Back in the Lab- Conversion In The Works

[CGuns 3]

2/18

Been working on this since 9:00 AM with an Engineer buddy of mine. (His work is awesome, a leading rocket scientist).

 

What we installed and on what:

 

A. Saiga-12 Shotgun

-Installed the NEW Bulgarian MILLED stock onto the Saiga-12.

(This is significant, because the Saiga-12 uses a STAMPED receiver and requires a stamped stock, normally)

We set the stock up on the milling machine and milled the top part where the tang fits in place down about 50 thousandths.

This allowed the milled stock to fit in place up top.

The bottom part of the receiver has a rivet in place which hold the trigger guard and trigger guard tang in place to secure the bottom of the stock. We removed the trigger guard (I am converting this over to pistol grip format and needed to do this anyway) and removed the rivet, shaved an additional 12 thousandths off of the stock and it fits perfectly. Nice and snug. I am going to move it up a tad, because it sits a little low, but I will asjust at the end after the conversion. This is still a work in progress.

 

B. Bulgarian SLR MILLED RECEIVER AK- 7.62x39 caliber, muzzle brake, Steyr supplied hammer-forged barrel.

FNFALMAN talked me into buying this beast and I love it. It is made as nicely as a Galil or a Valmet IMHO. Plus, it is chambered for the real man's cartridge, the 7.62x39 true .30 cal round.

The main problem with AK's that I see is that they have a short sight radius normally, with the rear portion mounted on top of the gas block. The Israeli's realized this when building the Galil and built a serious top cover and mounted sights to it, with 2 flip aperatures for various ranges along with front and rear tritium night sights. This extends the sight radius and makes the gun more accurate.

I got the South African Galil top cover and it is doubly thick in the rear when compared with the normal Bulgarian top cover. 10-15 seconds on the bench grinder and we trimmed maybe 30 thousands off from the front to reduce the length to match and trimmed about 1/4 of the thickness off of the rear and it fits as good as factory. Nice and tight so I expect it will hold zero no problem. Now I need to install the front sight system.

I used a ACE internal milled receiver block to attach the South African Galil side folding stock. It needed to be heavily modified to work with the stock assembly and we had to measure/calculate/guesstimate out the geometries so that the stock would clear the charge handle when the stock was folded. You can rack the bolt easily with the stock folded, just like the Galil. This stock is amazing.

 

 

More mods coming soon.

 

This is a temporary pistol grip that I installed.

It is from a milled, Yugo AK.

I have a Galil grip coming.

 

South African R4/R5 (Copy of the Galil) parts, including Nylon folding stock (Lighter than Israeli steel version, yet stronger), tritium flip up night sights front and rear, standard front sight, plus top cover with rear L flip sights with 300m and 600m apertures.

I wonder what my groups will be like with these precision sights.

The folding stock is amazing. No "play" what so ever. Tight as a whistle.

Edited February 20, 2006 by CGuns

[CGuns 3]

P.S. Still need to install the lower tang on the Saiga-12 but this will happen during the conversion next week.

 

I love this stock. It is between WARSAW and NATO length. Just perfect. New Arsenal Bulgarian milled rifle stock from K-Var.

Soooo comfortable.

The rubber pad is superb.

[Wolverine 10,360]

CGuns,

 

I take it the S-12 is not one of the SB 17.2" models since you are performing surgery. You have put alot of work into both. They look good but I have a question about the S-12 buttstock. Are you intentionally trying to change the rise or sight plane by installing your buttstock that way in the S-12, or is this the only way it would fit even with the planing/shaving?

 

Wolverine

[CGuns 3]

Nope, I ordered 2 S-12's the day CDNN sold out of them, from a shop in Kentucky.

Both had side rails.

Both had 22" barrels.

I turned down one barrel to 19.5 inches.

Runs fine with everything on the "1" magnum setting, even cheap Wally World Bird Shot.

