Zastava/Yugo M57 Tokarev

[JDeko 792]

but if there were a JHP 7.62x25 round [which supposedly exist]  it would be rather devastating, wouldn't it?

 

Barring that would .357 sig or .45 acp be the safer bet for self defense, i realize i'm ignoring your main advice of 9mm but i've just seen/heard too many cases of people incorporating them into their body without much distress when given the chance via 92Fs or other pistols.

[VR762Shooter 838]

If you can find JHP it may be. I have seen very little about anyone carrying a x25 as a defensive gun and having to use it to be able to know offhand. If you're very nervous about 9mm not being sufficient (again it is really about placement with any round) then the .357 Sig as Shandlanos said may be your better option. You could get a used Glock in the .40S&W caliber and get a .357 barrel for it (or vice versa) use the .40 for practice and the .357 for carry/home defense

Edited October 21, 2014 by VR6Shooter

[JDeko 792]

I know its mostly about placement, but I'd like a big enough hole to compensate if I'm not uber great at pounding nails whilst in danger. That said I've shot a .44 mag and it was very unpleasant, i'd not want to shoot that to save my life, so .500 mag is definitely out. If money was no issue I'd just get a Deagle, recoil is pretty controllable and it'd make a big hole. Hell I could just get the .357 model since I think it probably hits harder than the .50ae.

 

Springfield Armory has a .357 sig for about 550, would a glock and a separate barrel be less than that?

[VR762Shooter 838]

When I was looking at a barrel swap on my Glocks I found they were in the 100-130 range, but this was a few years back and haven't looked lately. I don't know that a Dessert Eagle would be an optimal gun, large, heavy and overpriced. A used Glock in .357 and a 40 barrel or a 40 with a .357 barrel should be doable in the 500-550 range. Depends on area, though. We can't find Glocks in our area used for less than $600 most the time now and new is undoable

[JDeko 792]

It might be kinda heavy, but it has a light trigger and the weight eats a lot of recoil. Plus being semi-auto it is easier to fire quickly than a revolver

[mancat 2,368]

I have a Norinco TT33, and while it's a great pistol, and x25 is a great pistol cartridge if all you care about is raw penetration, if I was going to buy another Tokarev today I would buy one in 9mm.

 

You will have an extremely wide selection of ammo in 9mm and the M57/M70, being a super heavy-duty design, will handle all of it. When you run out of ammo you can then throw it at the attacker or beat him to death with the grip. Also doubles as a tent stake driver.

 

Design-wise the Tokarev is sort of like if Colt had put the 1911's internals inside the 1903 frame and slide, with an external hammer. It is a pretty slim pistol, and Zastava does have a compact 9mm version that I could see being a decent carry option, aside from being all-steel - but that has never stopped compact 1911 carriers before.

 

However I would stress that there are a LOT better pistols out there than the Tokarev in a similar price range. E.g. look at some of the pistols from Canik or Grand Power. Several on this board own some of those and rate them highly. Don't forget to look at other used pistols while you're at it - e.g. used Glocks are routinely found under $300 especially LEO turn-ins. You can send off the slide to Glock and for $40 they will completely rebuild it with all new internals, huge value.

Edited October 21, 2014 by mancat

[JDeko 792]

So I might be able to get a .357 sig Glock for around 300 and just get it rebuilt for 40 dollars?

[mancat 2,368]

Basically, but why you would buy a Glock in .357 Sig is beyond me.. Personally I would go either 9mm, .40S&W or .45 ACP.

[JDeko 792]

9mm does not seem sufficient to me, and I've been told that .45 acps can be defeated by thick clothing due to their low velocity. I was hoping to skirt those two issues and get the .357 sig.

[JESS1344 508]

JDEKO,

  HERE'S THE INFO ON THE BUFFALO BORE +P+ 95GR ROUND WITH THE BARNES ALL COPPER BULLET.

