THE_HUNTER 2 Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 OK,question for all who modified their S12 bolts foe easier loading.How are they holding up?Any problems?Cracks?Do they work well now loading a closed bolt AGP 10 rounder fully loaded so you have 11 rounds in the gun?Comments?? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
oldandslow 3 Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 (edited) Interesting question, hard answer. I disassembled the bolt. Used file to remove material from the bottom of the "valley" to the end of the "bolt holder" (Actually, you remove material from the bolt holder, not the bolt.) Now for the tricky part: I don't know how precise the Russians are when it comes to boring the recess in the bolt holder that holds the bolt. And how consistent is the steel? All this would be no big deal if it was an AR-15. Screw up a part and just get another one. If you can get another bolt holder from RAA or one of their distributors, no big deal. To answer your question about loading a full magazine with a closed bolt, I have been successful, however there are a number of problems I've had. One: I have two Saigas, a 2001 model from EAA and a 2006 model from RAA. On the 2001 model the area leading into the barrel was beveled by the factory to assist shotshells going into the barrel chamber. On the 2006 model the area leading into the chamber has numerous spots where my shotshells were hanging up. I ended up beveling material from all around the area leading into the barrel chamber. Using a full magazine on a closed bolt, and hand cycling the bolt as fast as I could, I caught shotshells on every nook and cranny of the lead in to the chamber. Two: After getting the chamber lead in "beveled" to my satisfaction, the next adventure was getting the fastest reloads possible. I discovered that Winchester "Walmart Value box" 7 1/2 shot shotshells are softer than Federal or Remington. This makes it far easier to insert the magazine with the top shotshell being a Winchester. Unfortunately, Winchester shotshells being softer, deform slightly. This is OK if you are doing reloads during say, a 3-Gun match were you are running and gunning, however if you let it set in the gun for a while, it deforms more than slightly. Three: Remington shotshells are slightly longer that Winchester and Federal shotshells. I find it almost impossible to load a a full magazine with a Remington shotshell as the top round. And if I do wiggle and struggle to force it in, I deform the top round enough that is sticks slightly in the chamber and doesn't fully extract when being fired, causing yet another jam. After writing this diatribe about Remington shot shells, I decided to go back and try the same scenario with my 2001 model Saiga. (Trying to load a full ten round magazine on a closed bolt.) As I suspected, the Remington shot shells that refused to load in my 2006 model Saiga load just fine in the 2001 model Saiga. Russian quality control. This is why, we have different stories from the various contributors to this forum Four: After the horror story of the previous, Remington shotshells seem to have the best chambering characteristics if not used as the top round in the magazine. Five: This goofy adventure has lead me to the point that I can reload my Saiga in just over 4 seconds (aimed shot to aimed shot). I start my 3-Gun match stages with 1 round of Remington in the chamber and a full magazine with a Federal shotshell on top (I load the Federal shotshell more slowly than the Winchester which is no big deal during the start and it doesn't deform) and Remingtons in the rest of the magazine. My 3 other magazines have Winchester on top and Remingtons in the rest of the magazines. If I could easily get parts, I would probably cut the heck out of the bolt, until a "firmer" shotshell could be loaded as quickly with a full magazine as the Winchester shotshell load. Edited February 4, 2007 by oldandslow Quote Link to post Share on other sites
THE_HUNTER 2 Posted February 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 Good info!Thanx oldandslow! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
frr 1 Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 Ive seen other posts over time with the same type of issues. So in your opinion would the take home message here be that the Saiga-12 is good for 3-Gun match and range fun, but not very good for home defense and SHTF? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
THE_HUNTER 2 Posted February 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 It's my HD gun.I just wanted my 2 S12's to be loaded up with 1 round in the chamber and 10 in the AGP 10 rounder and function that way.Right now I can do 1 in the chamber and 9 in the AGP.Wish I had that 1 more shot! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mark78410 0 Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 I use mine for 3-gun only and it work very well for 3-gun I now have 6-10 rounders and 3-5 rounders. I made a gun bag for my shot gun and all of my mags and mag pouches. Ive seen other posts over time with the same type of issues. So in your opinion would the take home message here be that the Saiga-12 is good for 3-Gun match and range fun, but not very good for home defense and SHTF? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
