THE_HUNTER 2 Posted December 7, 2006 Report Share Posted December 7, 2006 I just got my new 10 rounder and the first thing I tried is the fit in both of my S12's.The older solid stock one locks up nicely but the newer folder does not want to latch into place.Any ideas?I'm looking at my factory mags and I notice the 10 rounder has a wider ledge to latch on than the factory ones.Any way I can find out how to fit it up without filing the crap out of anything and ruining it?Thanks! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kresk 10,063 Posted December 7, 2006 Report Share Posted December 7, 2006 Used to have that problem occasionally with the 8 rounders. What worked here was just filing a little off the underside of the front mag lip. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
THE_HUNTER 2 Posted December 7, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2006 Used to have that problem occasionally with the 8 rounders. What worked here was just filing a little off the underside of the front mag lip. Front of mag lip?I have the one gun liking the clip for lock up so I'm a little leary....It fits in the well no problem but the newer S12 just won't snap in...how much play can there be before there's problems?Oh,I need to contact AGP too because of wussie feed lips.I'm taking one off my factory 5 rounder for it for now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kresk 10,063 Posted December 7, 2006 Report Share Posted December 7, 2006 Used to have that problem occasionally with the 8 rounders. What worked here was just filing a little off the underside of the front mag lip. Front of mag lip?I have the one gun liking the clip for lock up so I'm a little leary....It fits in the well no problem but the newer S12 just won't snap in...how much play can there be before there's problems?Oh,I need to contact AGP too because of wussie feed lips.I'm taking one off my factory 5 rounder for it for now. Off the underside of the front catch of the magazine--the little plastic projection that you hook into the front of the mag "well." Quote Link to post Share on other sites
THE_HUNTER 2 Posted December 7, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2006 OK,checking out my 2 S12's side by side I have noticed that the mag catch on the offending S12 is not cut striaght across.It is slightly off so I think I need to file it straight across and that will fix my problem.Looking at the lockup on factory mags in there it just makes it.I see I have to drift out a pin but will the sprong go flying as soon as the pin is drifted?I really hope to get it back together when I take it apart! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
THE_HUNTER 2 Posted December 7, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2006 Well,my faith in these mags is shaken.OK,playing around with the S12 this mag does fit into I loaded up a clip of 10 slugs.I had replaced the wussie feed lips with one from a factory 5 rounder.Loading it into the gun closed bolt was a pain in the ass and the slug shell was squashed and deformed.I could not even cycle the action as it was jammed shut!OK,so i take out the deformed slug and only have 9 shells in the mag.Cycle the action and CRUNCH!I slug shell is rammed into a jammed position with the bolt still open.GRRRR!OK,I decided i would replace the AGP spring with one from a 5 rounder to lessen the spring tension.Here again,all I get is crap!How in the heck did all the guys here get there's to work! Also,the part I posted about earlier is on the S12 itself,not the mag.The mag catch on the S12 has a crooked cut at the end,not straight across.I figured if i could take this off the gun I could file it straight and then put it back on,hopefully solving that problem.I just didn't want to have a spring fly out to who know where.... OK,her's the newest.I have been able to play around with the mag and out of the S12 it fits in I can load 9 rounds and get them to hand cycle,with the Saiga factory feed lips in place that I stole from a 5 rounder.10 rounds with the bolt closed as the bolt will not open,just jam into the top shell.Any ideas how to fix that?If I hold the bolt open,and insert the mag,it works.Not quite the tactical loading way....plus I was hoping to get 10 in the mag and 1 in the chamber....shoots that down... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
THE_HUNTER 2 Posted December 7, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2006 Well,my faith in these mags is shaken.OK,playing around with the S12 this mag does fit into I loaded up a clip of 10 slugs.I had replaced the wussie feed lips with one from a factory 5 rounder.Loading it into the gun closed bolt was a pain in the ass and the slug shell was squashed and deformed.I could not even cycle the action as it was jammed shut!OK,so i take out the deformed slug and only have 9 shells in the mag.Cycle the action and CRUNCH!I slug shell is rammed into a jammed position with the bolt still open.GRRRR!OK,I decided i would replace the AGP spring with one from a 5 rounder to lessen the spring tension.Here again,all I get is crap!How in the heck did all the guys here get there's to work! Also,the part I posted about earlier is on the S12 itself,not the mag.The mag catch on the S12 has a crooked cut at the end,not straight across.I figured if i could take this off the gun I could file it straight and then put it back on,hopefully solving that problem.I just didn't want to have a spring fly out to who know where.... OK,her's the newest.I have been able to play around with the mag and out of the S12 it fits in I can load 9 rounds and get them to hand cycle,with the Saiga factory feed lips in place that I stole from a 5 rounder.10 rounds with the bolt closed as the bolt will not open,just jam into the top shell.Any ideas how to fix that?If I hold the bolt open,and insert the mag,it works.Not quite the tactical loading way....plus I was hoping to get 10 in the mag and 1 in the chamber....shoots that down... OK,I decided to load up with slugs except for the 10th shell which I loaded a Federal all purpose load in.I put it in the S12 on closed bolt and man handled the bolt back,let it fly home and cycled a round.The top of the shell cycled upon inspection was gouged open by the bolt sliding over it,or actually really through it!I'm calling AGP tomorrow.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