   THIS ROUND PENETRATES 13" IN BALLISTIC GEL, AND DUE TO IT BEING SOLID COPPER, YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THE BULLET COMING APART, AS WITH TYPICAL LEAD/COPPER JACKET PROJECTILES, AS WITH MY 7.62X25 EXEMPLAR.

  AS CAN BE SEEN IN THE PICS OF THE .454 PROJECTILES, EVEN IF YOU TEAR OFF SOME OR EVEN ALL OF THE PETALS, YOU STILL HAVE THAT COPPER "BISCUIT" THAT JUST KEEPS ON TRUCKIN'.

  THE FIRST EXPANDED BULLET, WITH ALL OF ITS PETALS, WAS LOADED OVER 28.0GR. OF H110, THE ONE MISSING PETALS SAT ATOP 30.0GR OF H110.

  BOTH WENT THROUGH TWO 2 1/2GAL. PLASTIC WATER JUGS, SAT END-TO-END, AND KEPT ON GOING, ONLY TO STRIKE THE TIRE WALL AROUND THE RANGE, AND BOUNCE BACK ABOUT 15-20FT., WHERE I FOUND THEM ON THE GROUND.

  BEING LIGHT, AT 95GR., THERE ISN'T MUCH RECOIL, IN SPITE OF THE HIGH VELOCITY.

  IF YOU GET A G23, IN .40CAL., YOU CAN GET A LONE WOLF BARREL (I HAVE THE EXTENDED/PORTED VARIATION IN MINE) IN .357SIG, AND USE THE SAME MAGS.

  YOU CAN ALSO GET A LONE WOLF CONVERSION  BARREL IN 9P, BUT YOU'LL NEED THE DEDICATED 9P G19 MAGS (OR THE LONGER G17 MAGS IF YOU WANT MORE ROUNDS, THOUGH IT WILL EXTEND BELOW THE GRIP FRAME). I'D GO WITH THE EXTENDED/PORTED VARIANT WITH THE 9P ALSO.

  SO,  WITH ONE BASIC GUN, YOU CAN MAKE IT SHOOT 3 DIFFERENT CALIBERS, IF YOU SO DESIRE.

   LOTS OF PLACES HAVE USED G23's GEN III's, THE GEN II's GETTING KINDA SCARCE.

  MAIN DIFFERENCES, GEN II/GEN III ARE: THE GEN II's ARE A LITTLE THINNER, SIDE-TO-SIDE, THROUGH THE GRIP FRAME, AND ALSO DO NOT HAVE FINGER GROOVED FRONT STRAPS AND NO LIGHT RAIL.

  IF YOU THINK YOU MAY EVER WISH TO MOUNT A LIGHT/LASER, GO GEN III, WITH THE RAIL.

  PERSONALLY, I DO NOT FAVOR LIGHTS ON HANDGUNS, AS THERE ARE A WHOLE LOT OF THINGS THAT NEED TO BE ILLUMINATED, BUT DO NOT ALSO NEED A GUN POINTED AT THEM.

  I PREFER TO USE THE LIGHT, HAND-HELD, IN THE HARRIES FLASHLIGHT/PISTOL TECHNIQUE. (MICHAEL, GOD REST HIS SOUL, WAS ONE OF MY INSTRUCTORS, BOTH TIMES I ATTENDED GUNSITE 1989-1990).

  A (GREEN) LASER, HOWEVER, IS A DIFFERENT THING, AND I WILL MOUNT A SMALL UNOBTRUSIVE SAMPLE ON MY GEN III's.

  I'D LIKE TO TRY ONE OF THE GUIDE ROD (GREEN) LASERS, BUT THEY ARE JUST A LITTLE OUT OF MY FINANCIAL REACH, AT THE MOMENT.

  AS TO A "HOUSE LOAD" FOR A SHOTGUN, I LOAD 7 1/2 SHOT IN A 15RND. PRO-MAG DRUM, IN MY SAIGA.

  AT HOUSE DISTANCES, THE SHOT CHARGE WILL STILL BE SO COMPACT AS TO MAKE A "RAT HOLE" WOUND, BUT WILL BE LESS LIKELY TO PENETRATE WALLS, AS WITH OO OR SLUGS, OR ENDANGER NEIGHBORS WITH SLUGS.

