Bullet guide help

[aurbis 1]

So I bought a bullet guide from Tapco (or was it Kvar?) and just attempted to install it.

 

Problem is, it is really difficult to get it to sit where it is supposed to! I tried putting it in from all angles, but I cannot get it to set right.

 

Is there a trick to this or something? I'll keep trying, but I'm getting pissed off and I might break something...

 

 

Edit:

 

I'm looking at some pictures, and the bullet guide is supposed to go beneath the pin that sticks out from the left side of the receiver. The bullet guide I have is too big, it is more than 95 degrees out of 360, instead of the 70-something that it should be. Am I making sense? The only way it wants to go in is over the top of the 'pin' but that would never work. Why did I get a guide that does not fit? What should I do?

Edited January 5, 2007 by hellgrün-K

[IndyArms 10,186]

you may have to take the dremel to the guide and machine away a bit of metal so that it WILL FIT up against that pin... That will probably be the easiest way to go about it...

 

OR you buy one of Dinzag's and it will pop right in...

 

 

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

THat's correct. The one from K Var has to be modified to work with that pin in the way. That's the one I have too.

[dinzag 31]

Yup, the mods are correct. You should be able to work with it.

If not, let me know...

[Kymasabe 1]

Don't waste any more time. Shove it in an envelop and return it and buy Dinzags bullet guide kit instead. Comes complete with drill and tap and takes all of 5-10 minutes to install, no fitting required. I'd highly recommend one.

While you're at it, buy one of his muzzle brakes as well...great fit, great product.

[aurbis 1]

Don't waste any more time. Shove it in an envelop and return it and buy Dinzags bullet guide kit instead. Comes complete with drill and tap and takes all of 5-10 minutes to install, no fitting required. I'd highly recommend one.

While you're at it, buy one of his muzzle brakes as well...great fit, great product.

 

I would, but I will be out more money (restocking fee, return shipping, etc) than I am right now for the item, so I'll just go with it. If I screw up, no big deal.

 

So how much should I grind it down? A tight fit needed or what?

 

I'll let you know if I give up Dinzag.

[Koevoet 0]

Don't waste any more time. Shove it in an envelop and return it and buy Dinzags bullet guide kit instead. Comes complete with drill and tap and takes all of 5-10 minutes to install, no fitting required. I'd highly recommend one.

While you're at it, buy one of his muzzle brakes as well...great fit, great product.

 

I would, but I will be out more money (restocking fee, return shipping, etc) than I am right now for the item, so I'll just go with it. If I screw up, no big deal.

 

So how much should I grind it down? A tight fit needed or what?

 

I'll let you know if I give up Dinzag.

 

 

The k-var bullet guide is designed for AK's that don't have the extra bolt turning rivet that the Saiga has.It's designed for the bolt to run up it's left side.Since the Saiga has a rivet there the bolt never touches the bullet guide so you you need to grind the side to clear the rivet.You can't really grind away too much from the side because it doesn't have to guide the bolt.look on the left you will see the rivet sticking in the trunnion.That;s what the bullet guide must clear.I haven't seen the flat bottom trunnion Saiga's but this is where the bottom screw goes.It may be deep enough for the bullet to seat in the flat without mods to the bottom of the bullet guide.It it's a round bottom trunnion you'll need to grind the flat on the bottom of the bullet to a round shape the same radius as the sides of the bullet guide.This looks like a lot of work.Hopefully you have a flat bottom trunnion.A piece of 3/4" steel pipe is easier to fit the round bottom trunnion.

[aurbis 1]

Luckily, I do have the flat bottom for my x39

 

Do I need a specific size bit and screw, or can I just use whatever I have? I have some 8-32 flathead screws, and some Cobalt drill bits. Do I need a tapper bit?

[Koevoet 0]

Luckily, I do have the flat bottom for my x39

 

Do I need a specific size bit and screw, or can I just use whatever I have? I have some 8-32 flathead screws, and some Cobalt drill bits. Do I need a tapper bit?

 

 

i've seen a few different hole size and thread sizes recommended.The hole in the bullet guide should be counter sunk.Use a tappered head screw.Phillips or allen head.Always use cobalt drill bits for steel.The bullet guide might be harder than the trunnion.use a Dremel tool to grind the side of the bullet guide to clear the rivet.Nake sure it fits flush in the trunnion.Mark the hole in the trunnion and center punch it before you drill.You'll need to clamp the bullet well if you want a counter sink in it.The original hole might not be bad though.I don't remember exactly the screw sizes but I think #8 screws popular.I'd start small.Maybe stick a piece of sheet metal or hacksaw blade in the receiver to tell when the hole is clear through without drilling the receiver sheet matel.

[Koevoet 0]

And yes you'll need a tap and a tap handle to thread the hole.

