Any interest in Saiga-12 double stack receiver flats or undrilled blan

[montana bound 0]

im going to attempt to produce a few test swelled receiver flats and blanks down at the shop at work this week.

 

if i can get this to work properly who would be interested in purchasing one?

 

you would have to replace your current receiver, if youve build an AK before you shouldnt have any problems.

 

im also going to work on a 20 round doublestack box mag and another prototype, which i dont think i can discuss here. should take me much longer to make these since i have to mill out custom dies for the power press.

[BattleRifleG3 16]

That sounds like what I have suggested in the past. If you can, more power to you. My thoughts are that so drastic a modification would be just as well starting off on a new pattern, even if highly influenced by the Saiga-12 design.

 

But those are just my thoughts, this sounds like a great idea. From developing similarly drastic modifications myself, I'd give the suggestion of holding off on saying exactly what will have to be modified, because in the process you'll find a number of things you'll have to differently than expected.

 

This does seem that it would solve the DD dilemna by simply starting it off fresh as a new firearm.

[BattleRifleG3 16]

I was surfing gunbroker and thought of you immediately when I found this ad:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=50581919

[montana bound 0]

jesus that a short barrel.

 

im looking to make receivers, not get my ass locked up for an unregistered SBS.

[BattleRifleG3 16]

I was thinking along the lines of using the bolt carrier group and such.

 

I wasn't suggesting you build an unregistered SBS. I figured either you'd pick up a different barrel or register an SBS according to the law.

[montana bound 0]

got both the top and bottom plates cut, doing a really good job splitting the receivers at the bulge so far.

 

this is going to take some time.

[uzitiger 193]

I would be interested in an S-12 flat if I knew what barrel to use for building one and where to get the other parts. If you can make the top cover and barrel trunions then you would have a winner.

[BattleRifleG3 16]

I think the idea is to take an existing S-12 and make it on a new receiver.

 

Hey, this would not only lick the DD dilemna by creating a new serial #'d part, but it would open up the possibility of making an AOW instead of an SBS, which would have a transfer tax of only $5 instead of $200.

[Conju 2]

i'm a little confused, how would it be classified as an AOW?

[BattleRifleG3 16]

A smoothbore that has never had a buttstock can be an AOW and is less expensive to transfer than a SBS. A similar rule to the pistol receiver issue.

 

A Saiga shotgun shortened would be an SBS no matter what. Built on a virgin receiver, it would be possible to build a short barreled model and register it as an AOW.

[uzitiger 193]

What about trunnions to use low cost barrels or barrel blanks available from either Numrich or Sarco? How about making a trunnion to take Mossberg or other low cost US made barrels so we can build an American Saiga? The barrel would have to be drilled for the gas block required for semi auto operation. Barrel length would be up to the builder. I want mine to have a stock and a 19" barrel to avoid the $200 short barrel shotgun permit stamp.

 

We would then need someone to make gas pistons and cylinders and top covers. Other parts could come from AK like the semi auto fire control parts; hammer safety and trigger.

Edited July 2, 2006 by uzitiger

[montana bound 0]

so far i can get single stacks to stay put, but i had to add an adapter to them to stop them from wiggling in the swelled receiver.

 

my other project is a complete failure so im going for a Beta-C style instead.

 

im having major problems feeding off the stick mags, bad way of locking on the rim when it cycles.

 

im up to 20 on the double stack sticks and the other project is going to be quite heavy and almost too bulky to be of any real use.

[montana bound 0]

ok, this is a miserable failure.

 

ive tried several ways, i cant stop the rim from jamming up when it tries to chamber besides loading them like a Enfield, rims stacked in a certain way.

 

receiver blew itself out at the swell, almost took my arm off, added plates to re enforce it, blew out at the rivets.

 

im at a total loss on how to do this.

 

good news is the Beta-C style mag works and holds 50, cost me an arm and a leg to make it though.

[AegisDei 2]

ok, this is a miserable failure.

 

ive tried several ways, i cant stop the rim from jamming up when it tries to chamber besides loading them like a Enfield, rims stacked in a certain way.

 

receiver blew itself out at the swell, almost took my arm off, added plates to re enforce it, blew out at the rivets.

 

im at a total loss on how to do this.

 

good news is the Beta-C style mag works and holds 50, cost me an arm and a leg to make it though.

Well thanks for trying...sounds like you put in a darn good effort. And ya never know til ya try. And the beta-C sounds AWESOME!!! Nice work. Hopefully someday we'll get to see it in action.

[montana bound 0]

it too heavy to be usable, i can barely shoulder it.

 

only way i could see doing this would be to make a milled receiver, but that just adds more weight which defeats the purpose.

[G-Rem 0]

ok, this is a miserable failure.

Ya gotta step up to fuck up. Kudos to you for trying.

receiver blew itself out at the swell, almost took my arm off, added plates to re enforce it, blew out at the rivets.

Next time have mother in law test fire for you.

[BattleRifleG3 16]

I had a similar idea and reached the conclusion that a milled receiver would be the way to go.

 

I personally don't think it would defeat the purpose given that many folks love their milled AKs and that the added weight would be welcome on a higher recoiling gun. Especially if you already have in mind to stick a huge, bulky, heavy mag in it. To me they would just go together.

[Halo Mfg 0]

so far i can get single stacks to stay put, but i had to add an adapter to them to stop them from wiggling in the swelled receiver.

 

my other project is a complete failure so im going for a Beta-C style instead.

 

im having major problems feeding off the stick mags, bad way of locking on the rim when it cycles.

 

im up to 20 on the double stack sticks and the other project is going to be quite heavy and almost too bulky to be of any real use.