  I ALSO HAVE THE FACTORY 5RND. MAG, LOADED WITH SLUGS, SITTING NEXT TO THE SAIGA, WHICH WILL SLIP INTO A HIP POCKET, IN THE INSTANCE THAT I HAVE TO MAKE A "LONG-DISTANCE" CALL.

  JUS' SAYIN'........

  JESS1344

 

PRESS RELEASE FOR BUFFALO BARNES 9MM +P+, 95gr. TAC-XP, LOW FLASH (ITEM 24G)

 

This loading features some positive developments for the 9MM, for those wanting an expanding bullet. First, the light weight 95gr. Barnes X-type bullet generates very little felt recoil, which aids in fast follow-up shots. Second, as do all X-type bullets, that all copper bullet, penetrates very deeply for a .355 diameter bullet that only weighs 95grs. Expect roughly 13 inches of penetration in ballistic gelatin.

Nearly all Buffalo Bore Tactical/self defense ammo features low flash powder and this load is no exception. We think low flash powder offers a huge tactical advantage to the shooter as almost all civilian shootings in the US happen in low light when the criminal element is most active and this ammo will not blind the shooter.

As with all Buffalo Bore loadings, we advertise real world velocities from real over-the-counter firearms, so the shooter can know what the ammo is actually achieving. The long time industry standard of using extra long test barrels to generate advertised velocities is dishonest to the customer as the customer has no idea what type of performance the ammunition actually delivers in the real world, which is the only place it matters.

NOTE MY REAL WORLD VELOCITIES FROM REAL WORLD FIREARMS:

1. 1524 fps -- Walther P88-4 inch barrel
   
2. 1374 fps -- Glock 19-4 inch barrel
   
3. 1508 fps -- Browning Hi Power MK111-4.6 inch barrel
   
4. 1496 fps -- Beretta 92F-4.9 inch barrel
   

You’ll note that some of the shorter barrels developed faster velocities than some of the longer barrels. This is due to barrel internal dynamics such as surface smoothness, land and groove dimensions, chamber dimensions, etc. Barrel length alone is not always an accurate determinate of velocity generated with any given load.

This load was reliable in all test pistols and exhibited excellent to good accuracy in all test pistols.

waltf on 01/05/2014 12:55am

Recently tested this load from a Glock 26 into an FBI spec Clear Ballistics block. Thru a t-shirt, sweatshirt and a layer of denim it penetrated 13.0 inches and expanded to 62 caliber. 100% weight retention

walt on 08/04/2013 12:07am

Fired this load thru my Kahr K9 and found it very accurate and easy to control. Recoil is surprisingly mild.

scott on 06/29/2013 09:21pm

this stuff is effective! im a huge buffalo bore fan. carried daily in my glock 19 while working in deep south tx.where you may need fast stopping power combined with accuracy in a hurry.this is the ne-plus ultra sd ccw carry load.wont speak to how i know.its the real deal.

[mancat 2,368]

9mm does not seem sufficient to me, and I've been told that .45 acps can be defeated by thick clothing due to their low velocity. I was hoping to skirt those two issues and get the .357 sig.

 

not sufficient for what though? it is the predominant military/LE round for pretty much the entire world, with .40S&W in a close second, .45ACP still in heavy use. some agencies using .40S&W are even going back to 9mm.

 

I mean I have to ask if you're planning on shooting through car doors, or inside a house?

[BigChongus 765]

George Zimmerman got decent results with 9mm.

[VR762Shooter 838]

9mm does not seem sufficient to me, and I've been told that .45 acps can be defeated by thick clothing due to their low velocity. I was hoping to skirt those two issues and get the .357 sig.

 

The only difference between 9mm and .357 Sig is the case the round is held in and the shape of the round being a more wad-cutter style flat nose in .357 Sig, 9mm being ball when compared in FMJ. Other than that bullet diameter is the same, it's just a hotter load because of the case capacity being increased due to the case being .40 and necked down. 

