Shot Group Sizes

[ssullivan777 0]

What group size's is everyone getting?

 

Distance & Groupsize?

[BlackDog 1]

I measured a bunch of targets I did with my Saiga carbine. If you take 1 flyer out, then most of my 10 shot groups have been just under 4" at 100 yds. The 1 flyer makes the group a 5" group. The flyer always seems to be on the right too?!?

I haven't found a fancy ammo or a cheap ammo that shoot better than another.

Edited February 16, 2007 by BlackDog

[ssullivan777 0]

I measured a bunch of targets I did with my Saiga carbine. If you take 1 flyer out, then most of my 10 shot groups have been just under 4" at 100 yds. The 1 flyer makes the group a 5" group. The flyer always seems to be on the right too?!?

I haven't found a fancy ammo or a cheap ammo that shoot better than another.

 

Thanks, I was wondering if this post was going to just go away without any replys.

[BlackDog 1]

assorted ammos

no real tight groups

[ssullivan777 0]

assorted ammos

no real tight groups

 

 

Very Interesting stuff, Thanks blackdog

[ssullivan777 0]

You know for $240 for a semi auto rifle, It should shoot 1/4" groups from 300m.

 

We should call them Ruskie's up and find out what the deal is.

 

 

 

 

 

 

** Just kidding.**

[Ronald1969 0]

 

Shot this today at 50 mtr/yds, the size of the four-shot group is under 1" (20" barrel, 4X scope and Prvi Partizan 55 grn ammo)

 

Greetings,

Ronald

 

BTW I know I have to adjust the scope, but a PSOP 4-8X42 is in order so I'm not gonna waste any ammo on this.

Edited February 20, 2007 by Ronald1969

[Bad Bob 0]

What group size's is everyone getting?

 

Distance & Groupsize?

I'm getting 'minute-of-perp' with my .223 Saiga, at any distance where I can still use the irons (BTW, I'm a gray-haired-old-fart ;>). But if you want a target AND self-defense rifle, I would recommend ArmaLite:

 

http://www.armalite.com/

 

ArmaLite is a wonderful company (IMO), which employs wonderful people (IMO), that has some mighty impressive products (IMO). I have been %1000 (yes, that's "%1000") satisfied in my dealings with ArmaLite (which I can not say about Bushmaster). Although I prefer the AK action for various reasons, other folks have different needs (including the ability to put 5 rounds in a silver-dollar-sized target at 100 yards). If that's your ticket, go ArmaLite. Period (IMHO). Just be prepared to spend a bit more time (& effort, & frustration, & what-have-you) cleaning your rifle, than you would with any Saiga. (And I would also recommend stocking more spares - it's an 'AR thing'... ;>)

 

Call me lazy - or just practical - but because I don't shoot paper targets, I prefer my Saiga.

 

(But ArmaLite is still 'Ichiban' - '#1' - and still 'kicks @ss'...;>)

[ssullivan777 0]

What group size's is everyone getting?

 

Distance & Groupsize?

I'm getting 'minute-of-perp' with my .223 Saiga, at any distance where I can still use the irons (BTW, I'm a gray-haired-old-fart ;>). But if you want a target AND self-defense rifle, I would recommend ArmaLite:

 

http://www.armalite.com/

 

ArmaLite is a wonderful company (IMO), which employs wonderful people (IMO), that has some mighty impressive products (IMO). I have been %1000 (yes, that's "%1000") satisfied in my dealings with ArmaLite (which I can not say about Bushmaster). Although I prefer the AK action for various reasons, other folks have different needs (including the ability to put 5 rounds in a silver-dollar-sized target at 100 yards). If that's your ticket, go ArmaLite. Period (IMHO). Just be prepared to spend a bit more time (& effort, & frustration, & what-have-you) cleaning your rifle, than you would with any Saiga. (And I would also recommend stocking more spares - it's an 'AR thing'... ;>)

 

Call me lazy - or just practical - but because I don't shoot paper targets, I prefer my Saiga.

