Hammer problem - New Saiga .308 16"

[mcawley27 0]

This is my first post here - forum is much appreciated for wealth of knowledge! I just picked up a brand new Saiga .308 and took it to the range today. Used the factory 8-rd magazine and some Wolf Silver Bears for getting acquainted with my new friend. My very first shot fired and felt good, but the trigger was limp for the next shot, like the hammer had not been cocked. I pulled the magazine and ejected a LIVE round from the chamber, indicating to me that it had cycled correctly. Inserted magazine and tried again - did exactly the same thing. Unloaded rifle, removed the dust guard, and checked the condition of the hammer. I found that it was in fact resting in a cocked condition. However, when pulling the trigger, I could see that it was not releasing the hammer, kind of like there was a fraction of a millimeter of steel that needed to be milled off or something. I also found that I could firmly push forward on the trigger (toward front sight) and the hammer would "click" upwards into a new slightly higher position, which would then release correctly when you pull the trigger. A cycle of the bolt would bring the hammer back into cocked position again, but trigger pull would not release hammer until I pushed forward on the trigger again. Anybody else ever encounter this type of behavior with a brand new rifle? I hope that it is just new and needs more breaking in, but any feedback would be appreciated.

[kresk 10,063]

Make sure the hammer and trigger pins are all the way in, and also confirm that the hammer spring arms are resting on the trigger reset properly. Could well be something else though. Others will chime in.

 

Welcome to the forum!

[slipshod 0]

That is the same thing mine did...brand new out of the box. Very UNSAFE! Live round in the chamber and you pull the trigger and nothing happens. My trigger sticks back due to weak spring pressure and clicks when you have to manually push it forward. JUNK and DANGEROUS. I'm sending mine back first thing Monday. Mine is the Saiga 16" with skeleton stock and yes I just bought it this week.

 

Did you buy it from one of the online dealers listed on the Russian Saiga site?

Edited October 5, 2008 by slipshod

[buckandaquarterquarterstaff 5]

It's possible that the trigger return spring was not installed, or a weak one was substituted. You should be able to feel if it's there by dry firing. Unloaded of course. Once the hammer pops up (ie the rifle would fire if loaded), then you should be able to feel spring pressure returning the trigger forward. Then, check if there's any obstruction by pulling off the dust cover, removing the piston/bolt, pull (fire - unloaded of course), keep the trigger pulled, manually recock the hammer, all the way back so the trigger is holding it from popping up again to the "ready to fire position", then let go of the trigger. The trigger should move itself forward, allowing the hammer to pop up a bit to the "ready to fire" position.

 

That said, if you're pulling tight on the trigger as it fires and don't release it, then it should operate exactly as you're describing (though it should be returning itself forward if you let go of it). That little bit of material you describe as needing to be cleared to have the hammer pop up to the second position keeps the rifle a semi auto (and no, the full auto's aren't just like what you have with just a little grinding).

 

If the spring isn't the culprit, then the angle of the notch that holds the hammer down when the trigger is held back (as the hammer is recocked), may be cut incorrectly or there is a burr edge that needs wearing off.

 

Overall, this is likely an item that will correct itself with some wear in. I'd try a couple hundred rounds of dry firing to see if it's just a burr somewhere along the hammer, or in the "trigger notch." You can always go through the trouble of sending it back, and a couple hundred dry fires won't cost you anything.

[mcawley27 0]

That is the same thing mine did...brand new out of the box. Very UNSAFE! Live round in the chamber and you pull the trigger and nothing happens. My trigger sticks back due to weak spring pressure and clicks when you have to manually push it forward. JUNK and DANGEROUS. I'm sending mine back first thing Monday. Mine is the Saiga 16" with skeleton stock and yes I just bought it this week.

 

Did you buy it from one of the online dealers listed on the Russian Saiga site?

 

 

Mine is also the 16", but with regular rifle stock. I found the behavior to be very inconsistent - first 20-30 rounds had to be fired using the "push trigger forward" method, but then it loosened up and worked fine for about 20 more rounds. After a quick target inspection, I came back to the line and loaded another another magazine and it started doing it again. Third magazine full worked fine though. Weird. I feel that working it gently with an emery cloth or fine-cut diamond file would solve the problem, but I am not a gunsmith by no means. I don't want to make matters worse by doing the opposite of what needs to be done or such.