 

http://www.americanrifleman.org/blogs/9mm-versus-357sig

Edited October 21, 2014 by VR6Shooter

[JDeko 792]

I've just heard a lot of stories, and seen people on TV in documentaries/War Stories/Police Videos who seem only slightly inconvenienced by 9mm rounds entering their torso. I'd heard that .45 acp were much better at removing vital parts of the body when placed inside them via explosions but in this thread I was introduced to the fact that much like the fat kid .45's are they can't go fast and take plenty of excuses to stop when they should really keep going.

 

 

9mm does not seem sufficient to me, and I've been told that .45 acps can be defeated by thick clothing due to their low velocity. I was hoping to skirt those two issues and get the .357 sig.

 

not sufficient for what though? it is the predominant military/LE round for pretty much the entire world, with .40S&W in a close second, .45ACP still in heavy use. some agencies using .40S&W are even going back to 9mm.

 

I mean I have to ask if you're planning on shooting through car doors, or inside a house?

 

I've just heard a lot of stories, and seen people on TV in documentaries/War Stories/Police Videos who seem only slightly inconvenienced by 9mm rounds entering their torso. I'd heard that .45 acp were much better at removing vital parts of the body when placed inside them via explosions but in this thread I was introduced to the fact that much like the fat kid .45's are they can't go fast and take plenty of excuses to stop when they should really keep going.

And the military aspect is most based on the idea "more small bullets > less big bullets" far be it from me to disagree with the pentagon but i do, i'd rather put one hole in them than pour a hail of fire and hope the sum of the multiple bullets does the job. [the extreme end of this is folks saying to use a .22lr because you can empty the mag quickly and with little correction]

 

 

9mm does not seem sufficient to me, and I've been told that .45 acps can be defeated by thick clothing due to their low velocity. I was hoping to skirt those two issues and get the .357 sig.

 

The only difference between 9mm and .357 Sig is the case the round is held in and the shape of the round being a more wad-cutter style flat nose in .357 Sig, 9mm being ball when compared in FMJ. Other than that bullet diameter is the same, it's just a hotter load because of the case capacity being increased due to the case being .40 and necked down. 

 

http://www.americanrifleman.org/blogs/9mm-versus-357sig

 

 

so the .357 sig wouldn't really do much more than a 9mm would? Like the extra charge and different nose shape wouldn't do much to stop folk?

[Shandlanos 1,470]

 

If money was no issue I'd just get a Deagle, recoil is pretty controllable and it'd make a big hole. Hell I could just get the .357 model since I think it probably hits harder than the .50ae.

...No.

 

.357 magnum is just an elongated .38SPL - which is just a rimmed 9mm cartridge. It's okay. .50 AE is a devastating cartridge. The velocities of both cartridges are similar - 1300-1600 FPS,  as rough estimate. .357 you're usually throwing 125 all the way up to a max of about 200gr of lead. .50 AE is 300-400 grains. You're looking at nearly twice the average muzzle energy from .50AE versus .357 magnum. I'd be concerned with overpenetration with either cartridge - with a proper JHP it's less of a problem, but both cartridges, in most loads, are going very fast.

 

 

I own a .50 AE Desert Eagle. It would be one of the last pistols I'd grab. If it has a practical purpose, it's for bear defense if I'm in a place where I can't carry an S-12 but a pistol is alright. For the most part, it's a novelty.

 

I really don't know how to say this without being mean. Your knowledge of ballistics and cartridge selection/efficacy is sorely lacking. You seem to be relying on a mixture of myths and misconceptions that are constantly repeated and so bear the illusion of truth. Take the time to really research - read source material, not just biased opinions like mine - and learn for yourself. You have a lot of misconceptions.

[JDeko 792]

I'm very new to the world of firearms, I don't even know where to go for this 'source' information.  All I've ever shot is paper, and i could name you ever weapon I've ever fired at the one gun range I've ever been to. I'm not claiming to be an expert, or to even be that sure of what I'm saying. That's why I ask so many questions and reply so quickly. I want to learn about this stuff because it interests me greatly.

