mike456 12 Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 i'm looking into purchasing my first saiga, is there a particular model i should be looking for in the 7.62x51 family? thanks mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dad2142Dad 6,559 Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 Depends on what you want to do with it. Long range, short range? Might also look at a Vper since Saigas might be a little higher due the import ban Quote Link to post Share on other sites
csspecs 1,987 Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 I think the Vepr .308s are actually a slightly better deal on average.. Many have Muzzle threads under a cap, and are basically converted already.. I think the longer barreled versions (20") are better as it reduces the muzzle flash a little and gets it a little further from your head. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mike456 12 Posted July 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 didn't mention I live in NYS, besides pricing is there any other reason to go with the vepr? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
csspecs 1,987 Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 Oh... Well the standard vepr won't work for you then. It has a thumbhole stock. The stock Saiga .308 trigger kinda stinks, you can make it better and some solutions exist to deal with it. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TxAgSaiga1979 16 Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 Mike, what 308s have muzzle threads under the caps? Is there a specific way to tell without having to remove the front sight block? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mike456 12 Posted July 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 my local shop is trying to hunt down a saiga 308, what model number would i be looking for? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GaryCS 2 Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 (edited) I had two 22" Saiga 308s from LegionUSA. The unconverted one with the long barrel was an IZ-239 and the converted model with the long barrel was an IZ-239B. I don't remember what the model number was for the 16" version(s). You can buy one of these and do the conversion stuff yourself https://www.legionusa.com/russian-ak47-izsl-m-saiga-wood-rifle-7.62x39.html they were still in stock when I checked a minute ago. My experience is that none of the unconverted Saiga 308s have threaded barrels. IMO the best DIY method is to thread these is the way Brian at Dinzag recommends. Short version -> move the front sight back per the directions on his sight and thread the barrel for the 17mm muzzle device he sells. Edited July 8, 2015 by GaryCS 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mike456 12 Posted July 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 Gary what does converted vs not converted mean? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
forsaken352 235 Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 (edited) Gary what does converted vs not converted mean? Unconverted (the configuration in which it was made to legally be imported to the U.S.): Converted: The main difference between the two is trigger placement. Notice how on the first rifle, the trigger is to the very rear of the receiver. What Izhmash did is they riveted (spot welded on the .308, too) what is commonly referred to as a "sporting plate" to the bottom of the receiver. They also used an elongated claw-like trigger and a linkage to connect the trigger to the sear/disconnector (some Saiga's use a different trigger). Lastly, the new trigger guard was welded to the "sporting plate". To convert a Saiga means to remove the factory trigger components, drill/grind the rivets (spot welds, too, on the .308) holding the "sporting plate" to the receiver, punch the rivet pins, pry/remove the plate, cut a pistol grip hole (if required), then most people add a finish at this time as the bottom of the receiver underneath the plate is unfinished and the rifle will be stripped at this time. Then, a new trigger group is installed using the existing trigger hole that is found underneath the plate, a new trigger guard (many, myself included, use bolt on trigger guards.), a new stock is installed (many options there), pistol grip (again, options), etc. Basically, it's taking a desecrated AK, and bringing it back to its former glory. However, we still have to follow 922®, which basically says you can't have over a certain number of foreign made parts from their list on your rifle. So, U.S. made parts are usually used during the conversion to remain on the legal side of things. Furthermore, being as you are in New York, I'm not sure how much of this YOU can have done while staying on the legal side. Your homework is to learn about local/state laws, as well as 922®. Hope this helped. If anyone sees that I missed something or messed something up, let me know. It's been a little while. Edited July 9, 2015 by forsaken352 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GaryCS 2 Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 (edited) The IZ-239B (converted Saiga 308 that was sold by LegionUSA) looked like this: Edited July 10, 2015 by GaryCS 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HB of CJ 1,263 Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 (edited) Barrel length will be a concern. If I for one had to do it all over again, the 22 inch barrel would have been much nicer. Eventually it would have been cut back a little bit at a time to around 18.5 inches. My 16 inch barrel Saiga 308 has a nick name. "Maxine Maxblast". Big flash, noise and blast with the 16 inch barrel with the 308. Not fun to shoot. Ear protection vital. Just me. HB Edited by HB. "Dear Henry ... editing was invented for a very good reason. You need to learn how to do this"! HB Edited July 12, 2015 by HB of CJ 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