 

The easiest way to get it to fit was by the planing/shaving.

I clamped the stock into the milling machine, then used a 4-flute end mill to take it down a tad.

It only took a couple passes on the top and a very light pass on the bottom and it was in. Factory tight. I was so pleased.

It is very tight and secure, but when you remove the trigger guard, the trigger guard has a rear tang to attach to the bottom of the sporter standard stock.

I ordered a new tang from K-var and will rivet the tang in place during the pistol grip conversion.

 

Regards, CGuns

 

P.S. Thanks for the compliments. The new stock on the Saiga-12 is so comfy. I love it. Plus, no one else has this on their S-12. I thought it blended well with the SAW pistol grip and the 8 round magazine. Kinda Saiga 12K EXP03 looking.

[IndyArms 10,186]

Looks like the stock is upside down to me, by the shape of the buttpad, among other things... but hey... whatever works for ya!

 

[CGuns 3]

Looks like the stock is upside down to me, by the shape of the buttpad, among other things... but hey... whatever works for ya!

 

 

 

 

This is how K-Var had it on their website:

 

http://www.k-var.com/shop/product.php?prod...&cat=251&page=1

 

 

Also, here is a picture from Arsenal in Bulgaria.

If you look close, you can see the sling swivel in the lower part of the photo.

I think I have it right. It got me in the beginning, too!

Edited February 19, 2006 by CGuns

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Wow that's trippy lookin! Kind of like Batman's AK! If it wasn't for the sling loop I would say it is upside down. It looks like you could even mount it the other way if you were a lefty or moved the sling loop. With the extra tang inlet for the milled AK's lower tang you could flip it around. That's cool though. I like to see people do something different once in a while! Jolly good show there mate!

[CGuns 3]

Thanks Cobra!

 

The stock is really comfortable. I even tried removing the rubber shock pad at the back of the stock to see if numbnuts in the factory installed it upside down. nada. That is how it was made.

It is really comfortable. When I tried flipping the stock upside down, it was not comfortable at all and fit into the shoulder at a really strange angle.

 

What do you guys think about the TDI (Tango Down International) quality?

 

I would like to get one of the tactical lower handguards for my Arsenal AK.

 

Thanks, CGuns

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

TDI rocks! I have one of their ergonomic PGs on one of my 12s. Most comfortable AK grip I've ever seen.

[ForGreatJustice 1]

The answers pretty simple. Look at the slant angle cut into the back of the Bulgy. It's near 90 degrees to the bottom of the receiver, if not more. But one of the idiosyncracies of the Saiga line is that the back of the receiver is LESS than 90 degrees to the bottom. Only slightly more so than many AKs, so it's not often a problem with many AK stocks. But in this case, I think you may want to adjust the engagement angle on the stock, or mill the back of the S12 in order to get a better fit/look. That is, if you care. I think it's possible the angle may interfere with shooting.

Edited February 19, 2006 by ForGreatJustice

[CGuns 3]

The answers pretty simple. Look at the slant angle cut into the back of the Bulgy. It's near 90 degrees to the bottom of the receiver, if not more. But one of the idiosyncracies of the Saiga line is that the back of the receiver is LESS than 90 degrees to the bottom. Only slightly more so than many AKs, so it's not often a problem with many AK stocks. But in this case, I think you may want to adjust the engagement angle on the stock, or mill the back of the S12 in order to get a better fit/look. That is, if you care. I think it's possible the angle may interfere with shooting.

 

 

Good point!

 

I did not catch that!

 

Thank you.

[BattleRifleG3 16]

As an engineer by training, I'm tempted to make engineer jokes. But as a fan of higher buttstocks, I'll give you my compliments.

 

Batman's AK - I like that one. :thumsup:

Edited February 20, 2006 by BattleRifleG3

[CGuns 3]

As an engineer by training, I'm tempted to make engineer jokes. But as a fan of higher buttstocks, I'll give you my compliments.