 

(But ArmaLite is still 'Ichiban' - '#1' - and still 'kicks @ss'...;>)

 

 

Thanks for the input, very appreciated.

[Bad Bob 0]

Thanks for the input, very appreciated.

Please don't take me wrong - in my experience, folks shoot best with the firearms they like, rather than some text book 'best firearm,' according to somebody else's opinion. I know a guy down in Texas who hunts antelope with a .30-30 Winchester, with iron sights. He has to pick his ground, and belly up on 'em, but he puts meat in the freezer every time he goes out. FWIW, I like the .223 Saiga a lot. It shoots straight, and cleans easy, and will last longer than I will. I like that. Some other guy, who wants to put 10 rounds through one hole, might prefer something else. More power to him.

 

Bottom line - if you like it a lot, you'll shoot it more, and become a better rifleman as a result. Whether it's a Winchester lever-action, a Saiga, or an AR. That's the goal...

 

;>)

 

Just my opinion, for whatever it's worth...

[ssullivan777 0]

Thanks for the input, very appreciated.

Please don't take me wrong - in my experience, folks shoot best with the firearms they like, rather than some text book 'best firearm,' according to somebody else's opinion. I know a guy down in Texas who hunts antelope with a .30-30 Winchester, with iron sights. He has to pick his ground, and belly up on 'em, but he puts meat in the freezer every time he goes out. FWIW, I like the .223 Saiga a lot. It shoots straight, and cleans easy, and will last longer than I will. I like that. Some other guy, who wants to put 10 rounds through one hole, might prefer something else. More power to him.

 

Bottom line - if you like it a lot, you'll shoot it more, and become a better rifleman as a result. Whether it's a Winchester lever-action, a Saiga, or an AR. That's the goal...

 

;>)

 

Just my opinion, for whatever it's worth...

 

 

Thanks bad bob, you are exactly right.

[Guntoter 0]

If you really, really want to find out what kind of accuracy your Saiga (or any other rifle) is capable of, it's been my experience you need a decent high power scope on a rock solid mount, plenty of sandbags so you can set up a comfortable rest, some clear easy to see targets, and of course the time and patience to get set up and do the job.

 

It's possible to shoot for accuracy with open sights at 100 yards but for most of us, even those with good eyes, it's damn difficult. Every time you have a flyer you have to wonder if it was the gun or did you move slightly. Even a mediocre shooter can hit the kill zone of most animals at 100yds with open sights but for determining accuracy that doesn't cut it.

 

Any rifle I test for accuracy gets a 6-24 or 8-32 scope mounted on it no matter how silly it looks even if I'm planning on using a 4, 6, or 3x9 scope on it in the field. Not only does this eliminate screwing with a spotting scope but I can tell the instant I pull the trigger whether or not I pulled the shot. On a really hot day heat waves will cause problems at 32x but I've shot on 100 degree plus days and never had a problem at 24x. I like to use a standard Redfield sighting target myself as it has proven to be the easiest for me to see the bullet holes and they are large enough that you can shoot a number of 5 shot groups before you have to change the target. I also use dime size sticky dots to give myself more aiming points and extend the amount of time between target changes further. You can get them at Wally World or an office supply place and at 24x there is a lot of dot visible even if your scope has thick cross hairs which most target/varmint type scopes don't.

 

Once you've set up like this, shot several varieties of ammo or handloads, and done it on different occasions to verify your results are repeatable you can be pretty sure what kind of groups your rifle is capable of. At that point you can slap a normal scope back on it, sight it in, and then be comfortable in the knowledge that if you shoot at and miss something by six inches or a foot it was you and not the rifle .

 

If you have to use open sights or a low power scope stick to 50 yards max and, theoretically at least, you can double your group size to get an idea of what your rifle is capable of at 100 yards.

