james peek 14 Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 what is the military way of holding the axis pins in on the fcg? thanks. just thought about that and they have 3 pins. so probably no way to replicate a military axis pin retainer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 There are several. See the pics in the thread about trigger jobs linked in my signature line. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HB of CJ 1,263 Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 An AR15/M16 type stock OEM fire control group (FCG) is totally dependent upon a small rarely known or understood tiny stainless steel "J" spring that fits deep down inside the middle of the hammer along the axle/pin axis. The arm of the tiny "J" spring pushes upon/against the hammer pin. Stock OEM (original equipment manufacture) M16 hammer pins, (and trigger pins ... they are the same pin) have a groove around the middle of the pin and one or two, (varies) on each end. This prevents the hammer pin from walking out of the (usually) right side of the lower receiver. The trigger pin is held in by an arm of the hammer spring. Some after market FCG makers delete that tiny dinky pesky "J" spring .... thus the need for captive hammer and (maybe) trigger pins. HB of CJ (old coot) Hundreds of AR15 builds. Assisted gang tackled uncounted M16 rebuilds. Long ago and far away. Trying to pass literally priceless M16 and AR15 knowledge forward for the next very young non knowing generation. Suck it up Old Coot. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mullet Man 2,114 Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 ^So that brings up the next question....What firearm are you asking about? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
saltydecimator 482 Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 In before the constructive intent ban!! Haha naw. We do need a tit bit more deetz tho I like taking the original retainer spring pin thing and bending it around and using it... No wasted parts! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HB of CJ 1,263 Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 Good question Mullet Man. I think, (dangerous for me to do this) he was alluding to the hammer and trigger pins of a stock M16 rifle platform, but you raise a very important question. Heck if I know. HB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
james peek 14 Posted May 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 There are several. See the pics in the thread about trigger jobs linked in my signature line. cool been using the shepards hook or bulgarian style from what your pics in your link show. ^So that brings up the next question....What firearm are you asking about? sorry saiga 762 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
james peek 14 Posted May 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 (edited) thing is if i want to use a retainer plate. i would have to modify the the selector stop so it will clear the sear, meaning i would be installing the selector lever last. i dont like this because it seems the sear somewhat captivates the selector lever and keeps it from being rotated out of the rifle during a catastrophic event. really looking for the best military style axis pins retainer. if the bulgarians use the sheperds crook then i'm sticking with that... Edited May 13, 2015 by jrp Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HB of CJ 1,263 Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 You see what happens when I think? HB of CJ (old coot) 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mullet Man 2,114 Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 (edited) thing is if i want to use a retainer plate. i would have to modify the the selector stop so it will clear the sear, meaning i would be installing the selector lever last. i dont like this because it seems the sear somewhat captivates the selector lever and keeps it from being rotated out of the rifle during a catastrophic event. really looking for the best military style axis pins retainer. if the bulgarians use the sheperds crook then i'm sticking with that... Just my opinion.... I'd rather deal with the potential 'catastrophic failure' like you mentioned, then the safety kicking the disconnector and releasing the hammer by accident (which could potentially be far more dangerous and more likely). Plus the added benefit of the ease of use of the retainer plate. Not to mention, the dust cover retains the safety from rotating far enough north, to be removed, unless it is intentionally held out and rotated up and around it. Is there some problem with installing the safety last and removing it first? New Vepr's are coming from the MOLOT factory with retainer plates installed. Edited May 13, 2015 by Mullet Man 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spartacus 1,619 Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 >>New Vepr's are coming from the MOLOT factory with retainer plates installed. At least they waited until Kalashnikov died. I prefer the plates as well, have them in the AKs and the S-12. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 If I could have my preference, it would be the ~1CM long e-clip type things with the extended tab to make them easier to grab with pliers. Then you could be certain of security, and easily remove one pin's worth of stuff at a time. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
james peek 14 Posted May 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 thing is if i want to use a retainer plate. i would have to modify the the selector stop so it will clear the sear, meaning i would be installing the selector lever last. i dont like this because it seems the sear somewhat captivates the selector lever and keeps it from being rotated out of the rifle during a catastrophic event. really looking for the best military style axis pins retainer. if the bulgarians use the sheperds crook then i'm sticking with that... Just my opinion.... I'd rather deal with the potential 'catastrophic failure' like you mentioned, then the safety kicking the disconnector and releasing the hammer by accident (which could potentially be far more dangerous and more likely). Plus the added benefit of the ease of use of the retainer plate. Not to mention, the dust cover retains the safety from rotating far enough north, to be removed, unless it is intentionally held out and rotated up and around it. Is there some problem with installing the safety last and removing it first? New Vepr's are coming from the MOLOT factory with retainer plates installed. great info didnt think of the dust cover. what style retainer plates are the molot factory using. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
james peek 14 Posted May 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 If I could have my preference, it would be the ~1CM long e-clip type things with the extended tab to make them easier to grab with pliers. Then you could be certain of security, and easily remove one pin's worth of stuff at a time. ive seen the eclips for sale somewhere. so you have used them? they would need to be hardened. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 I have used them for other stuff, but I can't figure out what that style is called to find them in a catalogue. I've looked a few times. They are all essentially a spring, and that should be plenty hard. After all, the standard retainer is just a wire clicked into a groove. It is a retention device that is never under stress or shock load. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mullet Man 2,114 Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 thing is if i want to use a retainer plate. i would have to modify the the selector stop so it will clear the sear, meaning i would be installing the selector lever last. i dont like this because it seems the sear somewhat captivates the selector lever and keeps it from being rotated out of the rifle during a catastrophic event. really looking for the best military style axis pins retainer. if the bulgarians use the sheperds crook then i'm sticking with that... Just my opinion.... I'd rather deal with the potential 'catastrophic failure' like you mentioned, then the safety kicking the disconnector and releasing the hammer by accident (which could potentially be far more dangerous and more likely). Plus the added benefit of the ease of use of the retainer plate. Not to mention, the dust cover retains the safety from rotating far enough north, to be removed, unless it is intentionally held out and rotated up and around it. Is there some problem with installing the safety last and removing it first? New Vepr's are coming from the MOLOT factory with retainer plates installed. great info didnt think of the dust cover. what style retainer plates are the molot factory using. Basically they are Krebs type plates. Which are available for about $8ish. Don't make this more complicated than it needs to be. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 Harder than it needs to be, is exactly why I hate the shepherd's crooks. They are not simple to get in place and be sure they are locked in properly. Retainer plates for me, or the fancy e-clips please. Simple, solid, easy to tell whether or not it is in the groove. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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