csspecs 1,987 Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Gary what does converted vs not converted mean? If you are in NY state, you are not allowed to do that within your state unless the 'safe act' is removed. The oddly shaped sporter stock is apparently still legal. Not idea but functional. For what its worth I have 10s and 7s for the Saiga .308 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GaryCS 2 Posted July 11, 2015 Report Share Posted July 11, 2015 10s and 7s ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
forsaken352 235 Posted July 11, 2015 Report Share Posted July 11, 2015 (edited) 10s and 7s ? He makes and sells magazines. I'd say they are the best you can get, too. http://stores.csspecs.com/saiga-308/ Edited July 11, 2015 by forsaken352 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mike456 12 Posted July 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2015 10s and 7s ? He makes and sells magazines. I'd say they are the best you can get, too. http://stores.csspecs.com/saiga-308/ what about drums? forsaken Gary what does converted vs not converted mean? Unconverted (the configuration in which it was made to legally be imported to the U.S.): Converted: The main difference between the two is trigger placement. Notice how on the first rifle, the trigger is to the very rear of the receiver. What Izhmash did is they riveted (spot welded on the .308, too) what is commonly referred to as a "sporting plate" to the bottom of the receiver. They also used an elongated claw-like trigger and a linkage to connect the trigger to the sear/disconnector (some Saiga's use a different trigger). Lastly, the new trigger guard was welded to the "sporting plate". To convert a Saiga means to remove the factory trigger components, drill/grind the rivets (spot welds, too, on the .308) holding the "sporting plate" to the receiver, punch the rivet pins, pry/remove the plate, cut a pistol grip hole (if required), then most people add a finish at this time as the bottom of the receiver underneath the plate is unfinished and the rifle will be stripped at this time. Then, a new trigger group is installed using the existing trigger hole that is found underneath the plate, a new trigger guard (many, myself included, use bolt on trigger guards.), a new stock is installed (many options there), pistol grip (again, options), etc. Basically, it's taking a desecrated AK, and bringing it back to its former glory. However, we still have to follow 922®, which basically says you can't have over a certain number of foreign made parts from their list on your rifle. So, U.S. made parts are usually used during the conversion to remain on the legal side of things. Furthermore, being as you are in New York, I'm not sure how much of this YOU can have done while staying on the legal side. Your homework is to learn about local/state laws, as well as 922®. Hope this helped. If anyone sees that I missed something or messed something up, let me know. It's been a little while. forsaken, that cleared a lot of things up for me, thanks for taking the time i really appreciate it Gary what does converted vs not converted mean? If you are in NY state, you are not allowed to do that within your state unless the 'safe act' is removed. The oddly shaped sporter stock is apparently still legal. Not idea but functional. For what its worth I have 10s and 7s for the Saiga .308 whats the difference between the 20 round clip and the extra hard 20 round clip Quote Link to post Share on other sites
csspecs 1,987 Posted July 12, 2015 Report Share Posted July 12, 2015 Just a different finish, black oxide is an industrial hot blue process, Black Nitride is a gas chamber surface heat treatment that also imparts a black color and rust resistance.. We are dropping black oxide from our product line up, as we have found it is cheaper to have only one finish type. Kinda like what Henry Ford used to say: "You can have any color you want, provided it's black or brown". 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HB of CJ 1,263 Posted August 8, 2015 Report Share Posted August 8, 2015 Personal point of view. Respectfully. Strongly consider the 21 inch barrel model. Then use it for awhile, get to like it, then start cutting back that long barrel an inch at a time until you get to a point where it seems best for you. Re hanging that pesky front site base and re crowning the muzzle is actually fun and easy. I am thinking here about 18.5 inches, which historically on a .308 is about as short as you want to go. Muzzle blast and flash. Then precision thread it for a good flash hider or a future expensive can. Just me. My 16.3 inch barrel Saiga 7.62X51 is very noisy with a big flash. All US Code Laws And NFA Rules Apply. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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