[VR762Shooter 838]

so the .357 sig wouldn't really do much more than a 9mm would? Like the extra charge and different nose shape wouldn't do much to stop folk?

It will do a little more FMJ to FMJ and a bit more comparing HP, but you have to do a pro vs con on the round since theyre both 9mm:

Pro vs 9mm

Hotter loads have more power

Flatter trajectory

Cons vs 9mm

More expensive

More wear

Less ammo options

Lower ammo availability

Less gun options

 

You really have to ask yourself if it's worth believing that it is going to make things that much more dead in a SD situation to warrant the cons

[mancat 2,368]

I've just heard a lot of stories, and seen people on TV in documentaries/War Stories/Police Videos who seem only slightly inconvenienced by 9mm rounds entering their torso. I'd heard that .45 acp were much better at removing vital parts of the body when placed inside them via explosions but in this thread I was introduced to the fact that much like the fat kid .45's are they can't go fast and take plenty of excuses to stop when they should really keep going.

 

The military is also limited by the Hague convention, in that they cannot make use of any sort of expanding/fragmenting bullets. 9mm is a very effective round when you get to choose exactly what kind of powder charge and bullet selection you load into the gun - same goes for .40S&W, .45ACP, and any other pistol cartridge used by the military which may or may not have a reputation of poor knockdown power when complying with international law and treaties.

 

Some people might not go down after being hit with a cheap factory load of FMJ 9mm - basically what many might consider just target ammo.. They probably will go down hard when hit with a +P JHP 9mm.

Edited October 21, 2014 by mancat

[JDeko 792]

 

so the .357 sig wouldn't really do much more than a 9mm would? Like the extra charge and different nose shape wouldn't do much to stop folk?

It will do a little more FMJ to FMJ and a bit more comparing HP, but you have to do a pro vs con on the round since theyre both 9mm:

Pro vs 9mm

Hotter loads have more power

Flatter trajectory

Cons vs 9mm

More expensive

More wear

Less ammo options

Lower ammo availability

Less gun options

 

You really have to ask yourself if it's worth believing that it is going to make things that much more dead in a SD situation to warrant the cons

 

 

More wear? As in they wear the pistols that fire them out faster than 9mm do?

 

 

I've just heard a lot of stories, and seen people on TV in documentaries/War Stories/Police Videos who seem only slightly inconvenienced by 9mm rounds entering their torso. I'd heard that .45 acp were much better at removing vital parts of the body when placed inside them via explosions but in this thread I was introduced to the fact that much like the fat kid .45's are they can't go fast and take plenty of excuses to stop when they should really keep going.

 

The military is also limited by the Hague convention, in that they cannot make use of any sort of expanding/fragmenting bullets. 9mm is a very effective round when you get to choose exactly what kind of powder charge and bullet selection you load into the gun - same goes for .40S&W, .45ACP, and any other pistol cartridge used by the military which may or may not have a reputation of poor knockdown power when complying with international law and treaties.

 

Some people might not go down after being hit with a cheap factory load of FMJ 9mm - basically what many might consider just target ammo.. They probably will go down hard when hit with a +P JHP 9mm.

 

 

I was thinking about that, since militaries can't use HP rounds their ability to drop folks with pistol rounds is kinda kneecapped compared to what can be done with bullets that deform heavily inside people.

[G O B 3,516]

9MM is fine! Any 9MM auto with at least 8 round mag will stop anything that CAN be stopped!  The 9 is the world's most popular round for pistols, because it is the biggest round that most people can shoot well, and allows for more rounds in the mag without getting too bulky or heavy. Get a 9MM for your FIRST pistol. Then later when funds permit, get whatever you want for fun!

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

Nothing at all "wrong" with 9mm even before the latest crop of high velocity ammo.

It performs its purpose rather well.