 

I bought mine online from DD's Ranch - brand new and in the box. DD's Ranch is great, by the way!

[mcawley27 0]

It's possible that the trigger return spring was not installed, or a weak one was substituted. You should be able to feel if it's there by dry firing. Unloaded of course. Once the hammer pops up (ie the rifle would fire if loaded), then you should be able to feel spring pressure returning the trigger forward. Then, check if there's any obstruction by pulling off the dust cover, removing the piston/bolt, pull (fire - unloaded of course), keep the trigger pulled, manually recock the hammer, all the way back so the trigger is holding it from popping up again to the "ready to fire position", then let go of the trigger. The trigger should move itself forward, allowing the hammer to pop up a bit to the "ready to fire" position.

 

That said, if you're pulling tight on the trigger as it fires and don't release it, then it should operate exactly as you're describing (though it should be returning itself forward if you let go of it). That little bit of material you describe as needing to be cleared to have the hammer pop up to the second position keeps the rifle a semi auto (and no, the full auto's aren't just like what you have with just a little grinding).

 

If the spring isn't the culprit, then the angle of the notch that holds the hammer down when the trigger is held back (as the hammer is recocked), may be cut incorrectly or there is a burr edge that needs wearing off.

 

Overall, this is likely an item that will correct itself with some wear in. I'd try a couple hundred rounds of dry firing to see if it's just a burr somewhere along the hammer, or in the "trigger notch." You can always go through the trouble of sending it back, and a couple hundred dry fires won't cost you anything.

 

 

For some reason, dry firing always seem to work correctly. The behavior only happens after firing it at least once, which makes me think it may also be related to heat. It is very inconsistent.

 

I've included a couple of pictures of the trigger assembly and springs. I don't have anything to compare to, so please tell me if you see anything out of whack.

 

Also, if the factory spring is a little weak, could it (the arms) be bent slightly downward to increase the tension?

[mcawley27 0]

It's possible that the trigger return spring was not installed, or a weak one was substituted. You should be able to feel if it's there by dry firing. Unloaded of course. Once the hammer pops up (ie the rifle would fire if loaded), then you should be able to feel spring pressure returning the trigger forward. Then, check if there's any obstruction by pulling off the dust cover, removing the piston/bolt, pull (fire - unloaded of course), keep the trigger pulled, manually recock the hammer, all the way back so the trigger is holding it from popping up again to the "ready to fire position", then let go of the trigger. The trigger should move itself forward, allowing the hammer to pop up a bit to the "ready to fire" position.

 

That said, if you're pulling tight on the trigger as it fires and don't release it, then it should operate exactly as you're describing (though it should be returning itself forward if you let go of it). That little bit of material you describe as needing to be cleared to have the hammer pop up to the second position keeps the rifle a semi auto (and no, the full auto's aren't just like what you have with just a little grinding).

 

If the spring isn't the culprit, then the angle of the notch that holds the hammer down when the trigger is held back (as the hammer is recocked), may be cut incorrectly or there is a burr edge that needs wearing off.

 

Overall, this is likely an item that will correct itself with some wear in. I'd try a couple hundred rounds of dry firing to see if it's just a burr somewhere along the hammer, or in the "trigger notch." You can always go through the trouble of sending it back, and a couple hundred dry fires won't cost you anything.

 

Sorry, posted the same pic twice. here's the other:

 

 

For some reason, dry firing always seem to work correctly. The behavior only happens after firing it at least once, which makes me think it may also be related to heat. It is very inconsistent.

 

I've included a couple of pictures of the trigger assembly and springs. I don't have anything to compare to, so please tell me if you see anything out of whack.

 

Also, if the factory spring is a little weak, could it (the arms) be bent slightly downward to increase the tension?

[Bayoupiper 738]

Well I know a couple of people that won't be around here long..................

[mcawley27 0]

Well I know a couple of people that won't be around here long..................

 

Guess I don't know what you mean?

[Bayoupiper 738]

Don't worry about it.

[slipshod 0]

Well I know a couple of people that won't be around here long..................

 

Guess I don't know what you mean?