 

You mean a drum like this...funny no one liked it a year ago.

 

 

We make 20rd sticks also. We just decided to make the whole gun for them.

Just make sure the whole gun isnt over 9lbs. After that it becomes a destructive device.

[BobAsh 582]

Me likey.

[G O B 3,516]

Best to make the whole gun, and make it USA. Less "issues" with Unkle BATFuck!

[Bvamp 604]

people just wont lay off of the drum issue, will they....

 

you will be paying my legal fees when I sue the governemnt when you get my saiga shotgun stolen from me by uncle sam under guise of an ATF letter that you all have been told REPEATEDLY will be signed in SHORT ORDER when a drum comes out for this shotgun. call up mr nixon at the BATF HQ and ask him. Im sure he will enlighten you.

 

im sure the russians wont be incredibly happy to lose the largest firearms market in the world for thier shotguns, nor will the importer be all too happy about it.

 

the reason this subject seems to be unpursued is because its been stepped on by the leaders of this forum when it starts.

 

its just an incredibly stupid idea, and not a very worthwhile trade....you eliminate your market when you release something that bans the target market from owning what your device will be used on. the governemnet wont want them, or they would HAVE them already. its unwieldy, and has no use other than to look cool and blow the crap out of stuff. I wouldnt carry one in a firefight, for that matter, let alone several of them.

 

sorry, but thats just my take on it. Im sure Im not the only one who thinks this.

 

go ahead, make them, see what happens. it will happen fairly quick, I am assured, so you wont have to wait in suspense. you are going to throw your money away unnessecarily, if you ask me.

[Halo Mfg 0]

people just wont lay off of the drum issue, will they....

 

you will be paying my legal fees when I sue the governemnt when you get my saiga shotgun stolen from me by uncle sam under guise of an ATF letter that you all have been told REPEATEDLY will be signed in SHORT ORDER when a drum comes out for this shotgun. call up mr nixon at the BATF HQ and ask him. Im sure he will enlighten you.

 

the reason this subject seems to be unpursued is because its been stepped on by the leaders of this forum when it starts.

 

sorry, but thats just my take on it. Im sure Im not the only one who thinks this.

 

We happen to agree with you (thats why we never pursued it.)

Edited September 21, 2006 by Halo Mfg

[BattleRifleG3 16]

-->

QUOTE(G O B @ Sep 20 2006, 06:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Best to make the whole gun, and make it USA. Less "issues"...

 

I am of the same opinion. Considering that the Russians took longer to design the S-12 magazine than to design the S-12, I think that's a reasonable proposition, especially if you have a particular mag in mind. And make it something that you can revise again andagain after it gets classified as a DD. Or just make the dang thing a DD and love it.

[montana bound 0]

im not saying its a drum mag, its just "The Project"

 

halomfg if that was made in 18g steel and not that plastic we would have the same "project", just mine is bigger

 

im almost 3k into this so far and ill i have to show for it so far is 6 stamping plates, a pile of blown out flats, 1 working "project" thats too heavy to use, and 4 double stack sticks that wont feed right.

 

im gonna fold this, throwing good money after bad.

[BobAsh 582]

As sexy as those pictures are, 10 rounds (or for that matter, 8 rounds) is plenty for a semi-auto shotgun.

[Halo Mfg 0]

im almost 3k into this so far and ill i have to show for it so far is 6 stamping plates, a pile of blown out flats, 1 working "project" thats too heavy to use, and 4 double stack sticks that wont feed right.

 

Only 3K into it, and you have ALL that stuff... your doing GREAT. We have plastic "models" that ran $26,436.00 and they didnt even shoot anything. That clear P12 protoype mag itself was $1700. Pump shotguns cant be DD (beyond weight, and sporting use). Thats why we made a plastic stock. 20rds, 18" barrel, 27" overall length, and fully loaded 8lbs. We also made an alterate barrel with a choke and a 3 rd mag so wont be hit with a DD label.

 

Montana, just change your stratagie.

Edited September 21, 2006 by Halo Mfg

[montana bound 0]

Update: instead of messing with swelling a stamped receiver i milled 3 1/4 inch steel plates and have them welded together with angle brackets for support.

 

interior width is the same as a standard saiga receiver but it is 1/2 inch wider.

 

now for the problems.

 

it will not feed correctly unless i stagger the rounds like the enfield but even then its not quite right.

 

stick mags work great, holds 20 rounds.

 

the "project" is doing ok, still has a feeding issue.

 

cut it down to 60 rounds on that one

 

i need to get a BATFE determination on if i can sell the plates as a 80% receiver or if they have to be sold as a full on FFL required receiver

 

you will need longer cross pins and im making a larger safety lever so it can span the larger distance properly.

 

no clue if this solution will work, im afraid that the receiver will separate if stressed too much.

 

if these can go as 80% receivers i will include the proper length cross pins and the new safety.

 

my shop cost to produce the receiver plates and safety is $190 a unit, the mags are around $40, i can cut that down if i can mass produce.

[BattleRifleG3 16]

Do I understand right that this would be for what amounts to a Saiga-12 parts kit, ie the primary components removed and rebuilt on a new receiver?

[montana bound 0]

strip your saiga down to the trunions and rebuild on the plates.

 

a new receiver, so you could AOW it if you wanted to do so.

 

gotta wait for the BATFE decision on it and since we are in the middle of NASCAR season im going to be building engine blocks for awhile instead of having time to fiddle with this.

[montana bound 0]

http://www.wraithmaker.com/

 

not mine but looks like he did a better job than i did.

 

still no determination on the 80% or not.