 

Batman's AK - I like that one. :thumsup:

 

 

 

What and where is Batman's AK?

 

What engineering jokes were you going to make?

 

I think the conversions, though not complete, were carried out non-invasively. The attention to detail is superb as well.

Edited February 20, 2006 by CGuns

[ForGreatJustice 1]

What and where is Batman's AK?

 

What engineering jokes were you going to make?

 

I think the conversions, though not complete, were carried out non-evasively. The attention to detail is superb as well.

 

 

Um....please forgive me if I'm mistaken, but if you weren't raised in America, you might not know that Batman is a very OLD superhero from American comic books. The stock appears to be simliar to his peculiar aesthetics.

[CGuns 3]

You are excused.

I am quite familiar with who Batman is.

 

Given the names members use on this forum, I was trying to determine if this is a member and if so, what similarities his gun had with mine.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

"What and where is Batman's AK?"

 

Bwahahahaha!

[CGuns 3]

"What and where is Batman's AK?"

 

Bwahahahaha!

 

 

 

Bwahahahahahahah!

[dinzag 31]

That looks pretty cool I must say! I haven't seen a milled

stock set modded for a Saiga before. They're cheaper than

most stamped receiver sets. Very unique! As said

above, I'd tweak the angle a tad.

 

I say make it a Saiga Shark-12.

 

Put some gills on your HG like Jeric's(?)

 

...and add one of these puppies...

 

...or get one of Tony's shark-brakes.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

YEAH that would be wicked! You could call it JAWS! Please post pics when it's done.

The rifle looks very nice to BTW.

 

Dang Jeric I thought that "gilled" style HG was something I came up with. We are both thinking along the same lines! A chop saw beats the hell out of freehanding it with a dremel.

 

Hey back to the Batman thing for a sec.

Here's a rare view of him with some of his Austrian hardware!

 

[dinzag 31]

What, no grappling hook attachment?

 

[Thunderbear 2]

YEAH that would be wicked! You could call it JAWS! Please post pics when it's done.

The rifle looks very nice to BTW.

 

Dang Jeric I thought that "gilled" style HG was something I came up with. We are both thinking along the same lines! A chop saw beats the hell out of freehanding it with a dremel.

 

Hey back to the Batman thing for a sec.

Here's a rare view of him with some of his Austrian hardware!

 

 

 

Boooo!

 

Batman's got terrible taste in Austrian firearms. And we all know Bruce Wayne has impeccable taste.

 

I submit the Bat would carry this:

 

 

 

But he could probably afford to do without the Davidson's warranty.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

... SOME of his Austrian hardware!

 

[CGuns 3]

That looks pretty cool I must say! I haven't seen a milled

stock set modded for a Saiga before. They're cheaper than

most stamped receiver sets. Very unique! As said

above, I'd tweak the angle a tad.

 

I say make it a Saiga Shark-12.

 

Put some gills on your HG like Jeric's(?)

 

 

...and add one of these puppies...

 

 

...or get one of Tony's shark-brakes.

 

Thanks for the kind words!

 

Yes, I wanted it to be different. I really like the look of the stock.

And, no one has done it before

I also liked the fact that the "gills" on the stock matched reasonably well with the countours on the 8 round magazines and on the SAW grip from Tapco. It ties things together.

 

The Shark 12 is a fantastic idea! Consider it done!

I wanted to add a "cutting teeth" flashhider or muzzlebrake to the gun for close-quarters work. In the highly unlikely event of a jam, the fangs on the front can be used as a blunt trauma impact weapon to damage the threat.

 

The gills on the handguard are a great idea. I might switch out to regular Bulgarian handguards for the Saiga 12K EPX 030 look.

 

Let me know what you think on that.

 

Thanks so much,

 

CGuns

 

 

YEAH that would be wicked! You could call it JAWS! Please post pics when it's done.

The rifle looks very nice to BTW.