 

I think they are saying if you bring up quality control and SAFETY issues with brand new Saiga's then they may delete your account and prohibit you from posting. Any rifle, new out of the box, sold in the USA, should NOT require "bending", "emery cloth", "filing" or other such hack procedures to make it work properly and SAFELY. A live round in the chamber...hammer BACK...trigger locked back and needing to MANUALLY pushed FORWARD?? Are you kidding me?? These rifles are obviously DEFECTIVE and should be returned. I'm curious as to the serial number range your defective rifle is. PM me with the last few digits if you don't want to post it and I will share you mine. The best bet is to return this rifle and get a replacement or a refund. AK type rifles should work, out of the box, covered in mud/sand/snow without so much as a FTF.

[slipshod 0]

It's possible that the trigger return spring was not installed, or a weak one was substituted. You should be able to feel if it's there by dry firing. Unloaded of course. Once the hammer pops up (ie the rifle would fire if loaded), then you should be able to feel spring pressure returning the trigger forward. Then, check if there's any obstruction by pulling off the dust cover, removing the piston/bolt, pull (fire - unloaded of course), keep the trigger pulled, manually recock the hammer, all the way back so the trigger is holding it from popping up again to the "ready to fire position", then let go of the trigger. The trigger should move itself forward, allowing the hammer to pop up a bit to the "ready to fire" position.

 

That said, if you're pulling tight on the trigger as it fires and don't release it, then it should operate exactly as you're describing (though it should be returning itself forward if you let go of it). That little bit of material you describe as needing to be cleared to have the hammer pop up to the second position keeps the rifle a semi auto (and no, the full auto's aren't just like what you have with just a little grinding).

 

If the spring isn't the culprit, then the angle of the notch that holds the hammer down when the trigger is held back (as the hammer is recocked), may be cut incorrectly or there is a burr edge that needs wearing off.

 

Overall, this is likely an item that will correct itself with some wear in. I'd try a couple hundred rounds of dry firing to see if it's just a burr somewhere along the hammer, or in the "trigger notch." You can always go through the trouble of sending it back, and a couple hundred dry fires won't cost you anything.

 

Let me get this right... A rifle is being sold in the USA that may or may not have the following problems: "return spring was not installed" or a "weak one was substituted" or may have and "angle of the notch that holds the hammer back may be improperly cut" or a "burr edge that needs wearing off" and of course may need "a couple of hundred rounds of dry firing" to make it right? This rifle is a DEATH TRAP! You guys make me sick. GONE FOR GOOD!

[mcawley27 0]

Well I know a couple of people that won't be around here long..................

 

Guess I don't know what you mean?

 

I think they are saying if you bring up quality control and SAFETY issues with brand new Saiga's then they may delete your account and prohibit you from posting. Any rifle, new out of the box, sold in the USA, should NOT require "bending", "emery cloth", "filing" or other such hack procedures to make it work properly and SAFELY. A live round in the chamber...hammer BACK...trigger locked back and needing to MANUALLY pushed FORWARD?? Are you kidding me?? These rifles are obviously DEFECTIVE and should be returned. I'm curious as to the serial number range your defective rifle is. PM me with the last few digits if you don't want to post it and I will share you mine. The best bet is to return this rifle and get a replacement or a refund. AK type rifles should work, out of the box, covered in mud/sand/snow without so much as a FTF.

 

Well, that seems a little harsh on someone with a interest in fixing a problem. My decision to purchase a Saiga was made based on several weeks worth of gleaning through these forums to get an idea of what people think of them. Thought maybe it would be the best place to ask.

 

I would hate to throw out the baby with the bathwater, especially considering the hassle I went through to get a 16" model for less than $500.00. I'm willing to poke a few more holes and see if it works itself out before sending her back. Thanks for the followup - appreciate the comments.

[Bayoupiper 738]

Let me get this right... A rifle is being sold in the USA that may or may not have the following problems: "return spring was not installed" or a "weak one was substituted" or may have and "angle of the notch that holds the hammer back may be improperly cut" or a "burr edge that needs wearing off" and of course may need "a couple of hundred rounds of dry firing" to make it right? This rifle is a DEATH TRAP! You guys make me sick. GONE FOR GOOD!