[Vermiform 26]

YOU ALSO NEED A CENTER PUNCH!

 

If you don't use a center punch and put a good sized "ding" where you want that screw to go, that drill bit could end up walking a few mm in any direction and then you will be trying to custom make another bullet guide that fits your hole. I have personally seen this happen with a drill press, not just a hand drill.

 

I would still reccomend a bullet guide from dinzag. He custom makes one for you that lines up perfectly and supplies the bit and the tap.

[dinzag 31]

hellgrün-K, your test guide will be on the way shortly. I'm waiting on hardware shipment.

 

I was told by one fellow the 7.62x39 flat-cuts didn't need a guide.

He swears his works fine. Can you verify?

 

Thanks,

B

[aurbis 1]

hellgrün-K, your test guide will be on the way shortly. I'm waiting on hardware shipment.

 

I was told by one fellow the 7.62x39 flat-cuts didn't need a guide.

He swears his works fine. Can you verify?

 

Thanks,

B

 

What type of mag was he using? Some vary by a good amount. Possibly if my mags had a slightly taller feed lip, but a big NO for now (even using FMJ).

[jgillaspy 24]

hellgrün-K, your test guide will be on the way shortly. I'm waiting on hardware shipment.

 

I was told by one fellow the 7.62x39 flat-cuts didn't need a guide.

He swears his works fine. Can you verify?

 

Thanks,

B

 

What type of mag was he using? Some vary by a good amount. Possibly if my mags had a slightly taller feed lip, but a big NO for now (even using FMJ).

 

I was using one borrowed from a friend w/ a WASR-10. The mag lip was level w/ the trunnion at the flat portion. I only had 30 rounds to fire, but all fired w/ out any problems. I am not able to do rapid fire, though. Minimum of 4 seconds between shots at the range I use.

 

I plan on getting several mags from Sportsman's Guide and trying those. I may still need a guide. I just haven't had enough ammo to test it well.

[Koevoet 0]

Here is some goiod info using a factory AK bullet guide in a Saiga.It mentions grinding the bottom round for the round trunnion.If you have a flat cut trunnion you should be able to skip that grinding.It has pics of cutting the left side for bolt and rivet clearance.

 

 

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=4&...=80&t=53631

[aurbis 1]

I tried a few rounds through each of a bunch of AK 30 rounders I got, no special $75 mags however.

 

There was one (1) mag that was able to feed a FMJ/SP round w/o bullet guide. But, here's the catch: It cannot chamber the first round or any other odd one (1st, 3rd, 5th, etc), only the 2nd, 4th, 6th, etc rounds in the mag. So, holding the rifle as if you were firing, the rounds that sit off to the left of the mag will chamber. I guess the angle of the follower or feed lip is slightly different than the rest of them.

[dinzag 31]

Hey Ax-Man, I will hook you up as well whenever you want it. I have your info.

(If you decide you still want it)

I don't think rapid fire will change things much, if it works, it works.

Usually hand cycling it fast will tell the tale. Let me know if you have problems when you get some other mags to try.

[jgillaspy 24]

Hey Ax-Man, I will hook you up as well whenever you want it. I have your info.

(If you decide you still want it)

I don't think rapid fire will change things much, if it works, it works.

Usually hand cycling it fast will tell the tale. Let me know if you have problems when you get some other mags to try.

 

 

Hook me up! Better safe than sorry. Please remind me of the drill bit size and type as well as tap size, so I won't mess it up.

[Vermiform 26]

Hey Ax-Man, I will hook you up as well whenever you want it. I have your info.

(If you decide you still want it)

I don't think rapid fire will change things much, if it works, it works.

Usually hand cycling it fast will tell the tale. Let me know if you have problems when you get some other mags to try.

 

 

Hook me up! Better safe than sorry. Please remind me of the drill bit size and type as well as tap size, so I won't mess it up.

 

Unless you already have some cobalt drill bits and a bunch of taps, you should just buy them from dinzag, he supplies them at a very resonable cost.

[dinzag 31]

You're covered Ax-Man, I'll supply them. Consider it part of the testing fee from me.

I'd like to offer guides for those rifles, but I'm not going to rush out & buy one just yet.

[jgillaspy 24]

You're covered Ax-Man, I'll supply them. Consider it part of the testing fee from me.

I'd like to offer guides for those rifles, but I'm not going to rush out & buy one just yet.

 

 

You are awesome!!! I can't wait to do some testing!!!

[Koevoet 0]

I had to turn on the way-back machine but it seems for a long time a #6x32 screw used to be the popular choice.Most likely due to the screw head size.Some of the "kits" people make now a #8 screw is becoming to choice.They may be reducing the screw head size.Also the drill bit required for the #6 is rather short and barely reaches.Also the thinner drill bit and tap brwak more easily but I still like to start small.Usually the standard head size on a counter sunk #6 is small enough without reducing it's size.If something goes wrong can always increase the threads for a #8.