 

One of these days I'm going to get out to the range with my .223 Saiga and see what it will do. It would be nice if it comes near my .223 Savage varmint rifle but somehow I think 1 hole groups are a bit too much to ask of it . Actually I'll be thrilled if it will hold them inside three inches. For a semi-auto military based weapon that would be fine.

Guntoter

[Bad Bob 0]

It would be nice if it comes near my .223 Savage varmint rifle but somehow I think 1 hole groups are a bit too much to ask of it ...

Guntoter

(I'm lucky enough to own a Savage .223 also! Dang thing surprised the heck out of me - it LOVES 50 gr. Federal 'plain-wrap' hollow points! I had expected it would prefer heavier bullets - and probably more expensive ammo, too, given "Murphy's Law." Call me lucky... ;>)

[Guntoter 0]

Alright Bob! Another Savage convert . I think they surprise a lot of people. At least the ones that give them a chance. I have never shot a Savage that I would call less than "very accurate" and they seem to be almost universally "extremely accurate" regardless of caliber. Even the lightweight barrel rifles seem to be tack drivers. I don't think you can get more accuracy for three times the price. After checking out Savageshooters.com I think we are members of a rapidly growing fraternity of shooters who have "seen the light"!

 

When I got mine I only shot one box of factory loads through it before starting to work up handloads. I think it was Hornady Custom Ammo. If I remember right those produced 3/8" groups. Mine seems to prefer the 50-53 grain bullets as well. I got the best groups with Hornady and Sierra bullets and Accurate Arms powder.

 

Since I don't have my reloading gear set up right now I've been thinking about trying some factory loads to see if there is one I could get decent groups out of for the time being. There has been a lot of improvement in factory loads since I bought it in '92 or '93 so I expected there would be several that would do fine if I could get them at a decent price.

Those Federals sound like the first ones I need to try. If you have them handy and get the chance would you post the part number for the ones you have? I live down here in BFE South and don't have squat in the way of gun stores so I will most likely have to order them on-line. It would sure help me get the right ones if you could.

The nearest range is 120 miles+ round trip so when I make the trip I have to go prepared to spend the day.

I try to stick with Federal brass anyway regardless of what I'm loading for so that would be a bonus too.

Thanks,

Guntoter

[IndyArms 10,186]

I have the savage in .204 Ruger... 26" fluted, stainless barrel, all the whistles and bells... Shoots like a laserbeam!

 

I love it so much, I gave up on my marlin .17, and bought the Savage 17 with the laminated thumbhole stock, heavy barrel, stainless, blah blah blah... and of course... the ACCUTRIGGER... I am amazed with a factory trigger that is so light and crisp and ADJUSTABLE out of the box... Thats the key Savage seller, I think!!!

 

and damn right, they are accurate as hell! :up:

 

[Bad Bob 0]

...If you have them handy and get the chance would you post the part number for the ones you have?

I bought a bunch a few years back, when I figured out they shot well in my Model 10FP. I don't have much left - but the few boxes I've got are labeled:

 

AMERICAM EAGLE

.223 REMINGTON

50 GR. FLAT BASE HOLLOW POINT

AE223G

 

The price tag on the box says "$4.99" - so you can understand how happy I was to find out they shot well (even though I generally am kind of a 'heavy bullet' guy ;>). Hope the current production works as well for both of us as the last batch I bought!

 

;>)

[Bad Bob 0]

... the ACCUTRIGGER... I am amazed with a factory trigger that is so light and crisp and ADJUSTABLE out of the box... Thats the key Savage seller, I think!!!

 

and damn right, they are accurate as hell! :up:

 

I bought both of my Savage bolt guns before they had the Accutrigger available. I ended up installing Timney triggers in both the .223 (set to a bit under 2 pounds) & .30-06 (set to about 3.5). They both shoot better than I do, and when it comes to factory ammo, they both seem to like relatively light bullets (50 gr. Federal 'plain wrap' in the .223, and 150 gr. Norma 'Jaktmatch' in the '06)...