 

 

 

Oh no.

We've gone and run off another AK expert..................

[Bayoupiper 738]

Well, that seems a little harsh on someone with a interest in fixing a problem. My decision to purchase a Saiga was made based on several weeks worth of gleaning through these forums to get an idea of what people think of them. Thought maybe it would be the best place to ask.

 

I would hate to throw out the baby with the bathwater, especially considering the hassle I went through to get a 16" model for less than $500.00. I'm willing to poke a few more holes and see if it works itself out before sending her back. Thanks for the followup - appreciate the comments.

 

 

And you are correct.

There are many people here who can, and will help you out.

 

 

I personally can't because I changed mine from the sporter configuration so it has a Tapco fcg in it.

[Zebra 0]

i guess i'll throw my two cents in

 

i feel your concerns about having a safe product. i've had some weapons not function properly fresh out of the box.

 

i really couldn't tell you if my .308 out the box cycled properly. mine got the pistol grip conversion as soon as it came out of the box and works flawlessly.

 

maybe you should take it back to your dealer possibly they can offer you an exchange, your money back or send it off for some warranty work.

 

if you plan on doing a pistol grip conversion as most do on this site i'd keep the rifle. most of the parts that you seem to be having problems with will be replaced with new parts anyway to be inline with the 922R ruling.

[aslyguy 5]

well i am adding my 2 cents for what its worth i may be new to join the site but i have used the site for quite some time and the bottom line is no product is always 100% perfect and dont give the bullsh** line well for what i paid i dont care if its a 2 cent peice or a half million dollar car stuff breaks and low quality parts get through apply to every day stuff anytime somebody cuts a corner stuff gets by the 20 mins u spent in the crapper thinking about how u got screwed u missed something somwhere or u missed something at your job or maybe the thieving guy working on your particular guns decided he needed a new spring for his gun at home like u needed a new pen that you stole from grandma girdy at the texaco around the corner from your house face it sh** happens and your problem came from immeditly attacking all firearms made from the company on a forum dedicated to them did u honestly think all would accept u with holsterd arms instead of drawn ones if its questions you have fine if its a fight u want fine to keep treating the people the way u r if its help then tone it down and help u shall recieve

[buckandaquarterquarterstaff 5]

OK, First off... Given the nature of the problem, the best advice is to have it looked at by a professional gunsmith and not put any live ammo through it until you are satisfied it's resolved. Follow any advice given here entirely at your own risk. Do not do any sort of work on the rifle while it is loaded, and always point the muzzle in a safe direction even if it is not loaded...

 

Dry firing so the disconnector engages the hammer will eventually polish between the two surfaces. Your pics do not show any apparent problem with how the rifle is put together (from what I can see). I'd try "dry firing" it a couple hundred times (pushing the hammer down far enough so the disconnector is engaged before the hook is - take the receiver cover and main gas piston return spring out as you did to take the pictures). My guess is you have a rough spot somewhere in between the disconnector and hammer. Actually you don't need to let the hammer fly each time, just get the disconnector and hammer to engage, then let go of the trigger so the hook engages the hammer up from the disconnector. Then repeat pushing hammer down and pulling the trigger while you re-engage with the disconnector. You probably can get the disconnector to rub against the hammer with just the pressure of the trigger through the disconnector and hammer spring so you can feel if it's smooth or rough each time. Inconsistency would indicate a burr or other source of a hangup.

 

In your pics we can't see the bottom part of the disconnector where it engages the hammer, so this is just speculation. After your dry firing exercise, then put a drop of oil on the end of the hammer where the disconnector would engage it. Reassemble the rifle and try live fire with only one round. There need not be a second round in the gun to see if you have the same problem after the first round is safely fired downrange, safely dry firing as a follow up (muzzle pointed safely down range) to see if the problem continues.

 

The following link is to the tapco g2 install instructions. It's not exactly the same as your trigger, but yours has the same parts (just your trigger is much longer and set back). It will help you familiarize you with the parts. These things are pretty simple once you're oriented. There are only so many possible problems you could be having in your trigger group.

