OXO or not. Both have LRBHO depending on OXO variant. IMO, add up the cost of all the compliance parts and custom features you want and see if either offers a better deal to get there. If the cost is the same, flip a coin. 

 

With the OXO models, there are more options of handguard, etc. but you have to be more careful, it's kind of mix n' match about whether you get the gas block, magwell, LRBHO and all that other stuff in each combination. Some of the packages have kinda hokey brakes permed onto the end too.

[Legion USA 107]

Great response GunFun! In my opinion it comes down to your budget. You can buy an unconverted 030 type and have it converted and still be under $1000, while the Vepr costs $1300-$1400 unconverted. With that being said, I personally chose The Vepr. I feel that the recoil on the Vepr is more tame, especially once you add a muzzle brake, and the factory folding stock mechanism on the Vepr is top notch. Also, there are no real bolt on quadrails or aftermarket handguards for the 030 Saiga model. Everything I have seen has needed custom fitting. The self regulating gas system is effective in both shotguns, however they are not designed to cycle low brass out of the box. The lightest load that my Vepr cycles is 7 1/2 birdshot.

[TacSat 90]

Thanks. Looks like i will have mod mags that is ok.

[gunfun 3,931]

Great response GunFun! In my opinion it comes down to your budget. You can buy an unconverted 030 type and have it converted and still be under $1000, while the Vepr costs $1300-$1400 unconverted. With that being said, I personally chose The Vepr. I feel that the recoil on the Vepr is more tame, especially once you add a muzzle brake, and the factory folding stock mechanism on the Vepr is top notch. Also, there are no real bolt on quadrails or aftermarket handguards for the 030 Saiga model. Everything I have seen has needed custom fitting. The self regulating gas system is effective in both shotguns, however they are not designed to cycle low brass out of the box. The lightest load that my Vepr cycles is 7 1/2 birdshot.

 

You say the V12 kicks lighter. Interesting.

 

Also 7 1/2 birdshot is the only thing on the box that doesn't help say how heavy a load you are shooting. What's your minimum weight and velocity?

[SHADOWCHASER 7]

You say the V12 kicks lighter. Interesting.

 

Also 7 1/2 birdshot is the only thing on the box that doesn't help say how heavy a load you are shooting. What's your minimum weight and velocity?

Here's what the WPA Owners Manual that came with my V12E* calls for.:

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/gallery/image/9396-wpa-owners-manual-5-of-5/

 

Staying within that specific (32 gram/1.128767 ounce) minimum payload weight, I personally have had 100% reliability. Albeit, I haven't tried anything slower than 1200 fps, or Less than 1.125 ounce (1-1/8 ounce) in payload weight.

 

My V12E* also Seems to Shoot a Bit Softer than my Cousin's base model S12 (Both with 19" inch Barrels, with the same given loads, & without any Recoil Pads or Muzzle Devices Installed), but I found it to be Negligible at best.

 

IMHO this could also be attributable as much to the Heavier weight/mass of the V12 vs the S12 in the absorption of the felt recoil, as it could to the differences in the Gas Regulation Designs. YMMV

Edited November 9, 2013 by SHADOWCHASER

[gunfun 3,931]

A couple of the Russian guys like Sergii or PZ, (I forget which) mentioned that they ran factory team V12s (basically what you might call a "works model") that were tuned for 28 gram loads.  (~1oz)

 

I doubt they did much beyond the sort of stuff we are used to doing. 1 verify timing related stuff is smooth. 2 reduce friction elsewhere (the bolts looked normal) 3. softer spring 4. open up the ports slightly.

[Legion USA 107]

 

Great response GunFun! In my opinion it comes down to your budget. You can buy an unconverted 030 type and have it converted and still be under $1000, while the Vepr costs $1300-$1400 unconverted. With that being said, I personally chose The Vepr. I feel that the recoil on the Vepr is more tame, especially once you add a muzzle brake, and the factory folding stock mechanism on the Vepr is top notch. Also, there are no real bolt on quadrails or aftermarket handguards for the 030 Saiga model. Everything I have seen has needed custom fitting. The self regulating gas system is effective in both shotguns, however they are not designed to cycle low brass out of the box. The lightest load that my Vepr cycles is 7 1/2 birdshot.

 

You say the V12 kicks lighter. Interesting.

 

Also 7 1/2 birdshot is the only thing on the box that doesn't help say how heavy a load you are shooting. What's your minimum weight and velocity?

 

Weight was 1 1/8 OZ and it says on the box 1200fps. Hope this helps.

[gunfun 3,931]

That's what helps. That's about the same baseline as a healthy S12 with the normal 2 position gas block. Others have reported needing a little hotter ammo, and as many say the same as you. It looks like V12s are subject to some of the same variations as the S12s, but to a lesser degree.