 

There are several considerations in caliber selection between 9mm, 40sw, and 45 ACP and since all do the job none them really relate to terminal ballistics. I can see no reason for a healthy man to have problems shooting well with any of them as most of what one reads today concerning what is "best" is just advertising hype designed to churn the market.

 

I chose to standardize on 40sw for good reasons relating to availability.  We have been through three real shortages in five years we all know what could be obtained and what was troublesome. In all three 9mm proved tough to find due to the very popularity expressed as a positive in the marketing hype, 40 was easily found if more expensive during the shortages. 

 

Of course others may find that criteria insufficient and that is fine as it is hardly a reason to reevaluate whatever decision a person has already committed to plan but may be important in reaching that decision.

[BigChongus 765]

I've got both 40 and 9mm and trust both of them. My biggest turn-off with 45 is the inherently lower mag capacity compared to the other two.

[Shandlanos 1,470]

My very first handgun, purchased on my 21st birthday, was a Glock 19 in 9mm. I didn't know much about cartridge selection or ballistics then, and just carried whatever HP a random salesman at Cabela's recommended. Pretty sure it was Hornady Critical Defense. Now I carry a Glock 23 in .40 S&W, loaded with 165-gr Speer Gold Dots. I would just as happily carry the 19, but as it's my first handgun I have a lot more attachment to it. If I should ever have to use it defensively, I would hate for it to sit in the evidence room being neglected for a year or more. The 23 I don't really care about. It's purely a utilitarian object, only things that are different from factory are a slightly larger magazine release and tritium sights.

[scattergun10 125]

but if there were a JHP 7.62x25 round [which supposedly exist]  it would be rather devastating, wouldn't it?

 

Barring that would .357 sig or .45 acp be the safer bet for self defense, i realize i'm ignoring your main advice of 9mm but i've just seen/heard too many cases of people incorporating them into their body without much distress when given the chance via 92Fs or other pistols.

 

Wolf Gold makes 7.62x25 JHP.  Reed's Ammunition also makes custom JHP loads in this caliber.

Edited October 21, 2014 by scattergun10

[Shandlanos 1,470]

It's not bonded - jacket separation is a pretty big issue.

[JESS1344 508]

 

but if there were a JHP 7.62x25 round [which supposedly exist]  it would be rather devastating, wouldn't it?

 

Barring that would .357 sig or .45 acp be the safer bet for self defense, i realize i'm ignoring your main advice of 9mm but i've just seen/heard too many cases of people incorporating them into their body without much distress when given the chance via 92Fs or other pistols.

 

Wolf Gold makes 7.62x25 JHP.  Reed's Ammunition also makes custom JHP loads in this caliber.

SCATTERGUN,

  I'VE GOT TWO BOXES OF THAT "WOLF GOLD" HOLLOW POINT; IT'S ACTUALLY PPU, AND IS HEADSTAMPED AS SUCH.

 

  FROM WHAT I WAS TOLD, WOLF DOESN'T "MAKE" ANYTHING, THEY ARE MERELY AN IMPORTER, THOUGH THEY MAY HAVE THE ACTUAL MAKER HEADSTAMP THE CTG. CASE "WOLF".

 

  GOING TO CK-OUT REEDS........

 

  JESS1344

[Lomotil 1]

but if there were a JHP 7.62x25 round [which supposedly exist]  it would be rather devastating, wouldn't it?

 

Barring that would .357 sig or .45 acp be the safer bet for self defense, i realize i'm ignoring your main advice of 9mm but i've just seen/heard too many cases of people incorporating them into their body without much distress when given the chance via 92Fs or other pistols.

PPU makes a very nice 85 gr JHP.

 

Here's a few x25 rounds I reclaimed from shooting into the ground.  They came out of a PPs-43c, and the ground isn't exactly ballistics gelatin, but I'm quite a fan of this round.