 

http://www.tapco.com/html/instructions/G2%20Instructions.pdf

 

And oh by the way, you have every right to be pissed if a new gun doesn't work out of the box. It's just that so many people here have had lemons that we're (for the most part) more interested in dealing with it, than getting pissed off about it. Even in the "good old US" there are variations in parts of products, and to believe all manufacturing is perfect (anywhere in the world) is completely naive. Somehow, we manage to hold a grudge without threatening a lawsuit, what a concept...

Edited October 6, 2008 by buckandaquarterquarterstaff

[buckandaquarterquarterstaff 5]

It's possible that the trigger return spring was not installed, or a weak one was substituted. You should be able to feel if it's there by dry firing. Unloaded of course. Once the hammer pops up (ie the rifle would fire if loaded), then you should be able to feel spring pressure returning the trigger forward. Then, check if there's any obstruction by pulling off the dust cover, removing the piston/bolt, pull (fire - unloaded of course), keep the trigger pulled, manually recock the hammer, all the way back so the trigger is holding it from popping up again to the "ready to fire position", then let go of the trigger. The trigger should move itself forward, allowing the hammer to pop up a bit to the "ready to fire" position.

 

That said, if you're pulling tight on the trigger as it fires and don't release it, then it should operate exactly as you're describing (though it should be returning itself forward if you let go of it). That little bit of material you describe as needing to be cleared to have the hammer pop up to the second position keeps the rifle a semi auto (and no, the full auto's aren't just like what you have with just a little grinding).

 

If the spring isn't the culprit, then the angle of the notch that holds the hammer down when the trigger is held back (as the hammer is recocked), may be cut incorrectly or there is a burr edge that needs wearing off.

 

Overall, this is likely an item that will correct itself with some wear in. I'd try a couple hundred rounds of dry firing to see if it's just a burr somewhere along the hammer, or in the "trigger notch." You can always go through the trouble of sending it back, and a couple hundred dry fires won't cost you anything.

 

Let me get this right... A rifle is being sold in the USA that may or may not have the following problems: "return spring was not installed" or a "weak one was substituted" or may have and "angle of the notch that holds the hammer back may be improperly cut" or a "burr edge that needs wearing off" and of course may need "a couple of hundred rounds of dry firing" to make it right? This rifle is a DEATH TRAP! You guys make me sick. GONE FOR GOOD!

 

Gone for good indeed...

[headshot 52]

Well I know a couple of people that won't be around here long..................

 

Guess I don't know what you mean?

 

I think they are saying if you bring up quality control and SAFETY issues with brand new Saiga's then they may delete your account and prohibit you from posting. Any rifle, new out of the box, sold in the USA, should NOT require "bending", "emery cloth", "filing" or other such hack procedures to make it work properly and SAFELY. A live round in the chamber...hammer BACK...trigger locked back and needing to MANUALLY pushed FORWARD?? Are you kidding me?? These rifles are obviously DEFECTIVE and should be returned. I'm curious as to the serial number range your defective rifle is. PM me with the last few digits if you don't want to post it and I will share you mine. The best bet is to return this rifle and get a replacement or a refund. AK type rifles should work, out of the box, covered in mud/sand/snow without so much as a FTF.

 

 

No, he meant that you will be too sensitive to all the flaming you get for being a noob, and not knowing how to correct FCG problems, and will therefore abandon the forums cuz sticks and stones hurt your bones.

 

Stick around, search the forums, and learn stuff. You will be an expert in saigas in two months if you pay attention. That is no bullshit.

 

BTW, I will point out the obvious and say that the saigas ARE NOT standard AKs. There are modified trigger parts in the case of saigas, and especially the 308.

Edited October 6, 2008 by headshot

[headshot 52]

It's possible that the trigger return spring was not installed, or a weak one was substituted. You should be able to feel if it's there by dry firing. Unloaded of course. Once the hammer pops up (ie the rifle would fire if loaded), then you should be able to feel spring pressure returning the trigger forward. Then, check if there's any obstruction by pulling off the dust cover, removing the piston/bolt, pull (fire - unloaded of course), keep the trigger pulled, manually recock the hammer, all the way back so the trigger is holding it from popping up again to the "ready to fire position", then let go of the trigger. The trigger should move itself forward, allowing the hammer to pop up a bit to the "ready to fire" position.

