warthog 1 Posted June 29, 2006 Report Share Posted June 29, 2006 I'd buy one to go with my Saiga. I don't see why there has to be a choice between one or the other. Its only money. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MadMax 0 Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 Well, it looks cool - I've seen a Japanese website which showed this gun on some Russian shooting range - but I'm glad I got my Saiga while they are still cheap. http://www.geocities.co.jp/Athlete-Rodos/7...tgun/saiga.html Note the magazine well, AK rear sight, and hinged top cover. My guess is that if these are built for importation to the US the price will be bumped to $700 to $800 for the better quality. For my money I prefer the much lower price and more than acceptable quality. It's not a high-end Italian double so I don't want to pay a lot for one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NoAim 0 Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 Well, it looks cool - I've seen a Japanese website which showed this gun on some Russian shooting range - but I'm glad I got my Saiga while they are still cheap. http://www.geocities.co.jp/Athlete-Rodos/7...tgun/saiga.html Note the magazine well, AK rear sight, and hinged top cover. My guess is that if these are built for importation to the US the price will be bumped to $700 to $800 for the better quality. For my money I prefer the much lower price and more than acceptable quality. It's not a high-end Italian double so I don't want to pay a lot for one. Izhmash now owns the Molot (VEPR) plant. The Molot guys are trying to redo the Saiga to offload Izhmash's military contracts. That said, from what we last heard, these guns are still in debugging phase. It also remains to be seen if they can be sporterized and imported into the US. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SR71 2 Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 Vepr12 is furnished with a combined bolt stop (automatic and hand-operated). http://talks.guns.ru/forums/icons/forum_pi...0379/379431.jpg http://talks.guns.ru/forums/icons/forum_pi...0379/379435.jpg http://talks.guns.ru/forums/icons/forum_pi...0379/379439.jpg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ronswin 26 Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 That probably explains why Robinson Armament has had trouble getting Vepr shipments from Russia lately. I've also heard of Veprs being shipped back to Russia because of quality control problems. I suspect that once the Robinson Armaments XCR is in production that they will drop the Vepr because of the past problems with Molot, unless the new owner Izhmash can fix the problems. It will be interesting to see which plant makes future Saiga 12's and what the quality will be like. I just don't see Izhmash making Vepr's to Alex Robinsons quality standards. That has NOTHING to do with why RA can not get Veprs. The reasons why he can't are entirely his fault. I have heard of Veprs being shipped back to Russia because the Russians sent them but they were not on the form 6, but in talking to the office staff, they have never returned a batch of Veprs to Russia. It would be easier to fix them here than take the time and money to return them, which they have done in the past. In the last few months I have learned a great deal about the Russians and the way they work. I would take everything that comes from RA about the Russians and dealing with them as being highly suspect. And as RAAC can tell you, as long as the Russians understand the intricacies of US law, they are fairly easy to deal with. RA is also blaming the deal with Venezuala for the delays in getting guns, which is an utter fabrication. A couple of military trade publications have indicated that RA has pretty much abandoned all other products to concentrate on getting the XCR accepted by the military as the next Special Forces Rifle project. The forum he once had on his website turned into a lion's den after deliveries of Vepr's dried up and potential customers were getting irate. If Alex R. is indeed in Russia for contract negotiations it would probably be with Izmash (Molot's new owners) for whatever he can get now and it is safe to say the XCR was rejected by the government for something RA could not easily rectify. It is a safe bet to say that we will never see the Vepr shotgun here in the U.S. (at least in the Swat version). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tozman 0 Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 Vepr 12 is now available in Russia. Item No. 24023 on this gunshops webpage. http://shop.izharsenal.ru/Weapons/Smooth/ Compare the price (in Roubles) with Saiga prices. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
uzitiger 193 Posted July 1, 2006 Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 With someone wanting to make a Saiga S-12 US made receiver maybe we can get someone to make a trunnion for a Mossberg barrel or other low cost barrel and build our own American Saigas. We would need a rear trunnion as well and use the AK's fire control system to build our own Shotguns. Roger Cope of Cope Distributing is selling US made barrels for the AK rifles. Maybe we can get US made shotgun barrels made as well or modify the Mossberg barrel to take the gas block needed for semi auto operation. Where difficulties arise with the Russian VEPRs and Saigas American ingenuity can take over. Look at all the parts and accessories made here for the AKs, it shouldn't be too hard to make Saiga/VEPR shotgun parts here in the US and not have to worry about imported parts and the inability to get Saigas due to US Customs paperwork or other roadblocks our govenrment puts to slow our ability to get these shotguns. