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faststang90

Ks 12 and dove shot

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Yeah , I'm happy with mine so far. Havent had a chance to run any target ammo in it , but it definitely will run some of the bird shot I ran out of it.  

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I was running 2.75 dram loads reliably in stick mags and 3 dram bulk pack loads in MD-20 drums. These things are winners right out of the box.

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1 hour ago, evlblkwpnz said:

I was running 2.75 dram loads reliably in stick mags and 3 dram bulk pack loads in MD-20 drums. These things are winners right out of the box.

What’s the difference in drums and stick mags as far as reliability with certain type ammos ?  Does it have to do with spring tension or ?

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1 hour ago, Jetg23 said:

What’s the difference in drums and stick mags as far as reliability with certain type ammos ?  Does it have to do with spring tension or ?

Drums will generally require stronger loads, assuming we are talking about a full drum and a gun that doesn't run great. Yes, resistance due to spring tension. 

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"I was running 2.75 dram loads reliably in stick mags and 3 dram bulk pack loads in MD-20 drums. These things are winners right out of the box."

Have rebuilt a number of these guns, and so far I've seen one KS-12 that ran this way out of the box. My advice to the owner was to leave it  just as it is mechanically, and enjoy it.

Right out of the gate, Kalashnikov USA guns have been head and shoulders above their Russian siblings in terms of build quality and performance, and K-USA appears to be continuously striving to improve the quality performance of the guns..

Still love the Russian guns, but at this point I'm loving the K-USA guns even more!

Spring resistance can definitely have an effect on performance, but with the caveat that weaker springs usually means limiting the range of ammo you're shooting to lower powered loads. Running more powerful loads with weaker springs can result in damage to your bolt carrier and rear trunnion.

If you want to try weaker springs to improve low end performance, proceed with extreme caution, and keep your heavier springs handy to swap in if you see any wear or deformation to the rear of your bolt carrier, or to the rear trunnion.

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To clarify, the mention of springs was in the mags not the recoil assembly. I am with you Mike, I am glad they finally got these KS-12s out into the wild.

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so what is the take on whether these guns are just recycled Chinese components?  someone over on reddit was suspicous for some reason...

 

ive had -2-3 russian shotguns over the years that would run birdshot without futziing around.  i shoulda kept 2 of them.  they were just so buttery smooth! and light recoiling.  not sure what made those guns so perfect.  i guess they were just perfectly in sync

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All of the parts on the KS-12s I've worked on have been top notch US Made parts. In many cases machined from bar stock, where Russian parts are cast/forged. Have swapped in Russian Bolts and Carriers to test compatibility with KS-12s and vice versa, and its always 100%.

 

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20 minutes ago, faststang90 said:

I ordered a pro mag 20 round drum. I seen a video that said it worked guess I’ll see when it comes in 

IIRC, durability was the issue with those 

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That and rough edges and stiffer springs. You can fettle them into working, but don't drop them. I actually liked the baby brothers of them, but I couldn't stomach sending money to promag. Hashbrown neveragain.

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3 hours ago, faststang90 said:

My drum came in and it doesn’t lock in it needs to be worked on 

google MD-20 drum fitting. It will be the same. Do the fitting in the correct order. Fit a very slight amount, check, repeat.

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"ive had -2-3 russian shotguns over the years that would run birdshot without futziing around.  i shoulda kept 2 of them.  they were just so buttery smooth! and light recoiling.  not sure what made those guns so perfect.  i guess they were just perfectly in sync".

So true!

The biggest issue with Russian shotguns and their many recent clones has always been that the way the parts fit and work together in the real world is often very different than the workings the engineers envisioned when they designed these guns.

What is baffling is that with nearly every clone produced, regardless of origin, the defects which cause common malfunctions are precisely copied from whatever sample the copier happens to have in hand, and that on the corporate side no apparent effort goes in to analyzing and engineering a better product.

Generally speaking, one comes away with the impression that If they're actually paying engineers, they're paying them way too much, and they'd be much better off hiring guys who actually understand how to make these systems perform in the real world.