 

That said, if you're pulling tight on the trigger as it fires and don't release it, then it should operate exactly as you're describing (though it should be returning itself forward if you let go of it). That little bit of material you describe as needing to be cleared to have the hammer pop up to the second position keeps the rifle a semi auto (and no, the full auto's aren't just like what you have with just a little grinding).

 

If the spring isn't the culprit, then the angle of the notch that holds the hammer down when the trigger is held back (as the hammer is recocked), may be cut incorrectly or there is a burr edge that needs wearing off.

 

Overall, this is likely an item that will correct itself with some wear in. I'd try a couple hundred rounds of dry firing to see if it's just a burr somewhere along the hammer, or in the "trigger notch." You can always go through the trouble of sending it back, and a couple hundred dry fires won't cost you anything.

 

Let me get this right... A rifle is being sold in the USA that may or may not have the following problems: "return spring was not installed" or a "weak one was substituted" or may have and "angle of the notch that holds the hammer back may be improperly cut" or a "burr edge that needs wearing off" and of course may need "a couple of hundred rounds of dry firing" to make it right? This rifle is a DEATH TRAP! You guys make me sick. GONE FOR GOOD!

 

Good. You're a complete idiot if you don't see the difference in a saiga FCG and a standard AK. You lack basic knowledge of how the FCG functions anyway. If you need to flee just because you can't admit you don't know what you are talking about, then good riddance. Of course you are welcome to stay if you want to learn the difference.

 

Sorry for being so blunt, but it isn't hard to learn how to build these things...

[Bayoupiper 738]

well i am adding my 2 cents for what its worth i may be new to join the site but i have used the site for quite some time and the bottom line is no product is always 100% perfect and dont give the bullsh** line well for what i paid i dont care if its a 2 cent peice or a half million dollar car stuff breaks and low quality parts get through apply to every day stuff anytime somebody cuts a corner stuff gets by the 20 mins u spent in the crapper thinking about how u got screwed u missed something somwhere or u missed something at your job or maybe the thieving guy working on your particular guns decided he needed a new spring for his gun at home like u needed a new pen that you stole from grandma girdy at the texaco around the corner from your house face it sh** happens and your problem came from immeditly attacking all firearms made from the company on a forum dedicated to them did u honestly think all would accept u with holsterd arms instead of drawn ones if its questions you have fine if its a fight u want fine to keep treating the people the way u r if its help then tone it down and help u shall recieve

 

 

You are going to fit in here just fine!

Welcome!

[Bayoupiper 738]

Remember that they had to "sporterize" the rifle to get it into this country in the first place.

I had to laugh at the rig job when I pulled the factory trigger group out of my .308!

And I think they know that 99% of these rifles are going to be modified so they put something in there that would pass muster.

[cellsworth 21]

Between "slipshod's" screen name, comments, and unwillingness to consider helpful suggestions, it is quite clear that he only came to the forum to trash Saigas.

 

System32 at least seems interested in learning and resolving the problem. It should be an easy fix. If you don't want to mess with it, return it to RAA. Their customer service is excellent.

[mcawley27 0]

It's possible that the trigger return spring was not installed, or a weak one was substituted. You should be able to feel if it's there by dry firing. Unloaded of course. Once the hammer pops up (ie the rifle would fire if loaded), then you should be able to feel spring pressure returning the trigger forward. Then, check if there's any obstruction by pulling off the dust cover, removing the piston/bolt, pull (fire - unloaded of course), keep the trigger pulled, manually recock the hammer, all the way back so the trigger is holding it from popping up again to the "ready to fire position", then let go of the trigger. The trigger should move itself forward, allowing the hammer to pop up a bit to the "ready to fire" position.

 

That said, if you're pulling tight on the trigger as it fires and don't release it, then it should operate exactly as you're describing (though it should be returning itself forward if you let go of it). That little bit of material you describe as needing to be cleared to have the hammer pop up to the second position keeps the rifle a semi auto (and no, the full auto's aren't just like what you have with just a little grinding).

 

If the spring isn't the culprit, then the angle of the notch that holds the hammer down when the trigger is held back (as the hammer is recocked), may be cut incorrectly or there is a burr edge that needs wearing off.