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted July 1, 2006 Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 Vepr12 is furnished with a combined bolt stop (automatic and hand-operated).http://talks.guns.ru/forums/icons/forum_pi...0379/379431.jpg http://talks.guns.ru/forums/icons/forum_pi...0379/379435.jpg http://talks.guns.ru/forums/icons/forum_pi...0379/379439.jpg Hey thanks for the closeups SR71. Any chance we could see some more of the inside from different angles? Or at least an explanation of how it works? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SR71 2 Posted July 2, 2006 Report Share Posted July 2, 2006 The tooth (1) rises upwards follower of mag and accordingly lifts upwards bolt stop (2). The point in which it contacts with follower of mag is noted red on the third picture. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted July 2, 2006 Report Share Posted July 2, 2006 AH SOOOOOOO! I see said the blind man! Damn that's a whole lot simpler than what I have! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
6500rpm 670 Posted July 2, 2006 Report Share Posted July 2, 2006 If I'm reading this right, the LRBHO is pretty much the same as an SKS. I'm with Cobra on this one, I'd really like to see some detailed pictures of the LRBHO, possibly with the mag out from different angles. SR71, don't know if that's yours or if you have access to one but you definately get the "your the man" award when it comes to pic's on this one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ronswin 26 Posted July 2, 2006 Report Share Posted July 2, 2006 The tooth (1) rises upwards follower of mag and accordingly lifts upwards bolt stop (2). The point in which it contacts with follower of mag is noted red on the third picture. The last round bolt hold and mag is quite similar to that of a FN-FAL. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pedal2alloy 206 Posted July 2, 2006 Report Share Posted July 2, 2006 The tooth (1) rises upwards follower of mag and accordingly lifts upwards bolt stop (2). The point in which it contacts with follower of mag is noted red on the third picture. Hey SR71 - If you can buy one of these Veper12's, you could strip it and then sell just the 5 or 6 parts that the guys are interested in here, and you would make at least a 100% profit Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SR71 2 Posted July 3, 2006 Report Share Posted July 3, 2006 (edited) Veper12's bolt: http://talks.guns.ru/forums/icons/forum_pi...0378/378635.jpg http://talks.guns.ru/forums/icons/forum_pi.../thm/378649.jpg http://talks.guns.ru/forums/icons/forum_pi.../thm/378651.jpg http://talks.guns.ru/forums/icons/forum_pi.../thm/378653.jpg http://talks.guns.ru/forums/icons/forum_pi...0328/328874.jpg http://talks.guns.ru/forums/icons/forum_pi...0328/328875.jpg automatic bolt stop Edited July 3, 2006 by SR71 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SR71 2 Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
avatar 4 Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scoutjoe 276 Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pedal2alloy 206 Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 Parts value to U.S. buyer: Flash hider................................$100 Gas block/front sight..................$100 Front handguards & retainers.....$150 Rear sight block.........................$100 Mag & magwell.........................$150 Bolt..........................................$100 Top cover..................................$100 FCG..........................................$100 BHO linkage..............................$100 Safety/selector.........................$100 Folder.......................................$100 ...........................................------------ Total......................................$1,200 How much does a Veper 12 cost you, SR71? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 huh? Where in the world did you come up with those prices? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tozman 0 Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pedal2alloy 206 Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 huh? Where in the world did you come up with those prices? They're the prices that people in the U.S. would pay to get their hands on the "unsporterized" parts for their S12's. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SR71 2 Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 (edited) Parts value to U.S. buyer: Flash hider................................$100 Gas block/front sight..................$100 Front handguards & retainers.....$150 Rear sight block.........................$100 Mag & magwell.........................$150 Bolt..........................................$100 Top cover..................................$100 FCG..........................................$100 BHO linkage..............................$100 Safety/selector.........................$100 Folder.......................................$100 ...........................................------------ Total......................................$1,200 How much does a Veper 12 cost you, SR71? How much S12 automatic bolt stop in U.S.? I pay for my Veper-12 ...... 575$ Edited July 11, 2006 by SR71 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 I don't know about the rest of you but I ain't paying those prices! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pedal2alloy 206 Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 How much S12 automatic bolt stop in U.S.? I pay for my Veper-12 ...... 575$ All of the parts that I mentioned are not available in the U.S. So if you can buy one for $575, you can strip it and sell the parts for at least double that. The only thing you can't send to the U.S. is the receiver. Let us know if you are interested. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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