Ks 12 and dove shot

[faststang90 18]

My kalashnikov 12 fires dove shot good too. I’m happy with this gun 

 

[Jetg23 7]

Yeah , I'm happy with mine so far. Havent had a chance to run any target ammo in it , but it definitely will run some of the bird shot I ran out of it.  

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

I was running 2.75 dram loads reliably in stick mags and 3 dram bulk pack loads in MD-20 drums. These things are winners right out of the box.

[Jetg23 7]

1 hour ago, evlblkwpnz said:

I was running 2.75 dram loads reliably in stick mags and 3 dram bulk pack loads in MD-20 drums. These things are winners right out of the box.

What’s the difference in drums and stick mags as far as reliability with certain type ammos ?  Does it have to do with spring tension or ?

[Jetg23 7]

I meant to ask what makes the difference..lol

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

1 hour ago, Jetg23 said:

What’s the difference in drums and stick mags as far as reliability with certain type ammos ?  Does it have to do with spring tension or ?

Drums will generally require stronger loads, assuming we are talking about a full drum and a gun that doesn't run great. Yes, resistance due to spring tension. 

[Lone Star Arms 2,049]

"I was running 2.75 dram loads reliably in stick mags and 3 dram bulk pack loads in MD-20 drums. These things are winners right out of the box."

Have rebuilt a number of these guns, and so far I've seen one KS-12 that ran this way out of the box. My advice to the owner was to leave it  just as it is mechanically, and enjoy it.

Right out of the gate, Kalashnikov USA guns have been head and shoulders above their Russian siblings in terms of build quality and performance, and K-USA appears to be continuously striving to improve the quality performance of the guns..

Still love the Russian guns, but at this point I'm loving the K-USA guns even more!

Spring resistance can definitely have an effect on performance, but with the caveat that weaker springs usually means limiting the range of ammo you're shooting to lower powered loads. Running more powerful loads with weaker springs can result in damage to your bolt carrier and rear trunnion.

If you want to try weaker springs to improve low end performance, proceed with extreme caution, and keep your heavier springs handy to swap in if you see any wear or deformation to the rear of your bolt carrier, or to the rear trunnion.

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

To clarify, the mention of springs was in the mags not the recoil assembly. I am with you Mike, I am glad they finally got these KS-12s out into the wild.

[saltydecimator 482]

so what is the take on whether these guns are just recycled Chinese components?  someone over on reddit was suspicous for some reason...

 

ive had -2-3 russian shotguns over the years that would run birdshot without futziing around.  i shoulda kept 2 of them.  they were just so buttery smooth! and light recoiling.  not sure what made those guns so perfect.  i guess they were just perfectly in sync

[Lone Star Arms 2,049]

All of the parts on the KS-12s I've worked on have been top notch US Made parts. In many cases machined from bar stock, where Russian parts are cast/forged. Have swapped in Russian Bolts and Carriers to test compatibility with KS-12s and vice versa, and its always 100%.

 

[faststang90 18]

I ordered a pro mag 20 round drum. I seen a video that said it worked guess I’ll see when it comes in 

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

20 minutes ago, faststang90 said:

I ordered a pro mag 20 round drum. I seen a video that said it worked guess I’ll see when it comes in 

IIRC, durability was the issue with those 

[gunfun 3,931]

That and rough edges and stiffer springs. You can fettle them into working, but don't drop them. I actually liked the baby brothers of them, but I couldn't stomach sending money to promag. Hashbrown neveragain.

[faststang90 18]

My drum came in and it doesn’t lock in it needs to be worked on 

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

3 hours ago, faststang90 said:

My drum came in and it doesn’t lock in it needs to be worked on 

google MD-20 drum fitting. It will be the same. Do the fitting in the correct order. Fit a very slight amount, check, repeat.

[Lone Star Arms 2,049]

"ive had -2-3 russian shotguns over the years that would run birdshot without futziing around.  i shoulda kept 2 of them.  they were just so buttery smooth! and light recoiling.  not sure what made those guns so perfect.  i guess they were just perfectly in sync".

So true!

The biggest issue with Russian shotguns and their many recent clones has always been that the way the parts fit and work together in the real world is often very different than the workings the engineers envisioned when they designed these guns.

What is baffling is that with nearly every clone produced, regardless of origin, the defects which cause common malfunctions are precisely copied from whatever sample the copier happens to have in hand, and that on the corporate side no apparent effort goes in to analyzing and engineering a better product.

Generally speaking, one comes away with the impression that If they're actually paying engineers, they're paying them way too much, and they'd be much better off hiring guys who actually understand how to make these systems perform in the real world.

 Pretty much across the board, regardless of the source, out of the box, most AK shotguns will run high brass reasonably well,  fewer guns will run low brass reasonably well,  and some guns won't run anything well.

Once in a while, when the stars are in divine alignment, an AK shotgun right out of the box will run absolutely everything beautifully. As Salty has opined, when one is lucky enough to get one these. its a "keeper".

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[faststang90 18]

I got it to lock in with very little work just got to get to the range 

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

On ‎12‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 9:53 PM, Lone Star Arms said:

"ive had -2-3 russian shotguns over the years that would run birdshot without futziing around.  i shoulda kept 2 of them.  they were just so buttery smooth! and light recoiling.  not sure what made those guns so perfect.  i guess they were just perfectly in sync".