 

 

 

The M57/TT's are a fine pistol, and as was mentioned earlier, the Yugo is going to give you an extra round in the mag, but some prefer the original design that will accept either mag.  The surplus ones are also going to have that "eyelet" on the end of the mags, as well as one on the bottom of the grip of the gun itself, while the M57 will not.  As far as the safety goes, personally I find the slide-mounted M57 easier to operate, but as mentioned, it isn't as low profile as the original (which is a bit stiffer to operate.) 

 

The guns are solid, feel good to shoot, and the only plastic on them are the thin grip panels (which have a rather unique method to remove, I might add.) 

 

Ammunition for them has been hit-and-miss lately (availibility, that is,) but they have a sort of cult following, and as long as they're still cranking out brand new pistols and pistol-versions of the PPs-43c's, I would imagine production will continue.  Winchester offers a FMJ x25 that they import from Serbia once a year, and they just did a run not too long ago.  You'll never have the selection or readily available stock like the 9mm, but they can be found.

 

Speaking of the 9mm, the reason the TT and PPs are so easily converted (and produced) in 9mm is because the case difference between the two rounds is within 1/1000th of an inch.  The same bolts and magazines will work with either round.

[JESS1344 508]

LOMOTIL,

  CHECK THE PIC OF THE PPU THAT I SHOT INTO A PLASTIC WATER JUG, EARLIER IN THIS THREAD; LOTSA DIFFERENCE...

 

  ALSO, RED ARMY STANDARD HAS RECENTLY BEGUN IMPORTING ROMANIAN MFG. 'X25, IN STEEL CASED, BERDAN PRIMED, NON-CORRO, FMJ.

 

  CLASSIC HAS IT FOR $49.99 X 150RNDS., AIM ALSO HAS IT for $16.50 x 50rnds.

 

  JESS1344

[VR762Shooter 838]

 

 

so the .357 sig wouldn't really do much more than a 9mm would? Like the extra charge and different nose shape wouldn't do much to stop folk?

It will do a little more FMJ to FMJ and a bit more comparing HP, but you have to do a pro vs con on the round since theyre both 9mm:

Pro vs 9mm

Hotter loads have more power

Flatter trajectory

Cons vs 9mm

More expensive

More wear

Less ammo options

Lower ammo availability

Less gun options

 

You really have to ask yourself if it's worth believing that it is going to make things that much more dead in a SD situation to warrant the cons

 

 

More wear? As in they wear the pistols that fire them out faster than 9mm do?

 

Yes, the .357 Sig has been shown to wear out barrels and (my guess is with plastic guns) the lowers on pistols chambered in it. Now, does that mean rather than 380,000 rounds it'll only run 210,000? I have no idea. This is just information I found when I did my research after buying a gun in 9mm, then .40 and feeling I wanted another gun. I also researched 10mm, .45, .380 as well as the revolver rounds a bit. You really have to do your due diligence in figuring out what you want. It is your decision and your caliber once you buy it, just make sure you do yourself the favor of making sure you aren't going to want something else in a month. With how ammo and firearms have been fluctuating lately, making a bad call could be costly

[Lomotil 1]

LOMOTIL,

  CHECK THE PIC OF THE PPU THAT I SHOT INTO A PLASTIC WATER JUG, EARLIER IN THIS THREAD; LOTSA DIFFERENCE...

 

  ALSO, RED ARMY STANDARD HAS RECENTLY BEGUN IMPORTING ROMANIAN MFG. 'X25, IN STEEL CASED, BERDAN PRIMED, NON-CORRO, FMJ.

 

  CLASSIC HAS IT FOR $49.99 X 150RNDS., AIM ALSO HAS IT for $16.50 x 50rnds.

 

  JESS1344

 

I saw the pics earlier, I must've missed that they were PPU's. 

 

About the Red Army Std. rounds - I had seen those coming out of Romania, and these are slightly different than the ones that used to come from the Ukraine.  The older ones were lead core, copper-washed steel-jacketed, but the new ones are straight copper jacketed lead.  I only mention it because some ranges won't allow rounds that fail (or, I should say "pass") the magnet test, even if they're not steel-core.

 

I was going to stock up on those, but I've kinda been spending too much on toys recently...