THE_HUNTER 2 Posted December 8, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 Well,my faith in these mags is shaken.OK,playing around with the S12 this mag does fit into I loaded up a clip of 10 slugs.I had replaced the wussie feed lips with one from a factory 5 rounder.Loading it into the gun closed bolt was a pain in the ass and the slug shell was squashed and deformed.I could not even cycle the action as it was jammed shut!OK,so i take out the deformed slug and only have 9 shells in the mag.Cycle the action and CRUNCH!I slug shell is rammed into a jammed position with the bolt still open.GRRRR!OK,I decided i would replace the AGP spring with one from a 5 rounder to lessen the spring tension.Here again,all I get is crap!How in the heck did all the guys here get there's to work! Also,the part I posted about earlier is on the S12 itself,not the mag.The mag catch on the S12 has a crooked cut at the end,not straight across.I figured if i could take this off the gun I could file it straight and then put it back on,hopefully solving that problem.I just didn't want to have a spring fly out to who know where.... OK,her's the newest.I have been able to play around with the mag and out of the S12 it fits in I can load 9 rounds and get them to hand cycle,with the Saiga factory feed lips in place that I stole from a 5 rounder.10 rounds with the bolt closed as the bolt will not open,just jam into the top shell.Any ideas how to fix that?If I hold the bolt open,and insert the mag,it works.Not quite the tactical loading way....plus I was hoping to get 10 in the mag and 1 in the chamber....shoots that down... OK,I decided to load up with slugs except for the 10th shell which I loaded a Federal all purpose load in.I put it in the S12 on closed bolt and man handled the bolt back,let it fly home and cycled a round.The top of the shell cycled upon inspection was gouged open by the bolt sliding over it,or actually really through it!I'm calling AGP tomorrow.... OK,I think I'm losing my mind.....I just put that 10 rounder loaded into the S12 that it wouldn't fit before and with a firm pull,it locks up solid!Only thing I can think of was there muss have been a bur or it just got plain scared!Hah!My only issue now with it is the problem of mutilation on the first round loaded in the mag with a total of 10 rounds...I also put the AGP spring back in after my experimenting... I still need to call AGP about the feed lips but will mention my mutilation problem..... Well,my faith in these mags is shaken.OK,playing around with the S12 this mag does fit into I loaded up a clip of 10 slugs.I had replaced the wussie feed lips with one from a factory 5 rounder.Loading it into the gun closed bolt was a pain in the ass and the slug shell was squashed and deformed.I could not even cycle the action as it was jammed shut!OK,so i take out the deformed slug and only have 9 shells in the mag.Cycle the action and CRUNCH!I slug shell is rammed into a jammed position with the bolt still open.GRRRR!OK,I decided i would replace the AGP spring with one from a 5 rounder to lessen the spring tension.Here again,all I get is crap!How in the heck did all the guys here get there's to work! Also,the part I posted about earlier is on the S12 itself,not the mag.The mag catch on the S12 has a crooked cut at the end,not straight across.I figured if i could take this off the gun I could file it straight and then put it back on,hopefully solving that problem.I just didn't want to have a spring fly out to who know where.... OK,her's the newest.I have been able to play around with the mag and out of the S12 it fits in I can load 9 rounds and get them to hand cycle,with the Saiga factory feed lips in place that I stole from a 5 rounder.10 rounds with the bolt closed as the bolt will not open,just jam into the top shell.Any ideas how to fix that?If I hold the bolt open,and insert the mag,it works.Not quite the tactical loading way....plus I was hoping to get 10 in the mag and 1 in the chamber....shoots that down... OK,I decided to load up with slugs except for the 10th shell which I loaded a Federal all purpose load in.I put it in the S12 on closed bolt and man handled the bolt back,let it fly home and cycled a round.The top of the shell cycled upon inspection was gouged open by the bolt sliding over it,or actually really through it!I'm calling AGP tomorrow.... OK,I think I'm losing my mind.....I just put that 10 rounder loaded into the S12 that it wouldn't fit before and with a firm pull,it locks up solid!Only thing I can think of was there muss have been a bur or it just got plain scared!Hah!My only issue now with it is the problem of mutilation on the first round loaded in the mag with a total of 10 rounds...I also put the AGP spring back in after my experimenting... I still need to call AGP about the feed lips but will mention my mutilation problem..... THE CULPRIT ON THE FIT PROBLEM HAS BEEN FOUND! The ribs on the outside of the mag was not allowing the mag to seat fully.When I jammed in the mag a few times these ribs got smashed down.Problem solved on that! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AegisDei 2 Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 Haha, I like this guy. He figures out his own solutions without needing much help. You might can grind the bolt carrier down to make it swallow that first round more easily. I think it might be linked in the tech section. If not, I believe the original tutorial was by StimpsonJ and maybe repeated by Wakal? It's nothing a little dremmeling can't fix. Keep the faith, and keep up the tinkering! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 Man you're havin a rough day. First, don't file on your mag, it's fine now that you got the ribs "adjusted"...lol. If you do anything take a dremel and grind the mag catch straight across. You can do it without removing it. From what I've heard and read taking it out and putting it back is a pain in the ass. I trimmed the ones on my rifles without removing them. I really don't understand your feed probs. I can put on in my chamber and load 10 on a closed bolt easy. What kind of shells are you using? Are they 3"? Aegis I believe this is what you are referring to... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
THE_HUNTER 2 Posted December 8, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 Yep,that's the part!I don't want to grind anything bolt though as I want the strength of the full sizt to be there.I am using 2 3/4" shells and that is what the #10 round in mag does not like.I used slugs of various manufacture and Federal all purpose loads(WallyWorld #8shot).Maybe the mag follower needs to be chopped a little off the bottom so the 10th round pushes down farther.I'm leaving the guns alone though.I know I will modify mags though as the guns work %100 with factory 5 rounders.Hate to ruin that!This site rocks by the way!Thanx for the help! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Crow 2 Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 I am having the same problem with hand feeding my 3" OO. I can load it on a closed bolt but it won't feed. I'm staying tuned for solutions. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AegisDei 2 Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 Aegis I believe this is what you are referring to... Yep, thanks Cobra! I knew you'd have it handy... Think that could help with the first round feeding problem? Or am I on crack again? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
inparidel 4 Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 Used to have that problem occasionally with the 8 rounders. What worked here was just filing a little off the underside of the front mag lip. Front of mag lip?I have the one gun liking the clip for lock up so I'm a little leary....It fits in the well no problem but the newer S12 just won't snap in...how much play can there be before there's problems?Oh,I need to contact AGP too because of wussie feed lips.I'm taking one off my factory 5 rounder for it for now. Off the underside of the front catch of the magazine--the little plastic projection that you hook into the front of the mag "well." The front lug has STEEL molded into th plastic, as it should considering the wear. Well,my faith in these mags is shaken.OK,playing around with the S12 this mag does fit into I loaded up a clip of 10 slugs.I had replaced the wussie feed lips with one from a factory 5 rounder.Loading it into the gun closed bolt was a pain in the ass and the slug shell was squashed and deformed.I could not even cycle the action as it was jammed shut!OK,so i take out the deformed slug and only have 9 shells in the mag.Cycle the action and CRUNCH!I slug shell is rammed into a jammed position with the bolt still open.GRRRR!OK,I decided i would replace the AGP spring with one from a 5 rounder to lessen the spring tension.Here again,all I get is crap!How in the heck did all the guys here get there's to work! Also,the part I posted about earlier is on the S12 itself,not the mag.The mag catch on the S12 has a crooked cut at the end,not straight across.I figured if i could take this off the gun I could file it straight and then put it back on,hopefully solving that problem.I just didn't want to have a spring fly out to who know where.... OK,her's the newest.I have been able to play around with the mag and out of the S12 it fits in I can load 9 rounds and get them to hand cycle,with the Saiga factory feed lips in place that I stole from a 5 rounder.10 rounds with the bolt closed as the bolt will not open,just jam into the top shell.Any ideas how to fix that?If I hold the bolt open,and insert the mag,it works.Not quite the tactical loading way....plus I was hoping to get 10 in the mag and 1 in the chamber....shoots that down... BE CAREFUL about filing the locking tab. IF the low end is at spec height, then you are golden, BUT IF the HIGH side of the tab is spec, then you have trashed your gun. be careful. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 (edited) Don't file the front lug at all. That will only worsen your feeding probs by causing the shell to dig in at the bottom of the breech. If you are going to file a mag (not clip*)so that it locks in easier you file the underside of the rear lug right where it engages the mag catch. The problem sounds to me like it's in the mag catch itself if you can visibly tell a difference. Don't worry if it has a little play. As I posted in another recent thread my tens fit tightly in my 00' model but loose as hell in my 04' model. It still functions perfect in my loose fitting model and you can move the rear of the mag up and down noticeably at the rear while it's locked in. After thinking about this some more I'll bet you money that all the problems you are having are from your mag catch being too tall and making the mag sit up too high in the well. That's why you had to force it past the ribs and that's why your'e having clearance problems with the bolt too. Edited December 8, 2006 by Cobra 76 two Quote Link to post Share on other sites