So true!

The biggest issue with Russian shotguns and their many recent clones has always been that the way the parts fit and work together in the real world is often very different than the workings the engineers envisioned when they designed these guns.

What is baffling is that with nearly every clone produced, regardless of origin, the defects which cause common malfunctions are precisely copied from whatever sample the copier happens to have in hand, and that on the corporate side no apparent effort goes in to analyzing and engineering a better product.

Generally speaking, one comes away with the impression that If they're actually paying engineers, they're paying them way too much, and they'd be much better off hiring guys who actually understand how to make these systems perform in the real world.

 Pretty much across the board, regardless of the source, out of the box, most AK shotguns will run high brass reasonably well,  fewer guns will run low brass reasonably well,  and some guns won't run anything well.

Once in a while, when the stars are in divine alignment, an AK shotgun right out of the box will run absolutely everything beautifully. As Salty has opined, when one is lucky enough to get one these. its a "keeper".

.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

XTR-12 shotgun and ALG AKT trigger are prime examples of what you are referring to in the 'engineer' commentary. They already know it all, why would they bother to listen to a jeweler or a pool builder, lol?

 

As far as winners and losers go, I think receiver to trunnion alignment has everything to do with it. It is the one thing that can vary the most on Saiga 12s. I haven't handled enough KS-12s and Lynx to see if they vary as much in alignment.

[Lone Star Arms 2,049]

On 12/10/2018 at 6:44 AM, evlblkwpnz said:

XTR-12 shotgun and ALG AKT trigger are prime examples of what you are referring to in the 'engineer' commentary. They already know it all, why would they bother to listen to a jeweler or a pool builder, lol?

 

As far as winners and losers go, I think receiver to trunnion alignment has everything to do with it. It is the one thing that can vary the most on Saiga 12s. I haven't handled enough KS-12s and Lynx to see if they vary as much in alignment.

Had a KS-12 in the shop with receiver/carrier alignment issues, and although the fit and finish is generally much better than the Russian export models, KS-12s clearly aren't immune to these issues.

Lynx seems to attempt to address cycling issues with generally weaker springs, a blackjack type recoil buffer at the rear of the receiver, and a couple of extra gas settings.

Once again it looks like yet another  manufacturer is applying band-aids and Appalachian engineering to address problems inherent in the engineering and assembly issues copied from the originals.

Receiver alignment is definitely something we always look at when a gun comes in for work. One of the the other issues we commonly see is fitment geometry.

The guns we see often have a combination of issues when they come in the door, and have often been previously 'worked on ', so along with the inherent issues present in many factory guns, we also often have to address issues created by previous aftermarket work. I'm sure you get your fair share of these guns as well

When I started doing this a decade ago, and I' know the same is true of you,  I came to gunsmithing with a background as a master craftsman. Custom pool builder, or custom jeweler - that's not a bad place to start.

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

Yes, I have seen some really bad ones with really bad ideas implemented and nearly ruined parts. It usually comes from regular gunsmiths trying to work on one or a shop that would like to do Saiga 12 work, but isn't really up to the task. When the economy was bad I think a lot of shops would take anything in even if they didn't know the platform at all, just to keep cash flowing. Thankfully, I haven't seen much of it lately.

 

[faststang90 18]

The drum worked great 👍. Only problem was I could only get 19 rounds to load. The 12 gauge sure kicks harder than the 20 gauge did. My shoulder is killing me now lol . I’m very happy with this gun for now 

[Jetg23 7]

I just had a chance to finally shoot my ks12 like I've been wanting to.  It ran the federal target loads and the Winchester universal without a hiccup.  I ran close to 50 -60 shells of each and it ran perfect. I could do full mag dumps ,burst fire and slow single shot fire with no problems.  I am extremely happy with how it runs. I used three different mags. Factory , ccspecs steel mag and the us made lynx 12 mag.  

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

I can't wait to chop it and do a 100 round dump with it

[Jetg23 7]

8 hours ago, evlblkwpnz said:

I can't wait to chop it and do a 100 round dump with it

I can't wait either man  ! The whole day I was shooting , all I was thinking was how much fun I'm gonna have with it when it's an Evlblacksbs 😎

[faststang90 18]

100 round drum lol. is it going to come with someone to help you hold the gun up ?

[Jetg23 7]

40 minutes ago, faststang90 said:

100 round drum lol. is it going to come with someone to help you hold the gun up ?

😂 I think he said 100 round dump.   Shoot , a 100 round drum would be about a 3ft diameter ....lol.  

[Jetg23 7]

On 12/9/2018 at 8:12 PM, faststang90 said:

I got it to lock in with very little work just got to get to the range 

You get a chance to run it yet ? What all loads have you ran out of your KS 12 ? 

[faststang90 18]

I shot slugs out of the magazines  and I shot monarch lead shot 8 oz out of the drum. So far no problems at all 

[faststang90 18]

I got the box of 100 rounds from Walmart for like 22.00 and it worked great in the gun to. 

[faststang90 18]

last time I went to the ranger the receiver cover would fly off after I shot it. I found out the gun came with a 2 year warranty so I called them and they paid for me to ship the gun back to them.  they fixed the gun and changed the gas plug. with all the stuff going on I don't know when I'm going to get the gun range and try it out.