[dinzag 31]

These flat trunnion 7.62x39's & 223's are being supplied with a #10-32 tap and a low-head cap screw. I've had quite a few guys who have had a rivet hole pre-drilled in the trunnion. The 10-32 is the smallest you can use for those applications so I've made all those guides that size.

 

The round trunnion guides are supplied with #6-32 screw. I am switching all hardware over to socket cap screws - flat-head ones for the old round-trunnion guides and low-head ones for the flat-trunnion guides.

[uzitiger 193]

I got a bullet guide at the fun show and had to grind it down to fit into my Saiga. Now I need to drill and tap the hole for it.

[longhunter-CO 0]

So I bought a bullet guide from Tapco (or was it Kvar?) and just attempted to install it.

 

Problem is, it is really difficult to get it to sit where it is supposed to! I tried putting it in from all angles, but I cannot get it to set right.

 

Is there a trick to this or something? I'll keep trying, but I'm getting pissed off and I might break something...

 

 

Edit:

 

I'm looking at some pictures, and the bullet guide is supposed to go beneath the pin that sticks out from the left side of the receiver. The bullet guide I have is too big, it is more than 95 degrees out of 360, instead of the 70-something that it should be. Am I making sense? The only way it wants to go in is over the top of the 'pin' but that would never work. Why did I get a guide that does not fit? What should I do?

 

I thought on a standard AKM that the slope in the riveted bullet guide enguaged the bevel on the bolt's ears. This caused the bolt to rotate into battery. SO I thought in looking at the pictures of Saigas that the post was rotating the bolt (since there was no bullet guide). Is that not true? Confused here.

[Koevoet 0]

All of the Russian AK-100 series have the bolt turning rivet.The ones that have a bullet guide this rivet passes through the side of the bullet guide.Bulgaria didn't switch to the two rivet bullet guide.Even if you had a two rivet bullet guide unless you wanted to remove the Saiga rivet you'd have to grind down the side of the bullet guide to clear the rivet so it works out the same using a single rivet bullet guide.

Edited January 12, 2007 by Koevoet

[longhunter-CO 0]

All of the Russian AK-100 series have the bolt turning rivet.The ones that have a bullet guide this rivet passes through the side of the bullet guide.Bulgaria didn't switch to the two rivet bullet guide.Even if you had a two rivet bullet guide unless you wanted to remove the Saiga rivet you'd have to grind down the side of the bullet guide to clear the rivet so it works out the same using a single rivet bullet guide.

My current Bulgy 74 has two rivets. I understood that the two rivet BG was an improvement over the single rivet design, not a nationality thing. Anyway. the BGs have a slope in them that turns (rotates) the bolt.

 

(Ignore the red lines that it pointing out to someone a modification to a .223 bullet guide (from milled weapon) to be used in a stamped receiver 74' trunnion)

( Also, the milled BG is a single rivet setup, probably relying on the flat milled in its bottom to hold in place)

 

Edited January 16, 2007 by Longhunter-CO

[Koevoet 0]

All of the Russian AK-100 series have the bolt turning rivet.The ones that have a bullet guide this rivet passes through the side of the bullet guide.Bulgaria didn't switch to the two rivet bullet guide.Even if you had a two rivet bullet guide unless you wanted to remove the Saiga rivet you'd have to grind down the side of the bullet guide to clear the rivet so it works out the same using a single rivet bullet guide.

My current Bulgy 74 has two rivets. I understood that the two rivet BG was an improvement over the single rivet design, not a nationality thing. Anyway. the BGs have a slope in them that turns (rotates) the bolt.

 

(Ignore the red lines that it pointing out to someone a modification to a .223 bullet guide (from milled weapon) to be used in a stamped receiver 74' trunnion)

( Also, the milled BG is a single rivet setup, probably relying on the flat milled in its bottom to hold in place)

 

 

 

The two rivet Bulgarian bullet guides are made from Russian made parts.I have new Bulgarian 5.45 trunnions and bullet guides and they only have one rivet.Many of the Bulgarian AK74's were made with Russian made parts.Some have even been restamped at the serial number but yes it doesn't matter where they are made.

Edited January 16, 2007 by Koevoet

[longhunter-CO 0]

The two rivet Bulgarian bullet guides are made from Russian made parts.I have new Bulgarian 5.45 trunnions and bullet guides and they only have one rivet.Many of the Bulgarian AK74's were made with Russian made parts.Some have even been restamped at the serial number but yes it doesn't matter where they are made.

 

Good info Koevoet. Thanks.