How short can I make my rifle?

[Gandalf 0]

Once the Clinton-Feinstein gun ban ends and folding stocks become legal again, how short can I make my Saiga and still have it be legal?

 

I measured my Saiga last night, and from the tip of the barrel to the back end of the receiver it was over 25 inches. I figure that even a folding stock would still put it over 26 inches.

 

Would 26 inches be legal by federal standards? Or are the standards set by each state?

[mrapathy2000 0]

believe 26 is minimum federal length. you will have to go to your states government site and lookup the laws.

 

barrel minimum is 16" anything shorter requires $200 federal tax,fingerprints,register firearm either to corp/company you own or register to yourself with sheriff/chief of police signature for your county just need one usually sheriff no sheriffs office the CLEO. you give the atf permission to enter home anytime to check such firearm believe, heard it recently not sure if true suspect it is.

[emclean 0]

and check the state laws, they might be more restrictive than the fed.

[Gandalf 0]

Well I don't plan on shortening my barrel at all. In fact, I'm planning on adding a muzzle break. So if anything the barrel length + m.b. will be over 17 inches.

 

I'll check my state laws.

[vjor 2]

Mrapathy2000 says it is true, 16 inches minimum on sporting rifle, below 16

it is considered a destructive device by the ATF non sporting purposes, that means

you have to go into a lot of paper work and a fed tax on the gun, plus any law of the

city and state were you live, plus like a class 3 license the feds will visit the place

were the register address that shows on the paper work, were the gun supposed to be

store, that means if your house shows in the paper, well they can come and you have to say, hi , come in and take a look, no madder what time of the day or night.

Plus you gotten into the great grey area that is the ATF things change a lot when it comes

to laws and regulations for fire arms that are considered none sporting fire arms.

 

One thing if you go true all of this, well size no matters, your fire arm will be considered

a destructive device and conceal weapon etc.

 

And remember make it, all legal, fed prison is not nice, and yes they will come after you with full force.

Edited September 8, 2004 by vjor

[KySoldier 2]

below 16

it is considered a destructive device by the ATF ...your fire arm will be considered

a destructive device and conceal weapon etc.

A rifle with a barrel under 16in must be classified as a "short barreled rifle," not a destructive device. Also a pistol, like a Glock pistol with a stock, must also be classified.

[metroplex 0]

The way I read MI laws was that SBRs are prohibited and if anything require additional paperwork and classification.

 

The way the state law works is that if you have a rifle with a 16" barrel or longer, and a TOTAL overall length with the stock contracted/retracted/folded (basically in EVIL mode) of less than 26", it's a SBR.

 

If your TOTAL overall length with the stock contracted/folded is more than 26", it's OK.

 

My VEPR K has a 16.5" barrel and is probably more similar to your Saigas than an AK... and I did the measurements:

With a folding stock, my VEPR K most likely will not exceed 26" and therefore a folding stock is a bad idea.

 

However, if you have a contracting/telescoping stock ala M-4, it will be 26" or slightly longer.

 

Now, if you have a VEPR II (20.5" barrel), a folding stock will not put you under 26" so it's OK.

 

Check your state laws. State laws are almost always more powerful than Federal laws.

[Siagalova 0]

sounds like the british red coats being able to come to your house and stay whenever they want! or the nazi soldiers, raiding and storming your house whenever they want, except instead of jews it's your gun they have control over.

[Gandalf 0]

sounds like the british red coats being able to come to your house and stay whenever they want! or the nazi soldiers, raiding and storming your house whenever they want, except instead of jews it's your gun they have control over.

First the nazis made sure to take the guns. Then, when the population had nothing to defend themselves, the nazis came for the jews.

 

I don't like the pattern I'm seeing.

[Siagalova 0]

Yea, no bueno!

[Bvamp 604]

gandalf: a side note here.......if you use a removeable muzzle attachment, like a threaded muzzle break or a slip-on whatever and it can be readily removed, it doesnt count tword barrel length. you need to permanently weld it and pin it on there for it to count for barrel length. just thought id point that out, even though its kinda obvious.

 

even then its still not particularly clear to me how this law works. if one builds up an AMD 65 kit, with the 12.6" barrel and threaded muzzle, you still need to put the 4" barrel extension on it. you would think the muzzle attachment permanently welded on there would be enough to only have to use a 2" extension, but its not.

 

that very type of thing is the problem with the gun laws. nothing is a yes or no question it seems. I am thinking that SOME breaks will count tword barrel length, due to the bullet actually touching the break, like on some AR15's, and some breaks wont count, like the m16 flash hiders, which the bullet does NOT touch the muzzle attachment. it would be nice to be able to find the exact specification the law says, without having to dig and dig and dig and dig and dig and dig and dig and dig and dig and dig and dig and then have to cross-reference against multiple documents. I for one am tired of having a mild stroke each time i need to look something questionable up in the gun laws.

 

by the way? uncle sam can come into any of our houses without a warrant and search the place. know how? the DEC. if they even suspect you might have something toxic spilling into the ground, or something illegally stored in your basement, or that you poisoned the neighbor's cat or whatever....in they can come, and come in they shall. hell, they can barge right in if the gas station around the corner from you sprung a leak in thier storage tanks. and if they find that you have something else non-related that is questionable in your house? guess what? they can file a report and had it over to local law enforcement. (personally, if you are doing something illegal, i think you are asking for it, if you ask me) i would expect other agencies to be able to do this soon, and the only thing they will need to say for entry is something short and to the point. im picturing a generic statement like the miranda laws like when you get cuffed. so, im already practicing my "yes sir, come on in, do you want coffee? want to go shoot some guns out back or what?" line.

Edited September 9, 2004 by Bvamp

[Siagalova 0]

the Tax guys can too! no warrent no nothin'. Can't they?

Edited September 9, 2004 by Siagalova

[Gandalf 0]

Thanks for the info Bvamp. I was just thinking about how to secure the muzzle break (press on). Know what? I think I'll just find a short non-folding stock to put on and not worry about the length issue. I hate tip-toeing around grey areas of the law.

[mrapathy2000 0]

you only need bout 1-2 inch piece for a stock on ak to make minimum length. I myself am going to get a AR15 to Ak47 stock adapter and put on a CAR collapseable stock. doesnt fold to either side just telescopes down to 7 inches or out to 12 inches.

 

www.tapco.com $20 for car stock though only OD Green otherwise $50 though newer model

www.centerfiresystems.com $30 for car stock Black only

www.blackjackbuffers.com adapter $20 and car stock $30+ or $50 for both

[metroplex 0]

I don't think the AR stock adapters will fit the VEPR receivers but I'm not sure about the std AK or Saiga receivers (they probably will work).

[Bvamp 604]

just bought that very thing from blackjack for my SAR1, along with some other stuff. ill let you know how well it fits the SAR and i will check the saiga12 while i have it apart too, though i dont plan to use the CAR stock on it. should fit fine on straight backed recievers is my guess.

[Siagalova 0]

You guys, they're probably made of plastic - if you own a dremel, which most of us do - they can be shaped and tweeked!!!! if it's close, then you're in! the connecting parts are hidden in the receiver, so even if you want it pretty, it still works.

 

I may no know what I talking about, sometimes I do though!