 

Overall, this is likely an item that will correct itself with some wear in. I'd try a couple hundred rounds of dry firing to see if it's just a burr somewhere along the hammer, or in the "trigger notch." You can always go through the trouble of sending it back, and a couple hundred dry fires won't cost you anything.

 

 

Wow - didn't mean to set off a firestorm

 

I followed your suggestion of working the bolt with the trigger pulled all the way back and I duplicated the problem right off the bat! I could definitely tell that the hammer was being just slightly hung up on something as I released the trigger. Funny that I could dry fire, release the trigger, then cycle the bolt and it would not happen though. Anyway, I thoroughly degreased the trigger assembly and the hammer contact points, then manually worked the bolt numerous times (like hundreds) until I could visibly see the black finish working off of the edge of the hammer, like it was a bur. I degreased that spot and worked the bolt several more times until about midnight last night (fingers sore) -- I'm happy to say that it seems to have worked! I can't get to the range to test it live for a couple of weeks, but I'm pretty confident that it will work fine now. Thanks for the advice!

[aslyguy 5]

I dont think it was you that set it off it just kinda happened that u were pulled into the middle with your post after some comments and attitudes were flared already

 

Good luck with your rifle and happy shooting

[IndyArms 10,186]

I think they are saying if you bring up quality control and SAFETY issues with brand new Saiga's then they may delete your account and prohibit you from posting. Any rifle, new out of the box, sold in the USA, should NOT require "bending", "emery cloth", "filing" or other such hack procedures to make it work properly and SAFELY. A live round in the chamber...hammer BACK...trigger locked back and needing to MANUALLY pushed FORWARD?? Are you kidding me?? These rifles are obviously DEFECTIVE and should be returned. I'm curious as to the serial number range your defective rifle is. PM me with the last few digits if you don't want to post it and I will share you mine. The best bet is to return this rifle and get a replacement or a refund. AK type rifles should work, out of the box, covered in mud/sand/snow without so much as a FTF.

 

No dude... ( and I reply to this NOW

 

No one has EVER been banned or limited from posting because they had a technical problem. Just the trolls that stir the turd do...

 

As others have stated... Some things need to be broken in... its called tight tolerances.. ( Imagine THAT on an AK!! LOL) but yes, its true!

 

As the OP stated... he seems to have fixed the issue by doing just what he was told... working it in...

 

 

Let me get this right... A rifle is being sold in the USA that may or may not have the following problems: "return spring was not installed" or a "weak one was substituted" or may have and "angle of the notch that holds the hammer back may be improperly cut" or a "burr edge that needs wearing off" and of course may need "a couple of hundred rounds of dry firing" to make it right? This rifle is a DEATH TRAP! You guys make me sick. GONE FOR GOOD!

 

Hmm... where I work we have a term for folks like you... WHINEASSED PUSSIES.

 

I would doubt VERY HIGHLY that *ANY SAIGA **EVER** CAME TO THE USA* without a trigger return spring installed.

 

Although it is slightly possible that there is a burr on the edge of the hammer...

 

My recommendation is to read up in the tech section, not get a rip in your skirt and run to your mommy crying like a whipped red headed stepchild.

 

Seems to me the OP figured out the problem by paying attention to what the others here told him... and most likely fixed it.

 

I would bet he did! and imagine this... he did it with NO WHINING, no crying, and no bullshit negative propaganda.

 

Grow a set.

 

 

[Bayoupiper 738]

But Indy, the OP doesn't have 20 YEARS experience with AKs either!

[buckandaquarterquarterstaff 5]

It's possible that the trigger return spring was not installed, or a weak one was substituted. You should be able to feel if it's there by dry firing. Unloaded of course. Once the hammer pops up (ie the rifle would fire if loaded), then you should be able to feel spring pressure returning the trigger forward. Then, check if there's any obstruction by pulling off the dust cover, removing the piston/bolt, pull (fire - unloaded of course), keep the trigger pulled, manually recock the hammer, all the way back so the trigger is holding it from popping up again to the "ready to fire position", then let go of the trigger. The trigger should move itself forward, allowing the hammer to pop up a bit to the "ready to fire" position.

