Azhunter 0 Posted July 11, 2004 Report Share Posted July 11, 2004 Hello guys (gals?) I stumbled across your website, and have taken thte hook on these saiga 12's. In my noobness I have a couple questions for you all. When I order my 12, 1) what kind of sightes will it come with? 2) I think the mag holds five rounds is this right? 3) What can I do to it before the ban sunsets, after? 4)what are the chances of me getting a "new" one that has the hold open catch? Sorry for such stupid question, but I am really liking what I'm seeing, and can't wait to get mine! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hardcorps1775 1 Posted July 11, 2004 Report Share Posted July 11, 2004 (edited) 1. a cheesy notch rear sight mounted just aft on the gas tube. the front sight is an equally cheesy post and is mounted on the front of the gas tube. the rear sight appears to be adjustable for windage only. the front post is fixed. the saving grace is that it has the commie style rail on the left side so you can mount all sorts of optics... 2. standard is 5 rounds. but they make 8 (and maybe 10 rounders) neither of which is available to us evil gun owning civilian scum who so terrify the gov't...the usas12 10rd mags and 21rd drum are supposedly modifiable to fit the saiga12. 3. ongoing arguments on before and after... 4. all the new ones appear to have the hold open catch, mine did. the only stupid question is that which isn't asked! Edited July 11, 2004 by hardcorps1775 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azhunter 0 Posted July 11, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2004 1. a cheesy notch rear sight mounted just aft on the gas tube. the front sight is an equally cheesy post and is mounted on the front of the gas tube. the rear sight appears to be adjustable for windage only. the front post is fixed. the saving grace is that it has the commie style rail on the left side so you can mount all sorts of optics... 2. standard is 5 rounds. but they make 8 (and maybe 10 rounders) neither of which is available to us evil gun owning civilian scum who so terrify the gov't...the usas12 10rd mags and 21rd drum are supposedly modifiable to fit the saiga12. 3. ongoing arguments on before and after... 4. all the new ones appear to have the hold open catch, mine did. the only stupid question is that which isn't asked! Thanks man! I guess I don't need a sight do I? After all I DO have a shotgun, so I don't have to aim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kmoore 3 Posted July 12, 2004 Report Share Posted July 12, 2004 You will need a sight, some of these seem choked so full it might be a rifle lololol. Seriously, if you get an adjustable sight, then you'll get a rib mounted on the gas tube, and it will be adjustable up and down from the front. The rear is driftable left/right. Single bead up front, couple of blades in the back about .5 inch apart. I guess you center the bead between those. I'm still trying to think of a better system. Eventually I'll mount a dot too. Before the ban, Not many mods that are do able. You could pay the $200 NFA tax and create a short BBL Shotgun, and skirt all of the rules. (unless your local rules supercede the federal). As no Saiga's are "preban" all of those rules apply. After the ban, the general consensus is that only 922r (import ban) will apply, so you'll have to replace enough orig (russian) parts with US made parts so that russian parts count is below or equal to 10. There are lots of ongoing threads about this now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azhunter 0 Posted July 12, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2004 Thanks again, I getting the feeling that this gun is going to be like my Ak, SKS and everyother gun I have. Oh well, can one of you answer me this though, can I replace the stock with another one? What I want is to camo one, but still have the black for another option/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hardcorps1775 1 Posted July 12, 2004 Report Share Posted July 12, 2004 sights are still a good thing to have even on a shotgun! if you check out my thread on my saiga, i'm planning on doing a mod to add a ghost ring rear sight to mine. you can replace the stock pretty easily. i read on another thread that you remove the external screws then there's another one you have to remove INSIDE the shotgun. you can also change the sling loops with better, wider ones. that thread has pics by one of our guys who actually did it...there's a lotta info here - change your options to view all threads and go back to the beginning and work your way forward...lotta good info and pics! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted July 13, 2004 Report Share Posted July 13, 2004 Azhunter CDNN has s-12 in camo tor $199. However it does not have camo on metal parts. Just get $25 dollar spray kit from midway and go wild with your air brush! It's a saiga--you ain't gonna hurt it! G O B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azhunter 0 Posted July 13, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2004 Azhunter CDNN has s-12 in camo tor $199. However it does not have camo on metal parts. Just get $25 dollar spray kit from midway and go wild with your air brush! It's a saiga--you ain't gonna hurt it! G O B Thanks for the heads up, there is a gun show next weekend. Hopfully I will return one of you guys Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted July 13, 2004 Report Share Posted July 13, 2004 Azhunter-We have a gunshow here this weekend also , but by your handle I don't think your in Md. G O B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azhunter 0 Posted July 14, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2004 Azhunter-We have a gunshow here this weekend also , but by your handle I don't think your in Md. G O B naw, I'm in Arizona Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azhunter 0 Posted July 15, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2004 I've got a guy that I'm supose to meet at the gun show to close a deal with for a Saiga 12. He is asking $200 with two 5 round mags. Is this a good deal for a used one? What should I check to make sure this thing isn't missing a few parts. Also I have a bunch of bird/skeet rounds that I plan to shoot, but also want to shoot some exciting slugs. IE bean bag, dragons breath,minishells, will any of these hurt the saiga? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hardcorps1775 1 Posted July 15, 2004 Report Share Posted July 15, 2004 (edited) not too bad. i got my saiga12, 19"bbl, improved cylinder (no chokes) new from a gun store at $290 w/1 mag...that's on the high end. it seems mags are drying up so the fact you're getting two is pretty good...maybe see if he'll throw in a 3rd? as for the exotic ammo, just make sure you clean it real damn good afterwards, especially with the dragon's breath! the other stuff? try it out and let us know! the saiga shotgun is pretty new territory! Edited July 15, 2004 by hardcorps1775 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted July 15, 2004 Report Share Posted July 15, 2004 Azhunter Good price. Look at bore it should be mirror bright these things have chrome chamber and barrel. Being chromed it should hold up to most anything,but I'm with hardcore -clean that thang!(easy as these things are to strip ain't no excuse!) G O) B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kmoore 3 Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 Good price. CDNN had new ones for 199 a little bit ago. But they only have one mag, adj sights and 22 inch full choke bbl. Mags are scarce right now and that deal is gone (back to 220 or 230?) You might try cycling some rounds thru. Ask him to show you how it breaks down. Ask him if you can dry fire it. Chances are pretty good all of the parts are there, but you might ask to shoot a mag or two thru at a range you both decide on. Function check. Sights check. Satisfaction check. Trigger check. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 (edited) exotics....i wouldnt use too much of anything with steel in it. Also, you should check the barrel length. The chokes on these from what I can tell depend on length of barrel. (they dont make different barrels, they just cut the long full chokes down, I think) I put a couple of flechette rounds out of mine, and inspected a tiny bit of scratching in the bore. no big deal, its a kick around gun for me, but Im sure other steel type rounds and the magnesium (dragon's breath) rounds will score the barrel in time. Also, the magnesium rounds dont have a lot of recoil, so you might have cycling problems with them. ...minishells... you mean the stubby 12 gauge shells they have out there? those arent really meant for a regular chamber, but I cant see how they would hurt anything. might feed wrong. I would stick to lead slugs and exploding targets if they are legal in your state. if you really want to be impressed, load up a mag with 3" buckshot and empty the pig as fast as you can at 10 yards into a 5 gallon bucket. Also, pay attention to max dram shells and your gas setting! try setting the gun to setting 1 and see if those skeet loads go through it. if they do so without jamming, you can just leave it there. mine is like that, I guess they arent all like that :/ Ive put over 3000 rounds of all types through mine, and apart from light rounds jamming when I try to bump fire it, (which is user error as far as im concerned), i have had not a single malfunction. unreal for a gun made out of beer cans by a blind man. you should be able to get a rough idea how much if at all its been used by where the bolt hits the rear of the receiver. mine has a nice dent in it. it appeared after the first magazine, and is slowly getting worn. I dont expect the gun to fail me anytime soon, but just a thing to look at. 200 bucks though, I wouldnt complain if it works. good luck. take a pic of the s#$t eating grin it puts on your face after the first mag you let out of it. Edited July 16, 2004 by Bvamp Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GunzRGud 0 Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 I have a 19" barrel with the fixed bead front sight. I got a tritium big dot sight for a Remington 870 from XS Sights and epoxied it over the bead. It works great! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azhunter 0 Posted July 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 (edited) Update: I wish you guys could have seen this "Saiga12" (if you could call it that) I'm typing this from my laptop while sitting out side of the show. I wish my phone was charged so I could have taken a picture of it. heres the low down I waited until 12:00 to make the call to the guy who was supose to be in the show at around that time. He told me to meet him by the magizine stand, and that he had the shotgun with him. I was so excited that I pretty much ran to him. He had it in an assault type case that was included with the gun. I walked over to the wall and opend the case up. What I saw has been burned into my mind forever. It was a saiga shot gun, but looked as if it had been put together by every other gun that has ever been made. Nothing looked like the pictures you all have posted. No receiver cover, the recoil spring looked like it had been cut atleast twelve times , the barrel had more rust on it than all my C&R guns combined. To say the least I was shocked. He aslo informed me that the two magizines he promised, where to his sons 10-22 mags. (how the heck do you confuse those mags!?!) anyways the gun was also missing the the most important part IMO the bolt. The stock had a bad crack in it that had been JB welded, and then covered in duct tape. It kind of ruined my day, but who knows, there is another show at the end of this month. Maybe I'l get lucky there. Once again thanks for helping a noob out with all my questions Edited July 17, 2004 by Azhunter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 yo man, that sucks. go kick his ass or something. what you should do, is just break down and go to your favorite shop there, and have them order you one new. even if its a few more bucks than what we all paid, its more than worth it. people that try to rip me off like that i tend to get quite unruly with. he's lucky it was you and not myself that met him. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kmoore 3 Posted July 18, 2004 Report Share Posted July 18, 2004 I'll take it .... Tell him I'll buy it. 200 seems like a fine price. Box it up and ship it to me/my FFL. Oops, I meant 200 cents. Sounds like a parts gun, maybe worth ~30 or ~40 bucks at best. Sorry to hear about the let down. Bummer. Keep looking, they are out there. Don't see that many used, but that's a good sign, right? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azhunter 0 Posted July 18, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2004 There is a much larger show next weekend, so if there is nothing there I think I'll order it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted July 18, 2004 Report Share Posted July 18, 2004 kmoore: unless you are a felon or non-national, why WOULD you want it? its a piece of crap. explain please. parts for almost a new price? yer crazy, right? you cant be thinking full auto conversion without a trace, cause he said its all deformed as is.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kmoore 3 Posted July 18, 2004 Report Share Posted July 18, 2004 bvamp, guess that's a problem with the internet, hard to tell when one's tongue is firmly planted in one's cheek. Almost sounded like a bait and switch. Seller: "I've got a nice saiga, and 2 mags you want it for 200?" Me: "Yea, 200 seems right" Seller: "oh, I forgot to tell you these mags are for .22 and forgot to tell you shotty's hammered" Me: "that's ok, I forgot to tell you I only have 200 pennies .... " Interesting that you: Mis read my post meant as humor. Suggested committing assault on sellor. Suggested Full auto conversion (I shoot them as fast as I can control them as is) or someother illegal activity And then ask ME for a clarification. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted July 20, 2004 Report Share Posted July 20, 2004 (edited) sounds like a barely/dangerously functional gun at best, and why would one have a completely rusted up barrel on a saiga12 anyway? it dont sound right to begin with, dude is pulling crap, and you still want to offer them 30-40 bucks for it....now you sound fishy too. thats all im sayin. It sat and rotted because the guy totally screwed it up, or his sons did. (or even better, it has blood on it) That makes just about every part a throw away. I dont think my shooting buddy would take it, and thats saying something. if someone openly lies thier ass off to me, and tries to rip me off like that, trust me, i can get them to hit me first....but they are probably just stupid anyway, and not worth the trouble. where are you going to get a spare saiga12 bolt from without paying out the butt? what about god-knows-what happened to the reciever if its in "every gun on earth slapped on it" shape? suggestion is the better part of clarification, btw. sorry if I mis-read your post. Edited July 20, 2004 by Bvamp Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azhunter 0 Posted July 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 Sorry if I started a fight between you two over some idiots stupidity. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 nah, no big deal. I might have misinterpreted kmoore's intentions, but, like ive stated elsewhere, i never said I was polite, quiet, or kind. that attitude gets my own self in trouble, not your fault man. like I said though, you are better off staying clear of weapons like that, and going and ordering a new one from a local shop. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kmoore 3 Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 Az, I noticed that CDNN is selling the 22 inch, full choke, no bolt hold open models again for 199. Vamp trust me, i can get them to hit me first Why do I not doubt this Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 hahah you know it. sorry if i seemed like i was insinuating that you would break the law. I guess that was a foul troll on my part. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azhunter 0 Posted July 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 Az, I noticed that CDNN is selling the 22 inch, full choke, no bolt hold open models again for 199. Vamp trust me, i can get them to hit me first Why do I not doubt this Who has the hold open? I wouldn't mind spending more green for that little feature. On anther note, what about putting one on myself? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 Mine came without the BHO (date is 2001) so i got one from Makc.(a long story but a happy ending). Except for the powder coat being too thick on the part that the pin goes through(scrape this area) it went in pretty easy. I use a ty-wrap to hold the hammer'cocked' while parts are out-it helps! This is a lot easier than working on the trigger group of my AR-7!! Go to the top of the screen and click on saiga-12.com If Makc isn't back in buisness,he soon should be! G O B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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