THE_HUNTER 2 Posted February 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 Lets see a pic of the bag! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shaneman153a 39 Posted February 5, 2007 Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 I only have a 5 and 8 rounder, but I've never had the problems with shell deformation that others explain. I think the S-12 would be great for defense and for SHTF. Additionally, I had my 8 rounder with 8+1 under the bed for the wife while I was in Iraq, and had no problems when I got home. I took the safety off and fired those 9, not a problem. So I think they would be great for HD. Also kickass for 3 gun, cept the only other open class guy is Steve467. I don't think 3-gun's should have classes, except maybe cowboy action. Dance with the girl you came with. If you can't beat my times with your pump or tube fed auto, then I prolly have a better chance of surviving a firefight. Pardon the tangent Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Doc Shotgun 0 Posted February 5, 2007 Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 I will preface this with that I understand the desire for a higher magazine capacity, however IMHO, A magazine fed, semi-auto shotgun is the king of CQB, . It is PERFECT for almost any HD scenario. All you need is a Tactical flashlight mounted and YOU'RE ALL SET! Granted it only has one CLACK-CLACK (which DOES have a significant psychological effect), but that only serves to give away your position! Are we talking a drug raid on Scarface's narcotics operation, a solo assault on an insurgent safehouse, a home invasion/Hells Angles convention, a Zombie invasion or a crackhead intruder. If you haven't pacified the situation with 8 or 10 rounds of 12 gauge slugs or 00 buck, then do a tactical reload and shoot the zombie again! Body armor? Switch to head shots. You need to get more magazines, practice your reload drills and train, train, train...there is no replacement for trigger time! A shotgun discharged at close range, in a small room or hallway is almost as loud as a flash-bang. Use ear pro...especially indoors!! Don't say you didn't know!! Just my $0.02 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pedal2alloy 206 Posted February 5, 2007 Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 It's my HD gun.I just wanted my 2 S12's to be loaded up with 1 round in the chamber and 10 in the AGP 10 rounder and function that way.Right now I can do 1 in the chamber and 9 in the AGP.Wish I had that 1 more shot! Yeah, but if you had the 10, you would wish you could have 11. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
THE_HUNTER 2 Posted February 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 Doc Shotgun has it!I have the standard 19" solid stock S-12 with a tac-lite on it loaded with #4 buckshot,with 2 extra loaded mags in reserve. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kmoore 3 Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 To the original poster, don't know how many have actually ground on thier bolts, but it would be nice to get a report out. I looked at mine some time back, with a 2.75 inch load it didn't look like the area suggested to be ground would actually help, but I haven't looked at it in some time. I only have a 5 and 8 rounder, but I've never had the problems with shell deformation that others explain. I think the S-12 would be great for defense and for SHTF. Additionally, I had my 8 rounder with 8+1 under the bed for the wife while I was in Iraq, and had no problems when I got home. I took the safety off and fired those 9, not a problem. So I think they would be great for HD. Also kickass for 3 gun, cept the only other open class guy is Steve467. I don't think 3-gun's should have classes, except maybe cowboy action. Dance with the girl you came with. If you can't beat my times with your pump or tube fed auto, then I prolly have a better chance of surviving a firefight. Pardon the tangent Shane, it'd be nice to hear what your load was. I'd guess that 3" shells would deform more than 2.75. I'd guess that slugs would be less than 00 buck would be less than #4 buck would be less than bird. Maybe mixing the shells would help? Certainly the metal cased shells from Russia seemed to offer relief, but IIRC, they are becoming pretty rare = no practice supply. As for the 3 gun, realize that many competitors consider gun games to be more game than gun, thus they don't equate winning competitions to surviving real world encounters. There are certainly some rules/practices that would actually lower your chances of survival IF you were silly enough to actually do them (advance on 4 armed/fortified bad guys? I don't think so ..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stimpsonjcat 0 Posted February 10, 2007 Report Share Posted February 10, 2007 Mine is still kickin! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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