THE_HUNTER 2 Posted December 8, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 I just got an e-mail back within 15 minutes of e-mailing AGP on the 10 shot mag issues!Way great service! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Crow 2 Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 I just got an e-mail back within 15 minutes of e-mailing AGP on the 10 shot mag issues!Way great service! And what did they have to say? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
THE_HUNTER 2 Posted December 8, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Crow 2 Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vangcomper 0 Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 ".Loading it into the gun closed bolt was a pain in the ass and the slug shell was squashed and deformed.I could not even cycle the action as it was jammed shut!" I am having the same problem with hand feeding my 3" OO. I can load it on a closed bolt but it won't feed. I'm staying tuned for solutions. I also have this problem! I can load the 10 rounds in the mag, and load the mag on a closed bolt, but I can't cycle the bolt to chamber a round! New feedlips won't fix this! What is going on here? I thought these mags were tested? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 These mags were tested. I can vouch for that 100%. You guys that are having troubles like these must have something wrong with your guns. See my above post. I have 4 S-12s of my own that cycle fine with ten rds and I've also tested my two mags in two other S-12s, no problems. Hunter if your mag works in one gun but not the other what does that tell you? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bayoupiper 738 Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 I have to agree with Cobra. (Damn! Seems like I always do!) I have three AGP mags and they function flawlessly. I did like Hunter's play-by-play though.......... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z1500 0 Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 With longer shell you may have to load on an open bolt. The mag had to be made short enough that it could never ever ever ever fit 11rds with minor modification. Deal with it. If they had any more room inside to make it easier to load on a closed bolt, they would be easy to make fit 11rds and we'd all be screwed. Kevin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
expeditionx 1 Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 If they had any more room inside to make it easier to load on a closed bolt, they would be easy to make fit 11rds and we'd all be screwed. Kevin Why would we be screwed? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 Ahh shit here we go! Now everyone jump on Kevin and call him paranoid! BULLSHIT! You do that and you get warned! This is your 1st warning. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
expeditionx 1 Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 Ahh shit here we go! Now everyone jump on Kevin and call him paranoid! BULLSHIT! You do that and you get warned! This is your 1st warning. No flames on Kevin. Im just curious. I figured he knew something from his research. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AegisDei 2 Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 Why would we be screwed? From my understanding, Kevin checked with the ATF to be sure that 10rnd stick magazines would not make the S12 a DD. I do not know if he checked on mags that held more than 10, but 10 is the number that got OKed. Not 11, but 10: anything else could mean DD. Even if it wasn't checked on, which I seem to remember reading that it was, I believe there's precedent in favor of allowing 10rnd detachable mags. The USAS I believe had sticks which were 10, but it was the drum that made it get classified as a DD. It might have stayed cool if it had stuck with 10rnders, but going over 10 is walking on very very very thin ice. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 Sorry X, not trying to jump down your throat. That comment was directed at all the people who love to argue about things they know nothing about. I just don't want this to turn into another one of THOSE threads. It's a fact ya'll, no one likes it, it's still a fact. I hope Kevin does come forth and shut this whole stupid argument down once and for all. I'm tired of me and Bvamp being made out to look like the bad guy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
THE_HUNTER 2 Posted December 8, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 My 10 rounder doesn't work on a closed bolt with 10 rounds in it in BOTH GUNS.Not only one.I had a fitting up problem at first with the mag latching in on one but that is fixed now.Sorry for the confusion. As Reginal Denning said "CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG!" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunboy69 50 Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 hey Cobra I see you in here. I got my 10s,but Tonys got my gun. Is there fitting that needs to be done? Did I read that right? Take some material off or something. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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