 

That said, if you're pulling tight on the trigger as it fires and don't release it, then it should operate exactly as you're describing (though it should be returning itself forward if you let go of it). That little bit of material you describe as needing to be cleared to have the hammer pop up to the second position keeps the rifle a semi auto (and no, the full auto's aren't just like what you have with just a little grinding).

 

If the spring isn't the culprit, then the angle of the notch that holds the hammer down when the trigger is held back (as the hammer is recocked), may be cut incorrectly or there is a burr edge that needs wearing off.

 

Overall, this is likely an item that will correct itself with some wear in. I'd try a couple hundred rounds of dry firing to see if it's just a burr somewhere along the hammer, or in the "trigger notch." You can always go through the trouble of sending it back, and a couple hundred dry fires won't cost you anything.

 

 

Wow - didn't mean to set off a firestorm

 

I followed your suggestion of working the bolt with the trigger pulled all the way back and I duplicated the problem right off the bat! I could definitely tell that the hammer was being just slightly hung up on something as I released the trigger. Funny that I could dry fire, release the trigger, then cycle the bolt and it would not happen though. Anyway, I thoroughly degreased the trigger assembly and the hammer contact points, then manually worked the bolt numerous times (like hundreds) until I could visibly see the black finish working off of the edge of the hammer, like it was a bur. I degreased that spot and worked the bolt several more times until about midnight last night (fingers sore) -- I'm happy to say that it seems to have worked! I can't get to the range to test it live for a couple of weeks, but I'm pretty confident that it will work fine now. Thanks for the advice!

 

 

Sorry you got pulled into the other guy's shitstorm. Hope the breakin works for you, welcome to the forum.

[mcawley27 0]

OK, First off... Given the nature of the problem, the best advice is to have it looked at by a professional gunsmith and not put any live ammo through it until you are satisfied it's resolved. Follow any advice given here entirely at your own risk. Do not do any sort of work on the rifle while it is loaded, and always point the muzzle in a safe direction even if it is not loaded...

 

Dry firing so the disconnector engages the hammer will eventually polish between the two surfaces. Your pics do not show any apparent problem with how the rifle is put together (from what I can see). I'd try "dry firing" it a couple hundred times (pushing the hammer down far enough so the disconnector is engaged before the hook is - take the receiver cover and main gas piston return spring out as you did to take the pictures). My guess is you have a rough spot somewhere in between the disconnector and hammer. Actually you don't need to let the hammer fly each time, just get the disconnector and hammer to engage, then let go of the trigger so the hook engages the hammer up from the disconnector. Then repeat pushing hammer down and pulling the trigger while you re-engage with the disconnector. You probably can get the disconnector to rub against the hammer with just the pressure of the trigger through the disconnector and hammer spring so you can feel if it's smooth or rough each time. Inconsistency would indicate a burr or other source of a hangup.

 

In your pics we can't see the bottom part of the disconnector where it engages the hammer, so this is just speculation. After your dry firing exercise, then put a drop of oil on the end of the hammer where the disconnector would engage it. Reassemble the rifle and try live fire with only one round. There need not be a second round in the gun to see if you have the same problem after the first round is safely fired downrange, safely dry firing as a follow up (muzzle pointed safely down range) to see if the problem continues.

 

The following link is to the tapco g2 install instructions. It's not exactly the same as your trigger, but yours has the same parts (just your trigger is much longer and set back). It will help you familiarize you with the parts. These things are pretty simple once you're oriented. There are only so many possible problems you could be having in your trigger group.

 

http://www.tapco.com/html/instructions/G2%20Instructions.pdf

 

And oh by the way, you have every right to be pissed if a new gun doesn't work out of the box. It's just that so many people here have had lemons that we're (for the most part) more interested in dealing with it, than getting pissed off about it. Even in the "good old US" there are variations in parts of products, and to believe all manufacturing is perfect (anywhere in the world) is completely naive. Somehow, we manage to hold a grudge without threatening a lawsuit, what a concept...

 

Thanks! The instructions look simple enough. Quick question on this Tapco trigger - does it work with the standard rifle stock or is supposed to be used with a pistol grip stock? I've read a lot about converting, but I really do like the factory stock and do not want to change it. My plan was only to change the gas piston in order to use 20 round magazines (legally at the range where LEO's are watching). I guess the Tapco trigger would resolve that though.