 

;>)

[danny boy 0]

can't remember if I ever shot for group size with my .223, but my normal Saiga workout is 200m no optics and winchester 55gr fmj that I get from wal mart in 40 rd boxes. sitting on top of the shooting table (other guys at the range get pissed when I do this, damned if I know why) resting the rifle on my knee I'll put 50 rounds or so at a full size silhouette target and usually end up with a 98% hit rate.

Side note- If I can ever find a 10FP .308 in a left handed model its all mine. I hear way too much good about them not to get one.

[Guntoter 0]

[Bad Bob 0]

Edited February 28, 2007 by Bad Bob

[ssullivan777 0]

I have the savage in .204 Ruger... 26" fluted, stainless barrel, all the whistles and bells... Shoots like a laserbeam!

 

I love it so much, I gave up on my marlin .17, and bought the Savage 17 with the laminated thumbhole stock, heavy barrel, stainless, blah blah blah... and of course... the ACCUTRIGGER... I am amazed with a factory trigger that is so light and crisp and ADJUSTABLE out of the box... Thats the key Savage seller, I think!!!

 

and damn right, they are accurate as hell! :up:

 

 

 

I got me a savage .17HMR Std barrel, no accutrigger. I did the trigger job on it, and it shoots 1/8" groups @50yds.

[brin 0]

I have the long barreled .223 Saiga with a 3-7 Weaver scope. I tried a number of different handloads and anything over 55 grains grouped poorly in my rifle. I finally ended up shooting 55 grain V-Max with 24 grains of 3031. Five shot strings at a hundred yards consistently group out at a tad under two inches. That's what works best for me. Although I would be willing to try someone else's recipe if one comes up, for now I am sticking with the above load and no longer experimenting on my own. Hope this helps.

[Bad Bob 0]

I have the long barreled .223 Saiga with a 3-7 Weaver scope. I tried a number of different handloads and anything over 55 grains grouped poorly in my rifle. I finally ended up shooting 55 grain V-Max with 24 grains of 3031. Five shot strings at a hundred yards consistently group out at a tad under two inches. That's what works best for me. Although I would be willing to try someone else's recipe if one comes up, for now I am sticking with the above load and no longer experimenting on my own. Hope this helps.

Thanks! Nothing beats specific, real-world experience! (What brand of cases & primers do you generally use? Thanks again! ;>)

[Echo_Four 0]

Not to hijack, but those of you that are touting the Savage are dead on. Of course, I guess I'm an odd duck, because I liked the old trigger better than the acu-trigger. If you're like me, you would be happy to know that the Stevens 200 is the old Savage 110 but wish a somewhat ugly gray plastic stock. I picked one up just to play with and am in love with the old Savage style again.

 

For what it is worth, I don't use a bench or high power scope to measure my rifle accuracy. I compare everything to my AR (Bushy) and go from there. At 100 yards in the prone position I can usually get a one to one and a half inch group from the AR. With the Saiga my groups are usually close to three and one half to four inches. Either way, it is well within minute of man and will perform its job.

Edited March 16, 2007 by Echo Four

[ssullivan777 0]

Well, my group size's with my 4x32 BSA Scope are 25yds 1"-2", 75yds 2"-3"

[brin 0]

Bad Bob:

 

In regards to your question on the loads: I use Remington 7 1/2 bench rest primers, Winchester brass and weigh each load individually. My Saiga will eat any thing but it does well with the above ingredients and the 24 grains of 3034 along with the 55 grain V-Max.

[Bad Bob 0]

Bad Bob:

 

In regards to your question on the loads: I use Remington 7 1/2 bench rest primers, Winchester brass and weigh each load individually. My Saiga will eat any thing but it does well with the above ingredients and the 24 grains of 3034 along with the 55 grain V-Max.

Thanks for a tried & true recipe, Sir! That's worth its weight in gold!

[warriornfl1 0]

this was @ 40 yds, w/ British 62 GR. FMJ