 Pretty much across the board, regardless of the source, out of the box, most AK shotguns will run high brass reasonably well,  fewer guns will run low brass reasonably well,  and some guns won't run anything well.

Once in a while, when the stars are in divine alignment, an AK shotgun right out of the box will run absolutely everything beautifully. As Salty has opined, when one is lucky enough to get one these. its a "keeper".

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On ‎12‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 9:53 PM, Lone Star Arms said:

"ive had -2-3 russian shotguns over the years that would run birdshot without futziing around.  i shoulda kept 2 of them.  they were just so buttery smooth! and light recoiling.  not sure what made those guns so perfect.  i guess they were just perfectly in sync".

So true!

The biggest issue with Russian shotguns and their many recent clones has always been that the way the parts fit and work together in the real world is often very different than the workings the engineers envisioned when they designed these guns.

What is baffling is that with nearly every clone produced, regardless of origin, the defects which cause common malfunctions are precisely copied from whatever sample the copier happens to have in hand, and that on the corporate side no apparent effort goes in to analyzing and engineering a better product.

Generally speaking, one comes away with the impression that If they're actually paying engineers, they're paying them way too much, and they'd be much better off hiring guys who actually understand how to make these systems perform in the real world.

 Pretty much across the board, regardless of the source, out of the box, most AK shotguns will run high brass reasonably well,  fewer guns will run low brass reasonably well,  and some guns won't run anything well.

Once in a while, when the stars are in divine alignment, an AK shotgun right out of the box will run absolutely everything beautifully. As Salty has opined, when one is lucky enough to get one these. its a "keeper".

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XTR-12 shotgun and ALG AKT trigger are prime examples of what you are referring to in the 'engineer' commentary. They already know it all, why would they bother to listen to a jeweler or a pool builder, lol? ;)

 

As far as winners and losers go, I think receiver to trunnion alignment has everything to do with it. It is the one thing that can vary the most on Saiga 12s. I haven't handled enough KS-12s and Lynx to see if they vary as much in alignment.

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9 hours ago, evlblkwpnz said:

XTR-12 shotgun and ALG AKT trigger are prime examples of what you are referring to in the 'engineer' commentary. They already know it all, why would they bother to listen to a jeweler or a pool builder, lol? ;)

 

As far as winners and losers go, I think receiver to trunnion alignment has everything to do with it. It is the one thing that can vary the most on Saiga 12s. I haven't handled enough KS-12s and Lynx to see if they vary as much in alignment.

Had a KS-12 in the shop with receiver/carrier alignment issues, and although the fit and finish is generally much better than the Russian export models, KS-12s clearly aren't immune to these issues.

Lynx seems to attempt to address cycling issues with generally weaker springs, a blackjack type recoil buffer at the rear of the receiver, and a couple of extra gas settings.

Once again to me this applying band-aids and Appalachian engineering to solve problems inherent in the engineering and assembly issues copied from the originals.

Receiver alignment is definitely something we always look at when a gun comes in for work. One of the the other issues we commonly see is fitment geometry.

The guns we see often have a combination of issues when they come in the door, and have often been previously 'worked on ', so along with the inherent issues present in many factory guns, we also often have to address issues created by previous aftermarket work. I'm sure you get your fair share of these guns as well :)

When I started doing this a decade ago, and I' know the same is true of you,  I came to gunsmithing with a background as a master craftsman. Custom pool builder, or custom jeweler - that's not a bad place to start.

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Yes, I have seen some really bad ones with really bad ideas implemented and nearly ruined parts. It usually comes from regular gunsmiths trying to work on one or a shop that would like to do Saiga 12 work, but isn't really up to the task. When the economy was bad I think a lot of shops would take anything in even if they didn't know the platform at all, just to keep cash flowing. Thankfully, I haven't seen much of it lately.

 

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The drum worked great 👍. Only problem was I could only get 19 rounds to load. The 12 gauge sure kicks harder than the 20 gauge did. My shoulder is killing me now lol . I’m very happy with this gun for now 

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