 

Dang Jeric I thought that "gilled" style HG was something I came up with. We are both thinking along the same lines! A chop saw beats the hell out of freehanding it with a dremel.

 

Hey back to the Batman thing for a sec.

Here's a rare view of him with some of his Austrian hardware!

 

 

 

 

1. Wow Cobra, it sounds like you are excited about my S-12. That means a lot, especially after I looked at your conversion for your baby, the AKS-12. Thanks so much for the kind words and encouragement.

 

2. We have a full machine shop with CNC equipment, mills/Lathes, MIG welders, TIG welders, Laser CNC welders, etc...(I am going to laser some stuff on my S-12, according to my buddy)

You like the gilled handguard look, too? How would you do them?

 

3. Love 'The Bat' with the Austrian gear.

I am a Steyr-holic and yes indeed, I have the Batman edition M series!

 

CGuns

 

Cobra- Thanks again for the kind words about my Kalashnikov rifle.

That folding stock is awesome.

Robarm says they are going to do a folding stock for AK's in the near future and that it will not require the user to perform gymnastics to close and or open it, like the Galil stock.

They are on crack, because the Galil stock opens and closes so easily. I love it. Best folder in the world, even easier than the FAL Para Folder.

 

Thanks Tony for measuring the stocks, too!

 

I gotta send Tony my AK to install the front Galil sight system with Tritium flip up. :)

Edited February 20, 2006 by CGuns

[CGuns 3]

That looks pretty cool I must say! I haven't seen a milled

stock set modded for a Saiga before. They're cheaper than

most stamped receiver sets. Very unique! As said

above, I'd tweak the angle a tad.

 

I say make it a Saiga Shark-12.

 

...and add one of these puppies...

 

 

 

 

And where do I get one of those?

[6500rpm 670]

You'll have to travel to the other side of the world and make nice with the Finnish dudes if you want one of thos tank brakes, but hell, they all seem like a nice bunch. Hey, good to see your Bulgie/Galil cross breed is coming along. Did you find a front gas block, or is Tony going to fab you something for the front sight? Also, what are you going to do with the AK's rear sight asm? The stock conversion looks like it came out fine....Galil folders rule and I still like RH folders better than LH.

As far as tha Batman thing, I'm not touching it as all super hero's in spandex have issues in my eyes, unless one is Jennifer Gardner....Whoa

[CGuns 3]

You'll have to travel to the other side of the world and make nice with the Finnish dudes if you want one of thos tank brakes, but hell, they all seem like a nice bunch. Hey, good to see your Bulgie/Galil cross breed is coming along. Did you find a front gas block, or is Tony going to fab you something for the front sight? Also, what are you going to do with the AK's rear sight asm? The stock conversion looks like it came out fine....Galil folders rule and I still like RH folders better than LH.

As far as tha Batman thing, I'm not touching it as all super hero's in spandex have issues in my eyes, unless one is Jennifer Gardner....Whoa

 

 

Hey bud,

 

I was just about to PM this thread to you. Glad you found it.

 

The Galil stock conversion went well. Came out more than fine. It is mounted even better than factory, with 1/4 inch fittings using the locking block on the stock as a quasi-nut assembly. It is rigid as hell and I would not mind using it to knock someone over the head with.

I used an ACE Stocks LTD internal receiver block and it is HEAVILY modified to fit the stock.

 

As to the front sight.....this is going to be interesting.

Galil gas blocks are hard to find. I cannot find them.

With my standard AK front sight at the highest elevation position, the gun is shooting 2 feet high at 25 yards. I tested it today.

What do you think I should do with the AK rear sight system? Just remove the assembly on top of the gas block?

The Galil front sight is both windage and elevation adjustable. The rear sight is only elevation adjustable. I bet Tony will come up with something slick. I really like the Bulgarian-Galil hybrid and I like that it shoots .30 cal rounds.

 

Thanks for your help, too!

 

CGuns